The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

[Hentenza]

The specific example being discussed concerns homosexuality, not trans or gender dysphoria.

Ok but it is still the parents responsibility to have the discussion with the child.

 

[Hentenza]

Why does that argument not apply to trans pronouns?

It didn’t to begin with. You are the one that brought it up. Hint, Mrs. Smith is an adult entitled to her decisions while children do not yet have the capacity to make life long changes without their parents help.

 

[BCP1928]

It didn’t to begin with. You are the one that brought it up. Hint, Mrs. Smith is an adult entitled to her decisions while children do not yet have the capacity to make life long changes without their parents help.

I'm not sure that letting students determine their own pronouns or nicknames quite falls into that category. And the parents are most always involved in these things unless there is real concern about abuse. In those cases, a little counselling and support might be a good idea before the child figures out how best to come out to his parents.

 

[Hentenza]

I'm not sure that letting students determine their own pronouns or nicknames quite falls into that category. And the parents are most always involved in these things unless there is real concern about abuse. In those cases, a little counselling and support might be a good idea before the child figures out how best to come out to his parents.

Again, I disagree. If the parents are abusive then there are other avenues including removing the children from an abusive household. In Parham v. J.R., 442 U.S. 584, 603 (1979) the Supreme Court ruled the following:

“[t]he statist notion that governmental power should supersede parental authority in all cases because some parents abuse and neglect children is repugnant to American tradition. Simply because the decision of a parent is not agreeable to a child or because it involves risks does not automatically transfer the power to make that decision from the parents to some agency or officer of the state”

 

[BNR32FAN]

Uncovered docs show top teachers union guiding gender transitions, bashing conservatives: 'Insane asylum'

Defending Education obtained documents showing one of the nation's top teachers unions training members on far-left gender identity postures while criticizing conservatives.

www.foxnews.com

The progressive left wing liberals really do want to indoctrinate your children against what parents believe.

Yeah I think both parties are trying to do that.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

How does the school determine what is normal? As a parent I’ve raised the child since birth so I would be much better qualified to determine the extent of the change. The schools would see thst change if the child, to stay with the present topic, starts talking about gender issues or changes.

If it relatively commonplace in the student body (in the human population).

Why? Is the school going to provide gender dysphoria treatment without the parent’s permission?

Schools doesn't provide gender dysphoria treatment?

Or is the school merely going to ignore it and perpetuate the behavior that could result in mental health damage to the child?

No, if the teachers or the school counsellor think that the kid is having problems of course they can refer them to health care professionals. If the kid is happy and keeping up with the academics, then they would check in with the student regularly and leave it at that.

Have you now retreated back to only the trans question?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

There are culture warriors on both sides of the issue, I see that. What I don't see very much of on either side is much actual concern for the children involved in the issue. In fact, when you get right down to it, the argument from the Right seems mostly to do with the imposition it puts on them to accept trans. One side says "Use these pronouns, it will be good for the children." Whether that's right or wrong, at least it expresses some concern for the children. The other side says, "I won't use these pronouns because it would be an imposition on me whether it helps the children or not."

Actually, I think both "sides" [scare quotes emphasized here] are more diverse than what you're making it sound like in this one, single post.

While I'm neither politically liberal or conservative, I can take the best 'principle' of both sides, hold them in juxtaposition with each other, and come out with a more nuanced 3rd (or 4th) position on the issues at hand.

This whole absolutistic political dichotomy that extremist on both "sides" are advocating is, to my philosophical mind, a travesty of where things really need to go (or can even be expected to go) as we all move into the future together.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'll allow that legislation is an awfully big hammer to use to solve a problem that is better addressed with...tweezers? The situation on the ground is one or two students in a classroom, maybe only one or two students in the whole school, who are gender-diverse. They need to feel safe in school, and their classmates also need to feel safe in school. A quiet, individualized solution, in which the student uses their preferred name, and perhaps there's a gender-neutral restroom available in the building, might be enough to make everyone feel safe enough to continue with the business of education.

