Why religion cannot make its mind up about nudity

[Jo555]

I’d take issue with Godly and un-Godly men raping anyone. Having lustful thoughts is perfectly natural; ACTING on those thoughts is the problem.

Godly and un-Godly men who cannot control their urges are monsters and should go to jail with all the other rapists and molesters.

Eesh, cruising through and here I am again. Just want to elaborate as a Christian because although I don't really see a point in addressing these issues with atheists as they don't even believe in God, there are other Christians that do read through and in that sense I feel it necessary to bring that perspective into a thread that may be more full of atheists.

Scriptures do teach that lusts are part of the fallen natural man, and they are still considered sinful.

As Jesus said in the sermon on the mount, it is not just in the act, but if you look upon a woman with lust, you have sinned. If you hate your brother, you've murdered him because it is all about the heart.

He showed us that the standard is way above just keeping a law, but being holy as God is holy; to be pure of heart.
Impossible of ourselves and why we need a Savior.

The natural man will lust, hate, steal, be jealous, etc, but in Christ that nature is put off through the work of the cross and the power of God's Spirit. The fallen natural man does not go through rehab, he's crucified and denied.

Unfortunately, some believers try and rehab the natural man, but he's just to be denied by the power of God's Spirit.

So yes, it is part of the natural, fallen man to feel lust, but one should give it no room and deny it.

I also don't equate a normal sex drive as necessarily being on equal terms to lust. The body can at times just react. Lust is a heart issue that is all about me. It's looking upon another to gratify the flesh in a selfish, self-centered way. Sin is always a heart issue, but all believers should take up there situation with the Lord, and know the blood of Jesus has you covered as you grow in Him.

 

[Niels]

The premise of this thread seems odd to me. Religion doesn't have a mind to make up about nudity. It's a mixture of cultural mores and personal feelings.

The Bible does offer an explanation for clothing, that Adam and Eve felt ashamed so God clothed them, but it never declares nudity as inherently immoral. Also, the kind of immodesty mentioned in the Bible pertains to extravagant clothing. The Biblical definition of immodesty is basically to dress and behave ostentatiously.

Regarding lust, that again depends on the culture. Behaving in ways that are culturally considered lust-provoking, that are culturally coded as explicitly done to seduce, should be avoided. The counter to this might be that if enough people dress a particular way and aren't actively trying to seduce then it's acceptable, which just proves my point that it's cultural. There are ways in our culture that people behave and dress in order to intentionally seduce or arouse lust. As members of society it is our responsibility to learn what those things are and to know the difference. Keeping in mind that they differ between cultures and change with the times.

 

[CLEEB]

You need to cover yourself. No one wants to see it

When Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of good and evil then they knew they were naked and obviously knew that this was not good because they attempted to cover themselves. As far as I see in scripture uncovering someone’s nakedness was forbidden with a next of kin, for fornication, rape or adultery. I recall no nudist camps when reading scripture. To even look on a woman fully dressed and lust for her is adultery. Given the sinful nature of humanity then thinking nudity is OK is contrary to that sinful nature. Pornography is one of the biggest businesses in the world and is all over the internet. Would any of us want our mother, wife or daughter to go around naked ? Before sin entered the world Adam and Eve were naked AND NOT ASHAMED, the shame came after they sinned. What does this tell us ? Nakedness is only acceptable to GOD within marriage and any other use of it is sin. Hebrews 13:4 Having multiple wives was not acceptable in the new covenant church. In the very early days of humanity things were different because humanity need to increase in number but later on with Moses things changed then with Jesus and the church one final time. Sexual intercourse is only permitted in marriage and obviously nakedness goes along with that. The marriage bed only is undefiled.

 

[fhansen]

When Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of good and evil then they knew they were naked and obviously knew that this was not good because they attempted to cover themselves.

It's not, IMO, that they knew that nakedness was wrong; it's that, with their loss of innocence they thought it was wrong. They thought they were wrong, in their essence, as God made them. They now knew something foreign: they knew shame. And we've never gotten over this and will not get over it in this fallen world; shame of self is part of the exile from God that we all experience in this world. JMO, tho.

 

[CLEEB]

It's not, IMO, that they knew that nakedness was wrong; it's that, with their loss of innocence they thought it was wrong. They thought they were wrong, in their essence, as God made them. They now knew something foreign: they knew shame. And we've never gotten over this and will not get over it in this fallen world; shame of self is part of the exile from God that we all experience in this world. JMO, tho.

Do you feel shame for doing good or for doing evil ? GOD seems to have agreed with their assessment and sacrificed animals to use the skins to more adequately cover them. If you think something is wrong it usually is. There could be a situation you are involved in that you do something that at the time you didn’t know was wrong but later discovered is wrong. It’s new to you but you still know it’s wrong none the less. Rather than attempt to psychoanalyze Adam and Eve just read the scripture and believe what it says. By making this more complex than what it is hinders the understanding of the truth.

 

[fhansen]

Do you feel shame for doing good or for doing evil ?

Well, I'm one of those who feel shame for little reason at all. There's such a thing as healthy guilt, that seeks to move us away from wrongdoing and towards righteousness, and there's such a thing as false guilt which the enemy, for one, tends to promote and get us focused on.

Before the Fall they were naked and felt no shame, no shame in their natural and good createdness. It was only after the Fall, as a result of it, as a result of their disobedience and the alienation from God that it caused, that shame entered their world; no longer were they comfortable in their own skins-and they were hiding from God. And that's the brave new world we all inherit now, along with its "falleness", its loss of innocence and the natural holiness man was created in. The body would now become a target of derision, in fact, a source of many of the vulgar terms humans use in this world, for example. That's not how God created things to be.

But He didn't abandon man; He knew of our weakness, our shame and the pride that actually lies at its root. They wanted to be God, not the creature. So, yes, He accomodated their new state of being including its shame, the shame that points to man's sin, to his separation from God that will persist until man is truly whole again and back into full communion with his Creator, a union which, itself, won't be fully consummated until the next life. Until then He works in and through what He has, with His compromised creation. Afterwards, we have no sure idea of how things will be, of what He'll then have in store for those who love Him. But we know there'll be no falsehood, all will be transparent. And perhaps it's significant that Jesus, while atoning for mans sin's and reconciling us back to God, died naked on the cross, with man's darkness hating and degrading the light, the innocent Lamb of God in front of them.

And there's no need to psychoanalyze, just to understand the plain meaning IMO-in light of and as confirmed by experience in this life. But just my opinion, of course.

 

[partinobodycular]

Rather than attempt to psychoanalyze Adam and Eve just read the scripture and believe what it says.

Oh if it was only that easy.

There could be a situation you are involved in that you do something that at the time you didn’t know was wrong but later discovered is wrong. It’s new to you but you still know it’s wrong none the less.

The opposite is also true. A child might feel shame for having to go to school dressed in hand-me-downs because their family is poor, only to later realize that they had nothing to be ashamed of. If we were to follow your reasoning then wearing hand-me-downs is wrong.

In this case I believe that we have to take Genesis 3:7 in context to truly understand what it's saying, and it's not that being naked is wrong. Then again who am I to think that I, an agnostic, know anything about scripture.