What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

[Dave...]

What are the spiritual mechanics of being born again?

I'll give my thoughts on this matter and we'll go from there. Just for the record, if I'm speaking of baptism, it's the spiritual baptism that I'm speaking of unless otherwise noted. I'll tell you if I mean water baptism.

If you ask someone what being born is, they're likely to respond with something like the wind blows where it wills, all from John 3, etc. But I think the Bible does give us some insight and that insight helps tremendously in interpreting Scripture over all.

When we are placed into/immersed/baptized into Christ, we receive everything at once, all the ingredients to be saved. Thus we are complete "in Him" and lacking nothing (Col. 2:10-14). This is the Church, the Body, that the placing into, or the baptism with the Holy Spirit spiritually unites us with. By receiving the indwelling as a result of our faith, we are placed into Christ, becoming one with Him. Setting aside the legality of our salvation, that is, being saved/delivered from the penalty of sin, the focus in this thread will mainly be in our being saved/delivered from the power of sin. This is the practical side of being saved and is called being born again, which not only frees us from the power of sin, but also allows us to begin to be conformed to Christ likeness (Gal. 3:2-3).

Being born again is the result of being placed into Christ.

When the Bible speaks of our being raised up with Him, or raised up in Christ, it's speaking of our being born again. When it speaks of being crucified with Christ, dying with Him, that is the necessary death that must precede being raised up with Him. When we are placed into/immersed/baptized into Christ, we're also placed into/immersed/baptized into His death, and raised up with Him, thus we are born again.

These are verses that I believe are speaking of being born again, though they do not use the typical language. These are all speking of the Spirit baptism, known as the baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.

Romans 6:3-11 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col. 2:10-14 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Gal. 3:2-3 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit (baptism with the Holy Spirit) by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? ---- *(added by me)*

26-27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized (with the Holy Spirit) into Christ have put on Christ. ---- *(added by me)*

Ephesians 2:5-6 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Being born again is simultaneous to being placed into Christ, also being placed into Jesus' death and raised up with Him.

The Bible tells us that we are saved/delivered through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe this is saved/delivered both judicially and being born again. But when the Bible speaks of being 'raised up with Him', like Ephesians 2:6, I believe that it's specifically speaking of our being born again.

Do you recognize this Scripture of speaking of being born again? Is this a metaphor, or does this really happen spiritually when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Dave

 

[Dave...]

Both these first two OT passages are speaking of being born again, but still a future event to be realized. Later in John it's called the Promise of the Father. The Holy Spirit.

OT-EZ 36:26-37 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

OT-John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. (born again)" But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

OT-John 16:12-15 I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. (John 3:3 points to the same fulfilment, notice, they still cannot see).

OT-John 3:13-14 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, (Jesus must first be glorified)

OT-John 15:26, 14:25-26

OT-14:14-20 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever-- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Do you see it? Born again? A future promise. Aligned with the indwelling, that baptism with the Holy Spirit. The baptism that saves. See Romans 6:3-11, Gal 3:26-29, Col. 2:10-14, 1 Peter 3:21.

Jesus the prophesied baptizer by John the Baptist himself. Fulfilled at Pentecost.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Do you believe that being born again ("regeneration") is the result of the Spirit of God taking up residence within one (which is what I take you to be referring to as "spiritual baptism"), or is it the cause of the Spirit of God taking up residence.

In other words, do WE generate valid faith, or does God (the Spirit of God) generate it within us, fully valid? (The amount of faith is another question, not related to its validity).

 

[timothyu]

or does God (the Spirit of God) generate it within us, fully valid?

What would be the point? Can any father force a child to honour him, or must they learn to base their respect on their own discernment by comparison to others? God has been telling humans since the Garden to put His Will first, but we do not untill we learn why His ways are right and ours as a species is wrong.

 

[ARBITER01]

What are the spiritual mechanics of being born again?

You are immersed into The Holy Spirit, and The Holy Spirit applies the blood of Jesus to your fallen human spirit to regenerate it into the same likeness as the human spirit that Jesus has,.... hence why we are called brethren.

The filling of The Holy Spirit is a subsequent event after the temple is cleansed by the blood.