While I'm grateful for the anti-discrimination laws in my own state of New Jersey, I also see that the adults shouting "You have to use their pronouns!" "No, you're forbidden to use their pronouns!" may not be making things better for the gender-diverse kid who's just trying to make it through algebra class.

And that seems sensible, sister PloverWing.

 

[Say it aint so]

"Empathy" is a far left agenda.

 

[Hentenza]

If it relatively commonplace in the student body (in the human population).

why do you think that is? If in fact it is.

Schools doesn't provide gender dysphoria treatment?

Right but parents can take the child for treatment.

No, if the teachers or the school counsellor think that the kid is having problems of course they can refer them to health care professionals. If the kid is happy and keeping up with the academics, then they would check in with the student regularly and leave it at that.

No. Parents make the decision not the school. It is the parents right to protect their child.

Have you now retreated back to only the trans question?

I have not retreated anywhere. My argument is not just restricted to the trans question but about any change from the normal.

 

[Hentenza]

"Empathy" is a far left agenda.

That could not be further from the truth.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

"Empathy" is a far left agenda.

Actually, as I think about it, maybe it is a far left agenda. Because empathy alone, by itself and shorn of any other additional context, is surely a cheap imitation of a fuller, more robust expression of genuine COMPASSION which all Christians are OBLIGATED to show to other people around them in the world at large. It's not an opt out.

Of course, those who prefer to go to 'Hell' in the long run can opt out of having to be chained to showing compassion, I suppose.......

 

[Say it aint so]

Actually, as I think about it, maybe it is a far left agenda. Because empathy alone, by itself and shorn of any other additional context, is surely a cheap imitation of a fuller, more robust expression of genuine COMPASSION which all Christians are OBLIGATED to show to other people around them in the world at large. It's not an opt out.

Of course, those who prefer to go to 'Hell' in the long run can opt out of having to be chained to showing compassion, I suppose.......

Given this issue and in your scenario, Christianity is failing.

 

[Say it aint so]

That could not be further from the truth.

Let me rephrase that. "Apparently "Empathy" is a far left agenda."

 

[Hentenza]

Let me rephrase that. "Apparently "Empathy" is a far left agenda."

Again, that could not be further from the truth.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

why do you think that is? If in fact it is.

It seems that between 5-10% feel same-sex attraction across the globe, that is pretty common.

Right but parents can take the child for treatment.

Of course they can, but they don't take them to school for treatment do they?

No. Parents make the decision not the school. It is the parents right to protect their child.

For a high school age kid, they should have the right to determine who they like and how they see themselves. Why would the parents get any say in that?

I have not retreated anywhere. My argument is not just restricted to the trans question but about any change from the normal.

So how do you determine what is normal? Can you answer this time instead of deflecting the question back at me?

 

[Hentenza]

It seems that between 5-10% feel same-sex attraction across the globe, that is pretty common.

That’s actually quite low. You didn’t really answered what I initially posted.

Of course they can, but they don't take them to school for treatment do they?

Why would any one take their child to school for treatment?

For a high school age kid, they should have the right to determine who they like and how they see themselves. Why would the parents get any say in that?

Hugh school kids still don’t have enough maturity and experience to make life long decisions in their own. They need their parents for help and support. Why are you trying to divorce the parents from the child? Are you afraid that your left wing agenda will be interrupted by those “terrible” parents?

So how do you determine what is normal? Can you answer this time instead of deflecting the question back at me?

Lol I have never deflected. This is what I wrote earlier that you ignored in favor of percentages.

“As a parent I’ve raised the child since birth so I would be much better qualified to determine the extent of the change. The schools would see that change if the child, to stay with the present topic, starts talking about gender issues or changes.”

So as a parent I know what normal is for my kid. The schools have to let me know if my kid has a gender or sexuality issue based on his/her comments rather than keeping it a secret.