What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

[timothyu]

Spiritual cleansing is the removal of self-serving ways common to the instinct of physical man.

 

[Dave...]

Do you believe John the Baptist was baptizing people with water? John 1:26
Do you believe Jesus was baptized with water?
Jesus' disciples were baptizing lots of people before Pentecost, but Jesus did not baptize anyone.
John 4:1 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Hey bling

I'm not sure what your point of contention is here. Elaborate on it if you have one. Right now I'm only guessing. Yes, all those verses say water baptism. Do you agree that Jesus did and still does baptize with the Holy Spirit in response to a genuine faith, which "places us" in Him, a spiritual "immersion" that makes us one with Him, the Body, the true Church? You'll notice that anything that I wrote that is between "quotation marks" are used in place of the word baptism, because they mean the same thing. Example....

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

My translation: For by one Spirit we were all "placed into" into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

another....

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

My interpretation: I indeed "immerse" you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will "immerse" you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

I specifically in my post: Water baptism is not a “requirement” for salvation, since God does the saving, but is something Christians get to do to help them and others.

Sorry, it sounded to me like you're playing both sides of the fence. So many today are wrongly taught that water baptism is what initiates the Spiritual baptism. If you're being water baptized, you already have faith, and are already spiritually baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit before you hit that water. Agree?

1 Peter 3:...In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
The water (and Peter is talking about real water here) is not to cleanse (wash the body), but the water (coming up out of the water) represents Christ resurrection.

Sorry bling, I disagree. I believe that the water represents God's judgment. That's what the flood was. "In Christ", our Arc, we are protected from that Judgment just like Noah and family were. It's a perfect picture of our Spirit baptism. Not the removal of filth from the flesh is just like saying not water baptism. Just so there was no misunderstanding.

Circumcision was not done away with (replaced) on Pentecost water baptism. Paul never said Jews should not be circumcised and/or baptism replace circumcision. I think we can agree John's water baptism stopped, so did Christian water baptism replace John's baptism?
Again water baptism does not save you, but does it help you?

Hey bling, the circumcision's comment was just a point of possible interest that I threw in there.

OT water baptism was simply identifying with a persons teachings publicly. That's all it is. A public testimony. That idea carried over to the NT. It pictured outwardly what had already happened inwardly as a result of faith. It identified us with Christ Jesus publicly. Some were baptized only into the name of Jesus because the Holy Spirit and the Father were already understood to be a part of them. The point of contention with the public testimony of these OT believers would have been the name Jesus. Others, found it better to publicly identify with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, since they were never believers in the OT.

OT believers were baptized into the name of the teacher they were under. Remember Paul confronting the Corinthians for arguing about being baptized by Paul or Apollos? It all came from that. The one true baptism is the one BY Jesus with the Holy Spirit. It's a spiritual baptism initiated by faith. Water baptism comes after that fact as a public testimony. Paul even finished by saying that "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel". That would be a very, very odd thing to say if water baptism had anything to do with anything beyond a public testimony.

1 Corinthians 1:12-17 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

bling, I've seen this with Catholicism before, they are not really doing what they are doing, and not really saying what they are saying. You're language just sounded very familiar to the kind of language that they so often use, hence the "playing both sides of the fence" comment. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Dave

 

[bling]

John's water immersion was an immersion of repentance, meaning it was symbolic of the Spiritual immersion/born from above experience we could receive from Jesus once he was seated to the right of The Father and granted The Holy Spirit.

Where are you finding in scripture: "John's water immersion was an immersion of repentance, meaning it was symbolic of the Spiritual immersion/born"? John's baptism was a covenant action to show a commitment to accepting God's forgiveness and turning your life around.

Water in reference to immersion is always symbolic of The Holy Spirit. It's just another step in following Jesus and His example He gave us.

How do you show: Immersion in water is always symbolic of the Holy Spirit, since the Jew immersed ceremonially in many ways?

 

[ARBITER01]

Where are you finding in scripture: "John's water immersion was an immersion of repentance, meaning it was symbolic of the Spiritual immersion/born"? John's baptism was a covenant action to show a commitment to accepting God's forgiveness and turning your life around.

How do you show: Immersion in water is always symbolic of the Holy Spirit, since the Jew immersed ceremonially in many ways?

These are basic NT understandings,.... why don't you understand them?

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

What are the spiritual mechanics of being born again?

I'll give my thoughts on this matter and we'll go from there. Just for the record, if I'm speaking of baptism, it's the spiritual baptism that I'm speaking of unless otherwise noted. I'll tell you if I mean water baptism.

If you ask someone what being born is, they're likely to respond with something like the wind blows where it wills, all from John 3, etc. But I think the Bible does give us some insight and that insight helps tremendously in interpreting Scripture over all.