 

[Unqualified]

The HS may or may not happen to us with baptism. It is a sign of the cleansing God has done at getting saved. The HS is responsible for our regeneration though. Sanctification is a work of the HS. The infilling happens when we ask to be in filled. The Holy Spirit . The samaritans had not received the HS until Peter and John showed up. The did not know to ask. So they prayed for them to receive Him and it made a marked difference in them. They became full fledged brethren with the guarantee with the promise, with the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit. The fruits God produces in us. A changed life, a new focus, growth in the HS.

some kids do learn respect from their dads and not sparing the rod. That’s the way it is supposed to work. It leads to understanding oftentimes. That’s discipline. The ones who learn well young go the farthest in faith and are spared from learning late in life. A wise dad will teach the way so there is not so much disobedience. I ve seen it work. There is the way for those of us w/o wise dads.

 

[bling]

What are the spiritual mechanics of being born again?

I'll give my thoughts on this matter and we'll go from there. Just for the record, if I'm speaking of baptism, it's the spiritual baptism that I'm speaking of unless otherwise noted. I'll tell you if I mean water baptism.

If you ask someone what being born is, they're likely to respond with something like the wind blows where it wills, all from John 3, etc. But I think the Bible does give us some insight and that insight helps tremendously in interpreting Scripture over all.

When we are placed into/immersed/baptized into Christ, we receive everything at once, all the ingredients to be saved. Thus we are complete "in Him" and lacking nothing (Col. 2:10-14). This is the Church, the Body, that the placing into, or the baptism with the Holy Spirit spiritually unites us with. By receiving the indwelling as a result of our faith, we are placed into Christ, becoming one with Him. Setting aside the legality of our salvation, that is, being saved/delivered from the penalty of sin, the focus in this thread will mainly be in our being saved/delivered from the power of sin. This is the practical side of being saved and is called being born again, which not only frees us from the power of sin, but also allows us to begin to be conformed to Christ likeness (Gal. 3:2-3).

Being born again is the result of being placed into Christ.

When the Bible speaks of our being raised up with Him, or raised up in Christ, it's speaking of our being born again. When it speaks of being crucified with Christ, dying with Him, that is the necessary death that must precede being raised up with Him. When we are placed into/immersed/baptized into Christ, we're also placed into/immersed/baptized into His death, and raised up with Him, thus we are born again.

These are verses that I believe are speaking of being born again, though they do not use the typical language. These are all speking of the Spirit baptism, known as the baptism with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.

Romans 6:3-11 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col. 2:10-14 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Gal. 3:2-3 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit (baptism with the Holy Spirit) by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? ---- *(added by me)*

26-27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized (with the Holy Spirit) into Christ have put on Christ. ---- *(added by me)*

Ephesians 2:5-6 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Being born again is simultaneous to being placed into Christ, also being placed into Jesus' death and raised up with Him.

The Bible tells us that we are saved/delivered through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe this is saved/delivered both judicially and being born again. But when the Bible speaks of being 'raised up with Him', like Ephesians 2:6, I believe that it's specifically speaking of our being born again.

Do you recognize this Scripture of speaking of being born again? Is this a metaphor, or does this really happen spiritually when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Dave

I fully agree with the idea of the indwelling Holy Spirit being our guarantee of God fulfilling all of his other promises.

I also believe prior to being “born again” we do not have Godly type Love and the only way we obtain this gift is by humbly accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness as pure undeserved charity (Luke 7) We have to accept being forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt to automatically obtain and unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love).

I think your missing the reason and value to water baptism:

New Christians may not tap into everything that is available to them to help them experience the transformation:

I do not know of any Christian group, who believe the water itself saves you, since all believe it is God who saves and God is not limited by water.

Water baptism is not a “requirement” for salvation, since God does the saving, but is something Christians get to do to help them and others.

I know that I needed everything God could provide to assure me of my conversion, both outwardly and mentally. God wants you to physically feel the experience of what is going on Spiritually.

You would like to add to your conversion a definite time place and physical experience, which God has provided for you.

Adult believers water immersion is to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.

Christian Baptism replaced John’s Baptism and not circumcision, since circumcision went on at the same time as John’s baptism and it is not in the Bible where, Jewish Christians cease circumcising their boy children after baptism became available. Circumcision was a physical visible daily reminder to all Jewish boys and men that they were a Jew. The indwelling Holy Spirit is our literal daily reminder that we are Christians. The indwelling Holy Spirit replaced circumcision and is for both men and women.

