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So, Is the Body Positivity Movement Still a Thing?

durangodawood

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....But people living in the USA don't have it easy maintaining their body weight, with all the added sugar, fast food offered around every corner and high caloric convenience food often being far more affordable (both in money and preparation time) than healthier alternatives.
Totally. Its an axiom of capitalism here that corporations should engineer and promote the most addictive sort of foods possible. For the shareholder, who is the most important consideration always!
 
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Nithavela

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Totally. Its an axiom of capitalism here that corporations should engineer and promote the most addictive sort of foods possible. For the shareholder, who is the most important consideration always!
In a way, the body positivity movement thus serves the same system. You don't have to look for alternatives to the cheap food that is sold to you and the havoc it wreaks on your body. Continue consuming and increasing profits.

And once enough people are fattened up, the skript is flipped, skinny becomes en vogue again and fat people are shamed into the expensive gyms, the premium diet plans and all the other ways of exploiting them to lose the weight they were exploited into gaining.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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For sure most of the problem isnt genetic. Tho some of it certainly is.

But to look at your map its probably not pure personal willpower either. Its most likely cultural habits and conditioning. And if you come up through all that it takes way more personal willpower to overcome than your average, say, Colorado person (like me) has to engage to maintain good eating habits.

In other words, they didnt ask for this, and are now as adults are faced with a challenge that could well overmatch us healthy coastal and ex coastal elites.

Otoh you could make an argument that either poverty or churchiness or race or just southern-ness are inversely correlated to personal willpower. Some of those you might not want to touch tho and are probably false anyway.

If this were the 1980's, I may agree with you.

There certainly was a time where "good ol southern home cookin'" or fast food were the only options, but that's not the case anymore.

My mom's one aunt, and I kid you not, still had an outhouse instead of a regular indoor toilet as recently as the 90's in Kentucky. When we went down to visit when I was a kid, I remember having some questions about that lol, now, there's a Walmart that's 15 minutes away from her house (and yes, she finally did get a proper toilet lol)

Walmart sells healthy food, and pretty cheaply. They just don't like it. Digiorno pizza and Tyson buffalo wings taste better than grilled chicken breast and green beans, I get it lol, but that rules out an access problem.

And while it's true that, by estimates, 11 million people live in a "food desert", and that's certainly something that needs addressing.
Per NIH. In conclusion, there was no significant evidence found supporting the idea that residing in a FD had a profound effect on increased childhood BMI status. In fact, the inverse seemed to be more probable.
(which makes sense, if people are so poor that they're stuck living in a food desert, they probably don't have the money to be getting their kids McDonald's 4 nights a week)

Meanwhile, over 200 million are overweight or obese. That means "lack of access to healthy food" isn't the primary problem.

I do still stand by my original hypothesis, which is that the lack of other forms of entertainment and "vice" leaves decadent eating habits as the few sources of entertainment and "things to do at get togethers".

That, and weak parenting, where parents are too keen on giving into their kids rather than being a little more assertive.

I'm not all that old, but I'm old enough to remember the era of
"We made chicken carrots and asparagus"
"but I want pizza!"
"Well this is what we made"
"but I don't like that"
"Okay then, in that case, go wash up and hit the hay and we'll see you in the morning"
 
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jacks

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About 1 billion people worldwide are affected by obesity, and the World Health Organization (WHO) projects that the number of people with obesity could double by 2030.

Around 733 million people faced hunger in 2023, equivalent to one in eleven people globally and one in five in Africa, according to the latest State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World (SOFI) report published today by five United Nations specialized agencies.


So is obesity now a bigger problem than starvation?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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About 1 billion people worldwide are affected by obesity, and the World Health Organization (WHO) projects that the number of people with obesity could double by 2030.

Around 733 million people faced hunger in 2023, equivalent to one in eleven people globally and one in five in Africa, according to the latest State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World (SOFI) report published today by five United Nations specialized agencies.


So is obesity now a bigger problem than starvation?

