The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

[A2SG]

And how is historical perceptions of female actors irrelevant to this subject of male actors playing female roles?

Because the point was about society accepting cross dressing as entertainment. Why actors cross dressed isn't relevant to that point, only that they did, and society had no problem with it.

Nice try though.

We wouldn’t be having this conversation if society had “…clearly accepted both for most of human history”. Ya think….

Only if you ignore the vast and varied history of cross dressing, and drag, as acceptable entertainment, that is.

Individuals may differ on what they, personally, choose to accept, but society, in general, has accepted cross dressing and drag as entertainment for centuries.

-- A2SG, even as children's entertainment, or have you forgotten Bugs Bunny.....

 

[The Righterzpen]

Even when looking at places where it is covered by public spending (Sweden from 1970-2010) the regret rate is rather low, 2.2% regretted SRS. Which is in line with regret rates reported in the literature. So why should I believe in some kind of conspiracy?

Why did Sweden change its policies then? Surgeries are not even allowed for people under 18. It’s a very lengthy process to get approved for surgery and it takes years.

So now, what percentage of people explore the option of surgery who don’t go through with it?

Other than females who get double mastectomies; what percentage actually get “bottom surgery”. (I’m going to venture to guess that the number is pretty small for those with full consent of what it entails!)

 

[The Righterzpen]

Because the point was about society accepting cross dressing as entertainment. Why actors cross dressed isn't relevant to that point, only that they did, and society had no problem with it.

Society accepted cross dressing of actors… because it was theatre. (Theatre is not real life.) The actors were not trying to pass themselves off as women in society.

Only if you ignore the vast and varied history of cross dressing, and drag, as acceptable entertainment, that is.

Individuals may differ on what they, personally, choose to accept, but society, in general, has accepted cross dressing and drag as entertainment for centuries.

No one cares if you want to go to a gay bar dressed in drag.

And kids don’t end up confused when the adults in their lives explain to them that bugs bunny isn’t real.

 

[A2SG]

Society accepted cross dressing of actors… because it was theatre. (Theatre is not real life.) The actors were not trying to pass themselves off as women in society.

I never said they did. The claim was made that society did not embrace cross dressing. My point is that it has embraced it for centuries.

No one cares if you want to go to a gay bar dressed in drag.

Or perform somewhere else in drag. It's acceptable in many different venues.

And kids don’t end up confused when the adults in their lives explain to them that bugs bunny isn’t real.

Nor are they confused by Bugs dressing as a woman occasionally. Nor when Robin Williams did it, or Tom Hanks, or Dustin Hoffman.

-- A2SG, or even Ronald Reagan......

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Why did Sweden change its policies then?

The only change was that GnRH antagonists are no longer RECOMMENDED for those under 18. Doctors can still prescribe them at their own discretion.

Edited to add again!
Here are the recommendations (if you don't know swedish, I'll guess you can right-click and "translate to English"
Uppdaterade rekommendationer för hormonbehandling vid könsdysfori hos unga

Edited to add! I have already told you in an earlier post, SBU realized that there might be a slower bone mineralization when using GnRH antagonists alone.

Here is the underlying evaluation by SBU

Hormonbehandling vid könsdysfori – barn och unga

There have never been many that have had surgical interventions at a young age.

Surgeries involving the gonads are only in exceptional cases performed on those under 23 (that is despite that you are an adult from 18)

Surgeries are not even allowed for people under 18. It’s a very lengthy process to get approved for surgery and it takes years.

So now, what percentage of people explore the option of surgery who don’t go through with it?

Other than females who get double mastectomies; what percentage actually get “bottom surgery”. (I’m going to venture to guess that the number is pretty small for those with full consent of what it entails!)

I don't think that is collected in the medical system here.

 

[The Righterzpen]

I never said they did. The claim was made that society did not embrace cross dressing. My point is that it has embraced it for centuries.


Or perform somewhere else in drag. It's acceptable in many different venues.


Nor are they confused by Bugs dressing as a woman occasionally. Nor when Robin Williams did it, or Tom Hanks, or Dustin Hoffman.

-- A2SG, or even Ronald Reagan......

Yes and the point is that in certain contexts (ie certain types of performances) it is acceptable. But drag queens shaking their junk at public schools in front of kids is not one of those acceptable contexts!

 

[BCP1928]

Society accepted cross dressing of actors… because it was theatre. (Theatre is not real life.) The actors were not trying to pass themselves off as women in society.

Where are you getting this "pass yourself off" business? Who do you think they think they're fooling, and why?

No one cares if you want to go to a gay bar dressed in drag.

And kids don’t end up confused when the adults in their lives explain to them that bugs bunny isn’t real.

 

[Larniavc]

Go look up the procedures for “bottom surgery”. They’re barbaric. Patients loose the ability to have sex at all.