 

[tturt]

Agree that Spirit baptism is different from the baptism when we're born again and of course, water baptism.

There's 3 main Biblical baptisms, immersions. All 3 persons of the Godhead involved each baptism.
1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus reconcilng us to God (at salvation). By this iimmersion we are a new creature in Christ (ii Cor 5:17).
2- By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit and comes upon us (The Spirit baptism)
3 - By another believer. Matt 28:18-20, Accounts of Jesus' baptism in Matt, Mark, Luke and John. We're to follow His example He only did what The Father said. Joh 3:5-6, 5:19

" I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire " (Matt 3:11) Mark 1:8, Luk 3:16, Joh 1:33, Acts 1:5,
8:14-17, 10:44-48, 11:16)

This is when the Holy Spirit comes upon us and endures us with power for service to Him and to keep His Word

"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luk 24:49

"And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." Acts 4:31

"And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." I John 3:24

 

[Mark Quayle]

Mark Quayle said:
Do you believe that being born again ("regeneration") is the result of the Spirit of God taking up residence within one (which is what I take you to be referring to as "spiritual baptism"), or is it the cause of the Spirit of God taking up residence.

In other words, do WE generate valid faith, or does God (the Spirit of God) generate it within us, fully valid? (The amount of faith is another question, not related to its validity).

What would be the point? Can any father force a child to honour him, or must they learn to base their respect on their own discernment by comparison to others? God has been telling humans since the Garden to put His Will first, but we do not untill we learn why His ways are right and ours as a species is wrong.

Comparing God with our earthly fathers is an invalid argument in this. We did not create our kids. We did not impute Adam's sin to them. We did not indwell them with our spirit. We did not make a place for them in heaven. They do not exist for our purposes.

God has been telling humans their moral responsibility since the Garden. But they have always been unable to obey until he regenerates them. (See Romans 8, the whole chapter, and notice the language of verses 7 and 8. They CANNOT. They consistently, always, choose in enmity against God.) The command to be holy does not imply the ability to do so. "His Will" as you call it, is given us to show us our need for him. We learn to obey AFTER he changes our nature from 'death' to 'life'.

THAT is Grace. "Learning his ways" cannot earn us the right to become his children, no matter the terminology or poetry with which the concept is stated.

 

[Dave...]

Do you believe that being born again ("regeneration") is the result of the Spirit of God taking up residence within one (which is what I take you to be referring to as "spiritual baptism"), or is it the cause of the Spirit of God taking up residence.

In other words, do WE generate valid faith, or does God (the Spirit of God) generate it within us, fully valid? (The amount of faith is another question, not related to its validity).

Hey Mark

I believe that being born again is the result of the indwelling. If the initial faith is Spirit powered, it's not from being born again. The "life" given by the Author/Prince/......(Acts 3:15), same word for "Author" in Hebrews 11:2 "Author and finisher of our faith" is the result of the indwelling (Galatians 3:2-3, Ephesians 1:13-14.) In other words, the Spirit empowered life begins when we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. In the OT, they believed, but did not have the Spirit in them (John 7:38-39). If you have the Spirit of Christ in you, you already belong to Him. If you don't have the Spirit of Christ in you, you don't (Romans 8:9).

Today, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is simply means receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a result of our initial faith. When we come to Jesus in faith, He places Himself in us by way of the Holy Spirit. It's a spiritual immersion/placing into that that makes us one with Him, placing us "in Him". Thus, the baptism [placing into] with the Holy Spirit is placing us "in Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:13). Placing us in the Body, the one true Church, A spiritual Body. At that point the Spirit powered 'life' begins of which Jesus is the Author of.

The initial faith could come from many places, including the flesh which can desire something good (Romans 7:18). The flesh cannot do good by righteous standards. Only the Fruit of the Spirit is righteous. The initial faith could be from the Holy Spirit being upon a person, like in the OT, but that was only to perform certain tasks, not to believe. It could be the presence of God, like in the OT, the Tabernacle, the Arc of the Covenant, the Temple, and Jesus Himself (OT John 12:35-36). Remember, we all have that presence of God with us when we evangelize as each believer now is a Temple of the Holy Spirit. I believe this is the reason why evangelizing the world had to wait for Pentecost when the indwelling was given (John 12:32).