It shows the dichotomy between the "two worlds"

In the developing world (some would call it third world), they've struggled to procure any kind of edible sustenance.

In first world, they've developed the "Wendy's Baconator Combo meal", a 2700 calorie bomb that can be purchased with 20oz of soda for $9.


There's part of the world that, to quote the late great Sam Kinison, hasn't figured out to "move to where the food is", and there's the other parts that got way too good at making cheap fattening food.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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So the old saying "Finish your food because people are starving.”
Really doesn't make much sense.

I'm pretty sure some stand-up comedians have tackled that as well lol.

I forget who it was, but it was something to the effect of "oh was this shipment of green beans originally intended for Somalia and got rerouted here with the expectation that I'd be eating them all?"
 
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jacks

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I'm pretty sure some stand-up comedians have tackled that as well lol.

I forget who it was, but it was something to the effect of "oh was this shipment of green beans originally intended for Somalia and got rerouted here with the expectation that I'd be eating them all?"
Though apparently even though it made little sense, those that heard it acquired all kinds of positive traits. :)
HERE
 
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Nithavela

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I'm not all that old, but I'm old enough to remember the era of
"We made chicken carrots and asparagus"
"but I want pizza!"
"Well this is what we made"
"but I don't like that"
"Okay then, in that case, go wash up and hit the hay and we'll see you in the morning"
Sometimes, children refuse "healthy foods" because the food isn't prepared to their taste. For example, broccoli (famously disliked by children) has been shown to contain bitter flavour that children are more perceptive of then their parents, which results in the perceived difference in tastyness. Also, children are more likely to have specific bacteria in their mouth that break down the broccoli into foul-smelling gases.

So at least in some cases, children aren't being difficult about food because they want pizza. It really does taste disgusting to them. I know I wouldn't want to eat disguistingly tasting food, though I never was a picky eater as a child. So in those cases, I think a bit of understanding would go a long way. That doesn't mean to always cave into the demand for pizza, but the least one can do is make palatable veggies.

 
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Nithavela

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It shows the dichotomy between the "two worlds"

In the developing world (some would call it third world), they've struggled to procure any kind of edible sustenance.

In first world, they've developed the "Wendy's Baconator Combo meal", a 2700 calorie bomb that can be purchased with 20oz of soda for $9.


There's part of the world that, to quote the late great Sam Kinison, hasn't figured out to "move to where the food is", and there's the other parts that got way too good at making cheap fattening food.
A lot of people are trying to move to where the food is, but for some reason and in spite of the messaging of Sesame Street, the people who live where the food is don't like to share.
 
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Nithavela

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Though apparently even though it made little sense, those that heard it acquired all kinds of positive traits. :)
HERE
That reads like a horoscope. Just a grab bag that anyone can find themselves in. I do, too, and I wasn't raised on that silly statement.
 
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RileyG

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I question many aspects of the whole "it's genetic, I can't help it".

While it's certainly true that many overweight kids have overweight parents, the fact that there's regional and cultural components to obesity that are far more pronounced leads me to think that behavior is driving more of our obesity problem than genetics.

For the regional component...

View attachment 374006

It's not as if the people in Colorado are vastly genetically different than their counterparts 2 states away over in Arkansas.


Now, being someone who has half of the family that's Southern Baptist, and half of the family that's Catholic (with one tiny branch off of my Dad's side that are practicing Jews), this one I found interesting with regards to food culture.

(this is a little older, it's from 2008)
View attachment 374007

My extended family would fit this data almost perfectly.

My mom's side nearly half of them that are Obese, my Dad's side, not as many. (and the small branch of the family that are Jews practicing and following a Kosher diet all look pretty svelte)

We were raised Southern Baptist, I remember the pot luck meals that took place after every Sunday service and after every Wednesday night prayer meeting. (it would put Golden Corral to shame)

...and when we'd visit my mom's side of the family down south, I swear they wouldn't even touch a vegetable unless is was deep fried or swimming in butter.


