• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Yarddog

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Jun 25, 2008
17,432
4,472
Louisville, Ky
✟1,059,494.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Europe has several successful Democratic Socialists countries.
...and don't bring up the Nordic countries, they're not socialism, they're capitalist models with an expanded welfare state. (which is different than socialism)
They are Democratic Socialist countries that have a mixture of Capitalism and Socialism. You seem to mean pure Socialism with an authoritarian government.
 
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Moderator Trainee
Hands-on Trainee
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
38,713
22,171
30
Nebraska
✟889,614.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
An irrational fear that Muslims are going to take over the country is not criticism of Islam. This is textbook Islamophobia.
Well? Maybe some people had bad experiences or have other reasons to feel that way? Although I do understand what you’re saying.

People shouldn’t fear most Muslims because 99.99999% of Muslims are good, loving people.

The extremists who kill in the name of Islam is something anyone should be fearful of.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: GoldenBoy89
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Moderator Trainee
Hands-on Trainee
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
38,713
22,171
30
Nebraska
✟889,614.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
'islamophobia' is a dumb term for bigotry against Muslims and it is propaganda.*

When people are bigoted against Muslims, we should just call it what it is -- bigotry.

Like all religions, Islam has issues and can be criticized, though this is not the place.


* it was ginned up by some arab lobby org. I think CAIR. They were trying to ride the coattails of "homophobia" which was a term that did reflect many reactions to LGB people at the time as closeting was very common and a lot of people did just have irrational fear of homosexuality. Though now-a-days most of that is also just bigotry.
Yes. I think that’s fair.

I know of many Muslim refugees in my city and they are good people. They have a right to live like anyone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

RocksInMyHead

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!
May 12, 2011
9,746
10,556
PA
✟458,131.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
'islamophobia' is a dumb term for bigotry against Muslims and it is propaganda.*

When people are bigoted against Muslims, we should just call it what it is -- bigotry.

Like all religions, Islam has issues and can be criticized, though this is not the place.


* it was ginned up by some arab lobby org. I think CAIR. They were trying to ride the coattails of "homophobia" which was a term that did reflect many reactions to LGB people at the time as closeting was very common and a lot of people did just have irrational fear of homosexuality. Though now-a-days most of that is also just bigotry.
I dunno - I'd characterize some of the claims made about Islam in this thread as "irrational fear".
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

I march with Sherman
Mar 11, 2017
23,233
17,263
55
USA
✟437,579.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
I dunno - I'd characterize some of the claims made about Islam in this thread as "irrational fear".
Irrational fear and irrational hatred are hard to distinguish. Classically the "phobias" are debilitating mental conditions.

If you have an all consuming fear of Muslims such that you can't enter public space where Muslims might be then you probably have "Muslimaphobia". Otherwise you probably don't.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Advocate For Constitutional Reform
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,867
6,862
48
North Bay
✟834,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Your stated desire to change the constitution to ban islam after learning that muslims will outnumber christians in 75 years reminds me of a child trying to change the rules once they start losing a game.

Well, there's a difference between losing a game, and losing a nation, and even losing the world, as examples of differences in degrees of severity.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,635
13,814
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟912,342.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Fortunately, we have our own reasons for retaining the secular government our Founders set forth.
If what they set forth was meant to be secular, why did they mention God so many times in the state constitutions?
"The U.S. Constitution never explicitly mentions God or the divine, but the same cannot be said of the nation’s state constitutions. In fact, God or the divine is mentioned at least once in each of the 50 state constitutions and nearly 200 times overall, according to a Pew Research Center analysis."
 
  • Like
Reactions: RileyG
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
43,635
13,814
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟912,342.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Irrational fear and irrational hatred are hard to distinguish. Classically the "phobias" are debilitating mental conditions.

If you have an all consuming fear of Muslims such that you can't enter public space where Muslims might be then you probably have "Muslimaphobia". Otherwise you probably don't.
"Phobias" are also just a derogatory label people use to slander those making a valid argument against something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RileyG
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Advocate For Constitutional Reform
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,867
6,862
48
North Bay
✟834,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I dunno - I'd characterize some of the claims made about Islam in this thread as "irrational fear".