What am I look for exactly? I had a brief look but didn’t find anything beyond the normal surgery impacts.

 

[Larniavc]

But drag queens shaking their junk

I think you may be misapprehending the deal with a Drag Queen.

 

[A2SG]

Yes and the point is that in certain contexts (ie certain types of performances) it is acceptable.

Sure. Same for every form of entertainment. Which is why you don't see a lot of stand up comedians booking funerals.

But drag queens shaking their junk at public schools in front of kids is not one of those acceptable contexts!

Which is why they don't do that kind of performance there. Entertainers always perform for different audiences in different ways.

-- A2SG, after all, you didn't see Bob Saget do his version of The Aristocrats on Full House, did you?

 

[Hentenza]

Nothing does. Nothing that would require parental consent, anyway, like medical intervention of any kind. Now, if a kid wants to be referred to by different pronouns, or called a different gender than their body would indicate, or even by a different name, that hardly requires parental consent.

The parents still need to know. They are responsible for their child and their wellbeing. If the child has gender issues it is the parent‘s purview to seek psychological help at their discretion. The schools need to immediately inform the parents.

 

[Hentenza]

None of which is mandated by law.

-- A2SG, it's perfectly legal to be as rude or dismissive of anyone else as you like....

It doesnt have to be a law for misguided school districts to require their teachers to use preferred pronouns and names or loose their jobs. The fallout is real.

 

[Hentenza]

Why do kids need to know? Because they may be part of that three percent, and would need to know what that means.

I disagree.

-- A2SG, and no one's forcing pronouns on you....feel free to use any pronouns you like, if if the person you're talking to prefers different ones....who cares what they prefer, right?

How shortsighted and misguided. You really have no clue do you.

 

[A2SG]

The parents still need to know.

In most cases, probably. But, if the parents aren't of an understanding nature, or the kid fears their reaction, it might not be advisable.

Either way, a parents consent isn't required for a school to use a different name or pronoun for the kid.

They are responsible for their child and their wellbeing. If the child has gender issues it is the parent‘s purview to seek psychological help at their discretion. The schools need to immediately inform the parents.

If psychological intervention is necessary, yes. But that isn't always necessary. At least, not immediately.

-- A2SG, sometimes, just trying a new identity on for size is all the kid needs.....

 

[A2SG]

It doesnt have to be a law for misguided school districts to require their teachers to use preferred pronouns and names or loose their jobs. The fallout is real.

How many jobs allow employees to just ignore job requirements willy nilly?

-- A2SG, guessing not many....

 

[A2SG]

I disagree.

Probably because you haven't experienced it. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio.

How shortsighted and misguided. You really have no clue do you.

Who is forcing you to use any pronouns you don't want to?

-- A2SG, clue me in, why don't cha?

 

[Fervent]

Because the point was about society accepting cross dressing as entertainment. Why actors cross dressed isn't relevant to that point, only that they did, and society had no problem with it.

when the whole joke behind the cross dressing was that it was an absurd idea, it's not an accepted practice. In fact, your example speaks to just how unacceptable it was since it was considered so far beyond the pale that it was immediately funny seeing a man in woman's clothing.

Only if you ignore the vast and varied history of cross dressing, and drag, as acceptable entertainment, that is.

Cross dressing, sure. Drag? That's not got a long history, and from its inception has been seen as the territory of a degenerate oversexualized subculture.

Individuals may differ on what they, personally, choose to accept, but society, in general, has accepted cross dressing and drag as entertainment for centuries.

-- A2SG, even as children's entertainment, or have you forgotten Bugs Bunny.....

Your conflating the two just shows how desperate you are.

 

[Hentenza]

In most cases, probably. But, if the parents aren't of an understanding nature, or the kid fears their reaction, it might not be advisable.

That is not for the school to decide. If the child fears their parents then the authorities might need to be involved.

Either way, a parents consent isn't required for a school to use a different name or pronoun for the kid.

Yes it is. The parents are the final say so on what their child is called not the school.

If psychological intervention is necessary, yes. But that isn't always necessary. At least, not immediately.

Irrelevant. It is the parent‘s decision.

-- A2SG, sometimes, just trying a new identity on for size is all the kid needs.....

Wow, just wow.

 

[Hentenza]

How many jobs allow employees to just ignore job requirements willy nilly?

-- A2SG, guessing not many....

Job requirements? So you agree then that preferred pronouns and names are forced on people under the threat of loosing their jobs. And I guess you are ok with that. So three percent of the population does indeed dominate this requirement.

 

[BCP1928]

It doesnt have to be a law for misguided school districts to require their teachers to use preferred pronouns and names or loose their jobs. The fallout is real.

I never saw what the big deal is about that. Do you know of anyone who was actually fired for using unpreferred pronouns in other than a confrontational manner?