Now does everyone understand why the "right to refuse illegal orders" video was made?

[iluvatar5150]

Why are you trying to discuss these things if you have no idea what anyone is talking about without them spoon feeding it to you?

 

[MarcusGregor]

Hegseth cites 'fog of war' in defending follow-on strike on alleged drug boat

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth cited the “fog of war” in defending a follow-up strike on an alleged drug-carrying boat in the Caribbean Sea earlier this year.

apnews.com

Fog of... something.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Like... Do you guys watch\read the news or go anywhere on the internet other than these forums? Why are you trying to discuss these things if you have no idea what anyone is talking about without them spoon feeding it to you? You're at least the third poster I've seen ask for "proof" or evidence of things that have been clearly confirmed to be true and all over media.

Nope. I live in a chocolate factory.

 

[Bradskii]

Hegseth cites 'fog of war' in defending follow-on strike on alleged drug boat

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth cited the “fog of war” in defending a follow-up strike on an alleged drug-carrying boat in the Caribbean Sea earlier this year.

apnews.com

Fog of... something.

From the link:

'Hegseth said he did not see any survivors in the water, saying the vessel “exploded in fire, smoke, you can’t see anything. ... This is called the fog of war.”

The man is an idiot.

 

[Belk]

From the link:

'Hegseth said he did not see any survivors in the water, saying the vessel “exploded in fire, smoke, you can’t see anything. ... This is called the fog of war.”

The man is an idiot.

Makes them easier to throw under the bus when Trump is through with them.

 

[Say it aint so]

From the link:

'Hegseth said he did not see any survivors in the water, saying the vessel “exploded in fire, smoke, you can’t see anything. ... This is called the fog of war.”

The man is an idiot.

Yes he is an idiot. And he is emblematic of this whole admin. They claim the US is in war against Narco terrorists. There was one strike where they didn't manage to kill everyone on board. They scooped up the survivors. Did they send them to Gitmo? Because you know that's what becomes of enemy combatants. No, they didn't. They released them back home. Why did they do that? I am not a lawyer, but it seems those in Gitmo are afforded lawyers. I kind of think they didn't want those who survived accessible to divulge who they actually were, or weren't.

 

[Perpetual Student]

How about you give us a statement as regards your position on the morality of that? Or do you still need to wait to find out who was responsible?

Wait until they somehow can put the blame on Obama, Biden or Hillary Clinton. Then you'll see how wrong the second strike was.

 

[Bradskii]

But you forgot to answer the question as to whether a second strike was justified if there were survivors.

How about you give us a statement as regards your position on the morality of that? Or do you still need to wait to find out who was responsible?

@Oompa Loompa: So is this morally abhorrent?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

@Oompa Loompa: So is this morally abhorrent?

I apologize for the late reply. I often get swamped with notifications and cannot keep track of it all. But to answer your question, if there were survivors and those survivors were positively identified, and those survivors were not still actively trying to resist (like trying to salvage drugs), it would be both morally and legally wrong to kill them. But as I get more information about the topic, it appears that the situation isnt so simple.

 

[Bradskii]

I apologize for the late reply. I often get swamped with notifications and cannot keep track of it all. But to answer your question, if there were survivors and those survivors were positively identified, and those survivors were not still actively trying to resist (like trying to salvage drugs), it would be both morally and legally wrong to kill them. But as I get more information about the topic, it appears that the situation isnt so simple.

Well, I'd say that the survivors were 'actively trying' not to drown. Just make a mental note that the orders were not 'prevent these drugs from getting to the US'. It was literally 'kill them all'. That's the position you have to square with your conscience.

 

[MarcusGregor]

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5631738-us-military-strikes-drug-boat/

Top Military Commander Showed Lawmakers Boat Strike Video—and It’s Bad

Representative Jim Himes said the video showed two survivors in “clear distress.”

newrepublic.com

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Well, I'd say that the survivors were 'actively trying' not to drown. Just make a mental note that the orders were not 'prevent these drugs from getting to the US'. It was literally 'kill them all'. That's the position you have to square with your conscience.

If you were referring to Hegseth, he stated that he never made such order.

 

[MarcusGregor]

If you were referring to Hegseth, he stated that he never made such order.

The Admiral testified to that effect as well.

 

[perplexed]

Why are people trying to justify this in a totally pathetic way ?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Why are people trying to justify this in a totally pathetic way ?

Poor narco terrorists. It is a shame the died trying to send poison to our country so that Americans would be killed.

 

[perplexed]

Poor narco terrorists. It is a shame the died trying to send poison to our country so that Americans would be killed.

 

[Factotum]

Killed narco terrorists designated as enemy combatants in the global war of terror.

Do you know if the Obama DoD is the force that made the 'double tap' bombing concept more acceptable for future Presidents to use?

I've been trying to locate Trump DoD critics who have proof that the survivors were surrendering when the 2nd boat strike occurred and killed them. Because if the video shows them refusing to surrender and un-injured; Was that because they had preserved their hatred/their terroirizing mindset toward the USA?

I guess some politicians are imagining that the 2 survivors were treading water while also making decrees to each other to never again try to help destroy USA residents with their narcotic.

 

[Factotum]

.. blame on Obama, Biden or Hillary Clinton...

Are you referring to 2016 in Afghanistan? Or 2012, When the Obama Biden Hillary DoD bombed the Shawal Valley and killed 10+ innocent civilian people?
I guess it's possible Trump DoD used that Act as a model or a concept to double-tap bombing narco terrorists.

 

[FenderTL5]

It's literally the example given in the Law of War manual on the DoD(W) website:

18.3.2.1 Clearly Illegal Orders to Commit Law of War Violations.

The requirement to refuse to comply with orders to commit law of war violations applies to orders to perform conduct that is clearly illegal or orders that the subordinate knows, in fact, are illegal. For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal.

Just a guess, the 6 individuals on the "right to refuse illegal orders" video were all on committees relating to the military or intelligence communities. They had already seen the strike(s) video and already knew that a war crime had been committed. Their 'warning' video pertained to future possibilities and served as a .."we know what you did.." acknowledgement without naming names.
Then the guilty dog(s) barked.

 

[Postvieww]

Don't play me for an idiot. There were guys in the water whose ship had been wrecked. Even if you were at war, which you aren't (you really should check to see who decides that), then killing unarmed men in the water, apart from being absolutely morally reprehensible, is murder. Those that support actions like this really need to take a good hard look at themselves.

Latest reporting says the designated terrorist drug dealers climbed back into the boat . They were not clinging to life in the water and murdered in cold blood. The goal was to sink the boat of drugs . If the first missile failed to accomplish that goal the second strike was warranted. It appears those brave drug terrorist chose to go down with their boat load of drugs. Everyone knows a brave Captain of a boat will go down with the ship if necessary. Those that support those that trafficking drugs that kill thousands should take a look at themselves and find another cross to die on.