If nobody can see and feel the things about Islam that I do, then all I can say is that maybe I have inherited some epigenetic effects from an ancestor who saw Islam *exactly* the same way I do, and so my DNA is pushing me into protection-mode, which was prepared for me, should the exact same neuronal firing sequence take place again.

I'm sure my ancestors fought beside the Habsburgs, during the Battle of Kobolkut, particularly, as well as the Battle of Vienna, secondarily, and I'm sure of it, because it's my ancestral homeland, and I exist - so I must come from the survivors of that.
 
Last edited:
  • Prayers
Reactions: RileyG
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Moderator Trainee
Hands-on Trainee
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
38,713
22,171
30
Nebraska
✟889,614.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
If nobody can see and feel the things about Islam that I do, then all I can say is that maybe I have inherited some epigenetic effects from an ancestor who saw Islam *exactly* the same way I do, and so my DNA is pushing me into protection-mode, which was prepared for me, should the exact same neuronal firing sequence take place again.

I'm sure my ancestors fought beside the Habsburgs, during the battles of Kobolkut, as well as the Battle of Vienna, and I'm sure of it, because it's my ancestral homeland, and I exist - so I must come from the survivors of that.
Pray like your life depended on it. Pray for their conversion and salvation.

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

I march with Sherman
Mar 11, 2017
23,233
17,263
55
USA
✟437,579.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
"Phobias" are also just a derogatory label people use to slander those making a valid argument against something.
No. Phobias are real mental diseases or conditions.

"Islamophobia" therefore isn't a thing.
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
44,491
47,476
Los Angeles Area
✟1,058,222.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
If what they set forth was meant to be secular, why did they mention God so many times in the state constitutions?
In context here, we're talking about the First Amendment and the federal constitution. This is the thing Landon Caeli is going to have to amend.

And in the course of history, the states secularized themselves within decades to disestablish the state churches, and SCOTUS' understanding of the First Amendment is that it has applied to the states since the Civil War amendments, regardless of any stray ceremonial deism here and there.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: PloverWing
Upvote 0

PloverWing

Episcopalian
May 5, 2012
5,420
6,465
New Jersey
✟420,721.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
If nobody can see and feel the things about Islam that I do, then all I can say is that maybe I have inherited some epigenetic effects from an ancestor who saw Islam *exactly* the same way I do, and so my DNA is pushing me into protection-mode, which was prepared for me, should the exact same neuronal firing sequence take place again.

I'm sure my ancestors fought beside the Habsburgs, during the Battle of Kobolkut, particularly, as well as the Battle of Vienna, secondarily, and I'm sure of it, because it's my ancestral homeland, and I exist - so I must come from the survivors of that.

I'm influenced by my ancestry, too. My ancestors lived through the English Reformation, in which Protestants killed Catholics, then Catholics killed Protestants, back and forth depending on who was in charge of the government. (From your profile, I see that you're Catholic. I'm Anglican. Which of us gets to murder the other? Blech.) I emphatically do not want to relive that time here in the US.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Advocate For Constitutional Reform
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,867
6,862
48
North Bay
✟834,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I'm so sure that I'm connected to my ancestors - because I just found out (right now) in Slovakia, they changed their constitution in such a way to defend against Islam, they raised the number to 50,000 that must be met, from 20,000 previously that marks the threshold for a religion to receive protected status... Because of Islam, specifically. I did not know this!

So something currently unexplainable is definitely going on here.

The two countries in the EU, with the least amount of Muslims are the Czech Republic, and Slovakia. And I feel very confident that the reasons for that are due to the "countless" number of bloody battles that took place there, according to my research, before the Ottomans were finally defeated, and Europe was saved. And it's something that changed our DNA forever.

...We are the stoppers of Islamic conquest!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Advocate For Constitutional Reform
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,867
6,862
48
North Bay
✟834,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I'm influenced by my ancestry, too. My ancestors lived through the English Reformation, in which Protestants killed Catholics, then Catholics killed Protestants, back and forth depending on who was in charge of the government. (From your profile, I see that you're Catholic. I'm Anglican. Which of us gets to murder the other? Blech.) I emphatically do not want to relive that time here in the US.
But we have a common foundation, including a shared culture at it's root and I like you as a person, as well as your entire religious community.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
9,617
4,885
82
Goldsboro NC
✟277,817.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I'm so sure that I'm connected to my ancestors - because I just found out (right now) in Slovakia, they changed their constitution in such a way to defend against Islam, they raised the number to 50,000 that must be met, from 20,000 previously that marks the threshold for a religion to receive protected status... Because of Islam, specifically. I did not know this!

