The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

[RileyG]

And others have been helped by it. Why ignore them? I'd wager that those who have been helped by gender affirming care outnumber those who were harmed by it (I know a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggests such), but if you have actual data counter to that, I'd be curious to see it.


No one's telling kids that. If a kid expresses that they have that feeling, it can be, and should be, discussed with someone who understands what they might be going through and can help guide them through it, but I've never heard of anyone telling a kid that apropos of nothing. It's a strawman, pure and simple.

-- A2SG, who are these people going up to random kids and just telling them how they should feel about their own bodies anyway....

No. It’s been happening.

 

[A2SG]

Yes. Help such as talk therapy and SSRI’s, and social support.

That's exactly what happens. No legitimate medical professional would recommend, let alone perform, surgery as the first option.

Compromising a minor’s sexual function and fertility so early on in life is flat out cruel, especially if they’re going trough a phase.

Surgery is not performed on minors. And for the very few adolescents (usually aged 15-17) who do get gender affirming surgery, in the vast majority of cases, it's top surgery, which would not compromise sexual function or fertility at all.

So your worries are unwarranted.

-- A2SG, doesn't that make you feel better?

 

[A2SG]

No. It’s been happening.

So some say. But I've yet to hear of an actual, documented case where a stranger walked up to a random kid and said "Hey, kid...you're transgender now. Let's go get you some surgery!"

Stuff like that doesn't happen.

-- A2SG, except in the minds of some really weird paranoid types.....

 

[RileyG]

That's exactly what happens. No legitimate medical professional would recommend, let alone perform, surgery as the first option.


Surgery is not performed on minors. And for the very few adolescents (usually aged 15-17) who do get gender affirming surgery, in the vast majority of cases, it's top surgery, which would not compromise sexual function or fertility at all.

So your worries are unwarranted.

-- A2SG, doesn't that make you feel better?

Actually, it has happened in minors.

Jazz Jennings (real name Jaron Bloshinsky) received sex change surgery at age 17.

Now he is experiencing a binge eating disorder, multiple meltdowns, has no sexual function or arousal, and will never experience a normal sexual relationship because he was his parents “experiment.” His fertility, puberty, and health was exchanged for fame and fortune.

Shame on his parents!

 

[RileyG]

So some say. But I've yet to hear of an actual, documented case where a stranger walked up to a random kid and said "Hey, kid...you're transgender now. Let's go get you some surgery!"

Stuff like that doesn't happen.

-- A2SG, except in the minds of some really weird paranoid types.....

Literally. There’s plenty of cases. Search at your own discretion. It’s beyond depressing.

 

[rjs330]

Now suppose the implementation of those gender affirming actions reduce suicide rates.
If it does, is there more empathic value in that or just get rid of them regardless?

There is no reliable evidence that it reduces suicide rates.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

No. They don’t have to talk about them. It has nothing to do with education. They can learn about it at home.

I guess we differ there, to me at least the school has an obligation to the students to explain phenomena in society. LGBTQ people exists, they are discussed in the news, there are laws governing society's view regarding them, they have rights that protect them from discrimination in many states and countries. They were a persecuted group in history (in some places even today). So if discussions of other civil rights and their histories have a place in schools then the discussions about the rights of LGBTQ people should also have a place in school.

If you add to that, depending on legislation, the school might have an obligation to protect LGBTQ students and staff. They have to make clear that being LGBTQ is not a valid ground for discrimination. How would the school get around to explain that without talking about them. There is also a good thing that the schools are an example that many views exists in society that might or might not be at odds with the views of the parents. The parents view is not Truth™.

 

[RileyG]

There is no reliable evidence that it reduces suicide rates.

If anything, the hormones make it worse.

Children are NOT guinea pigs!

They have a right to their bodies, sexual health, and normal puberty! Period!

 

[rjs330]

Your use of the phrase "suicide stats" is really vague as it's split into ideation, attempt and successful attempt. Generally, these all follow the same pattern from what I've seen but not always.
That said, a lot of the studies I've skimmed are comparing post op suicide attempts with the GENERAL population and I gotta say right off the bat, that is NOT an apprpriate comparision.
All of the stats you are quoting above is PRE-op. The link you provided didn't actually refer to "Gender affirming care" just "Gender minorities getting treatment and gender minorities with disabilities [nonspecified]. It cannot be deduced that the article was referring to "post op" individuals but seems to be referring to 'preop" phrase of their transition. Maybe I missed it?


The suicide ideation rate pre-op is 40% in trans kiddos (has has been consistent with the 4 trans people I've worked with (not really...they all had suicidal ideation).

So ....unbelievably shocking, that is somehow an improvement.


What is so utterly and completely baffling is that the regret rate for these surgeries is just, unbelievably low compared to so many other kinds of surgeries.

If this regret rate is low (and it's undeniably low), then one has to wonder if the surgery remains the problem 10 years later or if, perhaps their own belief or treatment and lack of acceptance in their society would continue to make them feel ostracized, alone and suicidal (paraphrasing a study that noted this as the likely reason).

Stop putting out unreliable information. No one really knows the regret rate. Putting out garbage information only reinforces false belief systems.

 

[RileyG]

I guess we differ there, to me at least the school has an obligation to the students to explain phenomena in society. LGBTQ people exists, they are discussed in the news, there are laws governing society's view regarding them, they have rights that protect them from discrimination in many states and countries. They were a persecuted group in history (in some places even today). So if discussions of other civil rights and their histories have a place in schools then the discussions about the rights of LGBTQ people should also have a place in school.