When we are placed into/immersed/baptized into Christ, we receive everything at once, all the ingredients to be saved. Thus we are complete "in Him" and lacking nothing (Col. 2:10-14). This is the Church, the Body, that the placing into, or the baptism with the Holy Spirit spiritually unites us with. By receiving the indwelling as a result of our faith, we are placed into Christ, becoming one with Him. Setting aside the legality of our salvation, that is, being saved/delivered from the penalty of sin, the focus in this thread will mainly be in our being saved/delivered from the power of sin. This is the practical side of being saved and is called being born again, which not only frees us from the power of sin, but also allows us to begin to be conformed to Christ likeness (Gal. 3:2-3).

Being born again is the result of being placed into Christ.

When the Bible speaks of our being raised up with Him, or raised up in Christ, it's speaking of our being born again. When it speaks of being crucified with Christ, dying with Him, that is the necessary death that must precede being raised up with Him. When we are placed into/immersed/baptized into Christ, we're also placed into/immersed/baptized into His death, and raised up with Him, thus we are born again.

These are verses that I believe are speaking of being born again, though they do not use the typical language. These are all speking of the Spirit baptism, known as the baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.

Romans 6:3-11 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col. 2:10-14 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Gal. 3:2-3 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit (baptism with the Holy Spirit) by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? ---- *(added by me)*

26-27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized (with the Holy Spirit) into Christ have put on Christ. ---- *(added by me)*

Ephesians 2:5-6 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Being born again is simultaneous to being placed into Christ, also being placed into Jesus' death and raised up with Him.

The Bible tells us that we are saved/delivered through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe this is saved/delivered both judicially and being born again. But when the Bible speaks of being 'raised up with Him', like Ephesians 2:6, I believe that it's specifically speaking of our being born again.

Do you recognize this Scripture of speaking of being born again? Is this a metaphor, or does this really happen spiritually when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Dave

Yes, you are right that Jesus saves us "all at once". The "mechanism" that transforms us from lost to saved is that Jesus saves us (Rom 10:13). It is difficult to choose between spiritual baptism and spiritual birth as the specific means He employs to save us, but I don't think we need to choose between the two. We can see that receiving Jesus into our hearts is what it means to be born of God (Jn 1:12) and we can see that receiving Jesus into our hearts is what makes us baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27).

Spiritual baptism brings in the concepts of death because of sin but new life through resurrection from the dead (Rom 6:3). Spiritual birth brings in the concepts of being a new creation (2 Cor 5:17) and partaking of God's divine nature (2 Pet 1:4). But the end of both is the same -- being joined with the Lord and being one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17). Both concepts are valid, but they point to different aspects of the same event.

 

[Dave...]

Yes, you are right that Jesus saves us "all at once". The "mechanism" that transforms us from lost to saved is that Jesus saves us (Rom 10:13). It is difficult to choose between spiritual baptism and spiritual birth as the specific means He employs to save us, but I don't think we need to choose between the two. We can see that receiving Jesus into our hearts is what it means to be born of God (Jn 1:12) and we can see that receiving Jesus into our hearts is what makes us baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27).

Spiritual baptism brings in the concepts of death because of sin but new life through resurrection from the dead (Rom 6:3). Spiritual birth brings in the concepts of being a new creation (2 Cor 5:17) and partaking of God's divine nature (2 Pet 1:4). But the end of both is the same -- being joined with the Lord and being one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17). Both concepts are valid, but they point to different aspects of the same event.

NLIChristJesus

Nice post. I think Peter answers that question. There is a placing into that saves (1Peter 3:21). Saves pertains to both the positional and the practical, or the legality of it and being born again. "Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Receiving the Holy Spirit indwelling by Jesus as a result of our faith is what places us in Him (1 Corinthians 12:13). The results of that spiritual union can be seen in (Romans 6:1-11, Colossians 2:9-14) to name a few. Being placed in Him also places us into His death, and we are then raised up with Him, born again, as a result of this placing into Him. Anything speaking of us being "in Christ, or "in Him" is speaking of that spiritual union which results from our being placed into Him. That placing into is summed up with the phrase 'baptism with the Holy Spirit'. Or the placing into [Christ Jesus] with the [indwelling of the] Holy Spirit. It's that spiritual union that saves us. When we become one with Jesus, we have all the things needed to save us from that spiritual union, including access to His death and resurrection so that we can also die and be raised with Him, born again, and we also receive the imputed righteousness of God (Romans 10:4), and His atonement applies.

Do you think us dying and being raised with Him is just a metaphor, or does this really happen spiritually? Like when Paul says in Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ". Does He mean that literally?

Dave