So something currently unexplainable is definitely going on here.

The two countries in the EU, with the least amount of Muslims are the Czech Republic, and Slovakia. And I feel very confident that the reasons for that are due to the "countless" number of bloody battles that took place there, according to my research, before the Ottomans were finally defeated, and Europe was saved. And it's something that changed our DNA forever.

...We are the stoppers of Islamic conquest!
Did it never occur to you that Muslims may have come here to escape that kind of thing? The "hate" component of their religion, as well as yours?
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Advocate For Constitutional Reform
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,867
6,862
48
North Bay
✟834,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Did it never occur to you that Muslims may have come here to escape that kind of thing? The "hate" component of their religion, as well as yours?
That's why I'm not against them, personally, as human beings. I am against the ideology / religion. I would argue that with such an ideology as Islam, extreme caution must be exercised, that's different from every other ideology or religion on the planet. This is special scenario, that can't be broadbrushed into any 'like' categories, because there is nothing truly 'like' it.
 
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
9,617
4,885
82
Goldsboro NC
✟277,817.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
That's why I'm not against them, personally, as human beings. I am against the ideology / religion. I would argue that with such an ideology as Islam, extreme caution must be exercised, that's different from every other ideology or religion on the planet. This is special scenario, that can't be broadbrushed into any 'like' categories, because there is nothing truly 'like' it.
No, it's the same as with any other religion, with the possible exception of Bhuddism, maybe. The Christians religion, for example, has been in the past as warlike and intolerant as any present day Muslim sect.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

I march with Sherman
Mar 11, 2017
23,233
17,263
55
USA
✟437,579.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
I'm so sure that I'm connected to my ancestors - because I just found out (right now) in Slovakia, they changed their constitution in such a way to defend against Islam, they raised the number to 50,000 that must be met, from 20,000 previously that marks the threshold for a religion to receive protected status... Because of Islam, specifically. I did not know this!
The "protected status" you speak of is essentially the normal rights religious organizations have to organize in our country. Without this official recognition status group organizing is difficult and their ministers can officiate legal weddings, etc. The 50k limit is a mechanism to deny the rights of small religious groups. 50,000 is just under 1% of the population.

This law doesn't actually stop Muslim immigration. If fact, in the paranoid fantasy of "Islam is trying to take over the West by immigration", that law could *encourage* a rapid migration of Muslims into Slovakia to push over the threshold and stop being denied things granted to other religions.
So something currently unexplainable is definitely going on here.

The two countries in the EU, with the least amount of Muslims are the Czech Republic, and Slovakia.
A condition they share (less than 1% Muslim) with all of the former Warsaw Pact regions north of the former Ottoman empire and west of the Russian SSFR. (The other rest of the Soviet Union, including Russia, contains many regions with ethnic groups that were Muslim long before they were conquered by the Tsars. Ukraine would have a larger Muslim population, but Stalin ethnically cleansed the Tartars from Crimea to Siberia and then repopulated Crimea with Russians.)
And I feel very confident that the reasons for that are due to the "countless" number of bloody battles that took place there, according to my research, before the Ottomans were finally defeated, and Europe was saved. And it's something that changed our DNA forever.
That's not how DNA works.
...We are the stoppers of Islamic conquest!
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Advocate For Constitutional Reform
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
17,867
6,862
48
North Bay
✟834,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No, it's the same as with any other religion, with the possible exception of Bhuddism, maybe. The Christians religion, for example, has been in the past as warlike and intolerant as any present day Muslim sect.
Cognitive categorization is a form of a mental abstraction, that is normal in human communication, but isn't necessarily objectively true. It would be like saying shooting stars and other stars are all stars.... They're not! A shooting star is typically a free-flying tiny object, the size of a pea, or a grain of sand, which is nothing like an actual star. The common terms and vague understandings, are mere abstractions of thought.
 
Upvote 0