My theory on that?
The practicing Jews stay thinner due to the stricter rules regarding keeping Kosher (things like Bacon Cheeseburgers, Bacon, and Pepperoni pizza are a no-go)

On the Catholic side of the family, they have -- for lack of a better way of putting it -- more "options of vice" (aka: they can have a few drinks at get togethers to have fun) ...whereas, in the strict side of the Baptist part of the family, no beer, no secular music, no watching movies, no fun video games... you cut out all of the things that are fun, what pleasurable experience is left? Eating.


Absent some extraordinary hormonal or medical issue, nobody, even sedentary, is bulking up to 350+ on a 2500 (or even 3000) calories per day -- given that the rule of them is to gain one pound of body weight, you need to consume 3500 calories over your caloric maintenance limit (and your BMR increases with your weight), I thought this was an interesting one to run through Claude's AI (since it's just a mathematical exercise) leveraging the Mifflin–St Jeor formula.

If a 30 year old was 6 foot and 180 pounds, they'd have to consume 4,500 calories a day (almost twice the BMR) regularly for nearly 2 years before approaching 350.

So this stuff isn't happening to people overnight. There are undoubtedly several iterations of having to go up in pants size over a period of years.
Not to go off topic, but it reminded me of a study where if a grandfather ate too many pot lucks at his church get togethers, his future grandchildren would be obese, OR the more overweight friends someone has, the more overweight someone is likely to be.

Correlation does not equal causation

Maybe all those pot lucks and Church dinners have something to do with Baptists typically being heavier than Catholics?

It’s a social behavior, after all.

I dunno

Thanks for sharing! This is quite interesting!
 
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RileyG

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Not to go off topic, but it reminded me of a study where if a grandfather ate too many pot lucks at his church get togethers, his future grandchildren would be obese, OR the more overweight friends someone has, the more overweight someone is likely to be.

Correlation does not equal causation

Maybe all those pot lucks and Church dinners have something to do with Baptists typically being heavier than Catholics?

It’s a social behavior, after all.

I dunno

Thanks for sharing! This is quite interesting!
Anecdote: my “devout” atheist friend who died in 2024, was morbidly obese for most of her adult life (300+ pounds). She was raised Episcopalian which is mainline.

Towards the end of her life, she became an avid walker, didn’t eat as much, and lost 120+ pounds, and even lost a foot size.

Sadly. She still passed away despite doing better.
 
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RileyG

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I'm sure some people gain weight easier than others, but in the end, you have to consume more calories than you burn. It's simple as that.

But people living in the USA don't have it easy maintaining their body weight, with all the added sugar, fast food offered around every corner and high caloric convenience food often being far more affordable (both in money and preparation time) than healthier alternatives.
I saw very few overweight people in Europe the three times I was there. I swear, most of the natives were in excellent shape, despite (from my limited experiences) all the eating and after dinner drinks I did when I visited.i wonder if that was considered a cultural norm? I don’t know.

Yeah, the United States definitely has something “in the water” as the old saying goes ;) you’re spot on!
 
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durangodawood

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My theory on that?
The practicing Jews stay thinner due to the stricter rules regarding keeping Kosher (things like Bacon Cheeseburgers, Bacon, and Pepperoni pizza are a no-go)
This cannot be. Theres too many equally unhealthy and addictive alternatives available to Jews.

If this were the 1980's, I may agree with you.

There certainly was a time where "good ol southern home cookin'" or fast food were the only options, but that's not the case anymore.

My mom's one aunt, and I kid you not, still had an outhouse instead of a regular indoor toilet as recently as the 90's in Kentucky. When we went down to visit when I was a kid, I remember having some questions about that lol, now, there's a Walmart that's 15 minutes away from her house (and yes, she finally did get a proper toilet lol)

Walmart sells healthy food, and pretty cheaply. They just don't like it. Digiorno pizza and Tyson buffalo wings taste better than grilled chicken breast and green beans, I get it lol, but that rules out an access problem.