If you add to that, depending on legislation, the school might have an obligation to protect LGBTQ students and staff. They have to make clear that being LGBTQ is not a valid ground for discrimination. How would the school get around to explain that without talking about them. There is also a good thing that the schools are an example that many views exists in society that might or might not be at odds with the views of the parents. The parents view is not Truth™.

Yes, we should protect them without approving of a specific agenda. Treat everyone right, doesn’t mean any school should endorse or approve of an alternate lifestyle, especially one filled with so much risk.

Or people can just treat people right without caring what people choose to do with their lives.

 

[RileyG]

Stop putting out unreliable information. No one really knows the regret rate. Putting out garbage information only reinforces false belief systems.

This. Only time will tell.

 

[rjs330]

Are schools are forcing gender affirming care on any minors? Trans persons exists in society, as such schools have talk about them. Many societies have laws and regulations that forbid discrimination based on gender identity, that includes schools in many cases. What do you mean when you say leave minors out of it?

Does that mean that a gender diverse kid shouldn't get care?

No, they should receive intensive therapy until they are 18. Not affirmative care.

 

[RileyG]

No, they should receive intensive therapy until they are 18. Not affirmative care.

Yup! Reduce harm. Doing irreversible surgery to minors who may be going through a phase is just unforgivable! Let them live their lives in peace!

 

[A2SG]

Actually, it has happened in minors.

Jazz Jennings (real name Jaron Bloshinsky) received sex change surgery at age 17.

Now he is experiencing a binge eating disorder, multiple meltdowns, has no sexual function or arousal, and will never experience a normal sexual relationship because he was his parents “experiment.” His fertility, puberty, and health was exchanged for fame and fortune.

Shame on his parents!

Seems she disagrees with your assessment.

From her Facebook page:

My story is valid. My identity is real. And my family has been by my side every step of the way

It’s heartbreaking to see people try to rewrite my journey, turning my truth into a false narrative of abuse and confusion. But let me be clear: gender is not binary, and all identities are valid.The constant attempts to erase trans people while simultaneously trying to define our experiences for us are beyond exhausting. Our existence should never be questioned, yet here we are facing a world that continues to debate our right to simply be.No matter what policies or opinions say, I know who I am. And I will always stand proud with my community and family by my side.

I know times are tough for so many right now, but we must stick together and stay true to our authentic selves. If you call yourself an ally, now is the time to show up—loudly, proudly, and unwaveringly. We need you. Much love, and stay strong

#transgender #iamjazz​

I have no idea where you got your information, but perhaps getting that from other people isn't the best strategy. Just sayin'.

I'm sure she has other issues (who doesn't?), but being trans doesn't seem to be the root of them, according to her.

-- A2SG, and who would know better?

 

[Stopped_lurking]

No, they should receive intensive therapy until they are 18. Not affirmative care.

If you don't agree with using affirmative care as their therapeutic solution, what therapy should they be offered?

 

[A2SG]

Literally. There’s plenty of cases. Search at your own discretion. It’s beyond depressing.

As I've said, I've never heard of any such cases. Ever. And I am extremely dubious of that claim. So feel free to provide documentation if you can, and I'll consider it.

-- A2SG, but if your information comes from the same source as your information on Jazz Jennings, well, let's just say it doesn't look promising....

 

[RileyG]

Seems she disagrees with your assessment.

From her Facebook page:​

​

My story is valid. My identity is real. And my family has been by my side every step of the way

It’s heartbreaking to see people try to rewrite my journey, turning my truth into a false narrative of abuse and confusion. But let me be clear: gender is not binary, and all identities are valid.The constant attempts to erase trans people while simultaneously trying to define our experiences for us are beyond exhausting. Our existence should never be questioned, yet here we are facing a world that continues to debate our right to simply be.No matter what policies or opinions say, I know who I am. And I will always stand proud with my community and family by my side.

I know times are tough for so many right now, but we must stick together and stay true to our authentic selves. If you call yourself an ally, now is the time to show up—loudly, proudly, and unwaveringly. We need you. Much love, and stay strong

#transgender #iamjazz​

I have no idea where you got your information, but perhaps getting that from other people isn't the best strategy. Just sayin'.

I'm sure she has other issues (who doesn't?), but being trans doesn't seem to be the root of them, according to her.

-- A2SG, and who would know better?

I only mentioned him based on a website I seen from an ex-trans person. This website is very critical of gender ideology based on her own research and lived experience.

If anything, with regards to Jennings, his mother is the one calling the shots. I don’t want to derail this thread, but I very much see him as a victim of narcissistic abuse.

From everything I’ve seen, it’s beyond disturbing.

And no, I will never call a male a “she,” no matter how much he screams and demands.

 

[RileyG]

As I've said, I've never heard of any such cases. Ever. And I am extremely dubious of that claim. So feel free to provide documentation if you can, and I'll consider it.

-- A2SG, but if your information comes from the same source as your information on Jazz Jennings, well, let's just say it doesn't look promising....

There is. It’s happening. I cannot post the link, but it’s very common. Especially among many girls who now transition because they had a friend that did (peer pressure) or a controlling mother.

I only wish Jennings the best. No young boy deserves to go through what he did. It’s sickening.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Yes, we should protect them without approving of a specific agenda. Treat everyone right, doesn’t mean any school should endorse or approve of an alternate lifestyle, especially one filled with so much risk.

Or people can just treat people right without caring what people choose to do with their lives.

Yeah, but until we live utopia, we have politics and legislation.

 

[RileyG]

If you don't agree with using affirmative care as their therapeutic solution, what therapy should they be offered?

What’s wrong with talk therapy and SSRI’s? Or even DBT/radical acceptance?