Dave

 

[Dave...]

The filling of The Holy Spirit is a subsequent event after the temple is cleansed by the blood.

Hey ARBITOR)!

I like the way you worded that. I always tell people that promises don't cleanse Temples, blood does, with regards to the fact that only NT believers are called Temples of the Holy Spirit. That's one reason why the baptism with the Holy Spirit had to wait for the cross.

 

[Dave...]

The HS may or may not happen to us with baptism. It is a sign of the cleansing God has done at getting saved. The HS is responsible for our regeneration though. Sanctification is a work of the HS. The infilling happens when we ask to be in filled. The Holy Spirit . The samaritans had not received the HS until Peter and John showed up. The did not know to ask. So they prayed for them to receive Him and it made a marked difference in them. They became full fledged brethren with the guarantee with the promise, with the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit. The fruits God produces in us. A changed life, a new focus, growth in the HS.

some kids do learn respect from their dads and not sparing the rod. That’s the way it is supposed to work. It leads to understanding oftentimes. That’s discipline. The ones who learn well young go the farthest in faith and are spared from learning late in life. A wise dad will teach the way so there is not so much disobedience. I ve seen it work. There is the way for those of us w/o wise dads.

Hey Unqualified.

check post #9 in this thread. The quote at the bottom of that post with regards to Peter and John.

The New Testament begins in Acts not Matthew chapter one.

The New Testament Begins in Acts Not Matthew When you read the Gospels in the Bible, such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, do they sometimes seem to contradict other parts of the New Testament Scripture? For example, in Matthew 6:15, Jesus said, “If you refuse to forgive others, your Father...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Dave...]

I fully agree with the idea of the indwelling Holy Spirit being our guarantee of God fulfilling all of his other promises.

I also believe prior to being “born again” we do not have Godly type Love and the only way we obtain this gift is by humbly accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness as pure undeserved charity (Luke 7) We have to accept being forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt to automatically obtain and unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love).

I think your missing the reason and value to water baptism:

New Christians may not tap into everything that is available to them to help them experience the transformation:

I do not know of any Christian group, who believe the water itself saves you, since all believe it is God who saves and God is not limited by water.

Water baptism is not a “requirement” for salvation, since God does the saving, but is something Christians get to do to help them and others.

I know that I needed everything God could provide to assure me of my conversion, both outwardly and mentally. God wants you to physically feel the experience of what is going on Spiritually.

You would like to add to your conversion a definite time place and physical experience, which God has provided for you.

Adult believers water immersion is to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.

Christian Baptism replaced John’s Baptism and not circumcision, since circumcision went on at the same time as John’s baptism and it is not in the Bible where, Jewish Christians cease circumcising their boy children after baptism became available. Circumcision was a physical visible daily reminder to all Jewish boys and men that they were a Jew. The indwelling Holy Spirit is our literal daily reminder that we are Christians. The indwelling Holy Spirit replaced circumcision and is for both men and women.

Hey bling.

It's important to note that the word baptism simply means to place into, or immerse. I think a mistake that many people make today is that they assume water into the definition of the word baptize. I baptize my French fries with catchup, but catchup is not any more part of the definition of the word baptize than water is. Many times the context will explain what that agent is, or who the baptizer is, like Matthew 3:11. Jesus is the baptizer, and the Holy Spirit is the Agent of that baptism.

Peter in 1 Peter 3:21 made it a point to contrast the "type" water baptism, with the "antitype", or real thing, that being Spirit baptism. The agent of the baptism that saves is the Holy Spirit, rather than water, which is, as you noted, just a symbolic public display of an inward reality that has already taken place. Some people at this point will claim that the water baptism initiates the Spirit baptism, but that's not true either. It's a baptism by faith, as Paul noted over and over in Galatians 3.

R.C. Sproul believes that water baptism replaced circumcision. It sounds right but I don't really know. The types only point to the spiritual truths. unfortunately, when a person is not seeing the spiritual truths, for whatever reason, they sometimes try to apply the power to the types, and not the truths that those types point to. False teachers do this all the time, knowing that many people who cannot see will fall for these things.