And while it's true that, by estimates, 11 million people live in a "food desert", and that's certainly something that needs addressing.
Per NIH. In conclusion, there was no significant evidence found supporting the idea that residing in a FD had a profound effect on increased childhood BMI status. In fact, the inverse seemed to be more probable.
(which makes sense, if people are so poor that they're stuck living in a food desert, they probably don't have the money to be getting their kids McDonald's 4 nights a week)
So if food access is not the problem (and I didnt say it was) then habits and cultural conditioning are left as the most likely reasons for your map distribution of obesity (which I did say). And thats pretty much what you go on to describe.

Meanwhile, over 200 million are overweight or obese. That means "lack of access to healthy food" isn't the primary problem.

I do still stand by my original hypothesis, which is that the lack of other forms of entertainment and "vice" leaves decadent eating habits as the few sources of entertainment and "things to do at get togethers".
Sort of.... But the problem with this is that loads of healthy eating people enjoy food just as much as your Baptist potluckers.

That, and weak parenting, where parents are too keen on giving into their kids rather than being a little more assertive.

I'm not all that old, but I'm old enough to remember the era of
"We made chicken carrots and asparagus"
"but I want pizza!"
"Well this is what we made"
"but I don't like that"
"Okay then, in that case, go wash up and hit the hay and we'll see you in the morning"
I think we found the problem! The proposed healthy alternative being grilled chx breast and some plain sounding veg. Sounds bland and miserable frankly. Appealing food thats not simply fat/sugar/refined flours takes some knowledge and typically comes out of a deeper food tradition (like Greek, Japanese, French, North African etc).
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I think we found the problem! The proposed healthy alternative being grilled chx breast and some plain sounding veg. Sounds bland and miserable frankly. Appealing food thats not simply fat/sugar/refined flours takes some knowledge and typically comes out of a deeper food tradition (like Greek, Japanese, French, North African etc).
That was just and example, there's obviously other options than just plain chicken and carrots.

Left to their own devices, a lot of kids will take fast food even over those other deep food traditions you mention.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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A lot of people are trying to move to where the food is, but for some reason and in spite of the messaging of Sesame Street, the people who live where the food is don't like to share.
If you're referring to the immigrants from Latin American countries, I'd argue that they have food...and in many ways, food that's better than ours.

The Sam Kinison bit about "moving to where the food is" was referring to people living in deserts.

"See this? It's sand...nothing grows in it, you know what it's going to be in another 100 years? SAAAANNNND"
 
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Nithavela

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If you're referring to the immigrants from Latin American countries, I'd argue that they have food...and in many ways, food that's better than ours.

The Sam Kinison bit about "moving to where the food is" was referring to people living in deserts.

"See this? It's sand...nothing grows in it, you don't what it's going to be in another 100 years? SAAAANNNND"
I was referring to people moving from africa to europe, often crossing the sahara desert and the mediterranean sea.
 
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durangodawood

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That was just and example, there's obviously other options than just plain chicken and carrots.

Left to their own devices, a lot of kids will take fast food even over those other deep food traditions you mention.
Most adults wont pick the berders if they have experience with those food traditions. So I still dont buy the entertainment value of crappy food as the root cause here. Its what you were brought up with - or cultivated as adult that matters. The entertainment value follows from that.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Most adults wont pick the berders if they have experience with those food traditions. So I still dont buy the entertainment value of crappy food as the root cause here. Its what you were brought up with - or cultivated as adult that matters. The entertainment value follows from that.
To be clear, I wasn't saying that the crappy'ness of the food has the entertainment value, I was suggesting that eating a bunch becomes a void filler at social gatherings when other things aren't allowed.


For example, when I go to the weddings on the Catholic side of the family (who are less strict)

The reception is
- you grab few cocktails
- talk to some new people after the social lubricant kicks in
- maybe even hit the dance floor a bit

Eating is something of an after thought at those events

The weddings for the Southern Baptist side (and the other social gatherings for that matter) in my experience, were situations where there pretty much wasn't anything else to do but eat. Awkwardly sitting a table trying to make small talk with cousins I haven't seen in 3 years, going to hit up the buffet is about the only thing for "something to do"
 
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