 

[Dave...]

Agree that Spirit baptism is different from the baptism when we're born again and of course, water baptism.

There's 3 main Biblical baptisms, immersions. All 3 persons of the Godhead involved each baptism.
1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus reconcilng us to God (at salvation). By this iimmersion we are a new creature in Christ (ii Cor 5:17).
2- By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit and comes upon us (The Spirit baptism)
3 - By another believer. Matt 28:18-20, Accounts of Jesus' baptism in Matt, Mark, Luke and John. We're to follow His example He only did what The Father said. Joh 3:5-6, 5:19

" I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire " (Matt 3:11) Mark 1:8, Luk 3:16, Joh 1:33, Acts 1:5,
8:14-17, 10:44-48, 11:16)

This is when the Holy Spirit comes upon us and endures us with power for service to Him and to keep His Word

"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luk 24:49

"And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." Acts 4:31

"And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." I John 3:24

Hey tturt:

I believe that the Spirit baptism that you have listed 2nd is the same as the one that you have listed in 1st. Jesus is always the baptizer, and the Holy Spirit is the agent of His baptism. The Promise of the Father given in Acts is the same indwelling that a believer today gets when he or she first believes. It's just that there was a unique point in time in history when believers were owed that promise, but had to wait for the cross. The Holy Spirit didn't dwell in believers until there was blood to cleanse the Temple, that being us, Temples of the Holy Spirit. Even if He could, there were no ingredients to save us.

I try to always make a mental note of each passage, and the point in history when it happened, either before of after the cross. If it's before the cross, it's OT. If it's after, it's NT. Remember, Jesus said that He must ascend before He could give that Promise. That's a promise that goes all the way back to Ezekiel 36:26-27. Still future in John 7:38-39. From the second post.

 

[timothyu]

Using the thinking of the time when Jesus spoke of being born again,, the Jews knew that being born of water meant the coming out of Egypt at the crossing of the Red Sea to become set free, and once again the Jordan. That was the old with the new being coming out of this world into the Kingdom, abandoning the traditional will of man for the Will of the Father. This was the basis of repentance/change. No longer self focused as we had been since discovering self in the Garden, but loving all as self. No longer serving self in survival of the fittest, but serving all in providing for life, thus serving the Will of God. His Will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

 

[bling]

Hey bling.

It's important to note that the word baptism simply means to place into, or immerse. I think a mistake that many people make today is that they assume water into the definition of the word baptize. I baptize my French fries with catchup, but catchup is not any more part of the definition of the word baptize than water is. Many times the context will explain what that agent is, or who the baptizer is, like Matthew 3:11. Jesus is the baptizer, and the Holy Spirit is the Agent of that baptism.

Do you believe John the Baptist was baptizing people with water? John 1:26
Do you believe Jesus was baptized with water?
Jesus' disciples were baptizing lots of people before Pentecost, but Jesus did not baptize anyone.
John 4:1 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Peter in 1 Peter 3:21 made it a point to contrast the "type" water baptism, with the "antitype", or real thing, that being Spirit baptism. The agent of the baptism that saves is the Holy Spirit, rather than water, which is, as you noted, just a symbolic public display of an inward reality that has already taken place. Some people at this point will claim that the water baptism initiates the Spirit baptism, but that's not true either. It's a baptism by faith, as Paul noted over and over in Galatians 3.

I specifically in my post: Water baptism is not a “requirement” for salvation, since God does the saving, but is something Christians get to do to help them and others.
1 Peter 3:...In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
The water (and Peter is talking about real water here) is not to cleanse (wash the body), but the water (coming up out of the water) represents Christ resurrection.

R.C. Sproul believes that water baptism replaced circumcision. It sounds right but I don't really know. The types only point to the spiritual truths. unfortunately, when a person is not seeing the spiritual truths, for whatever reason, they sometimes try to apply the power to the types, and not the truths that those types point to. False teachers do this all the time, knowing that many people who cannot see will fall for these things.

Circumcision was not done away with (replaced) on Pentecost water baptism. Paul never said Jews should not be circumcised and/or baptism replace circumcision. I think we can agree John's water baptism stopped, so did Christian water baptism replace John's baptism?
Again water baptism does not save you, but does it help you?