Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Do you assume that I abhor the thought of that being true, like Dan1988 does with his "God is hate" nonsense on the previous page? Not at all. I cannot deny that universal reconciliation (I assume that is the position you take with these words) does have some Scriptural evidence

Brilliant deduction, although there are many flavors in the realm of Christian universalism. Even the infamous Roman catholic church "allows" it as a heterodox position.

I would be overjoyed to find out that it was the true interpretation in the end

Surprisingly, one can believe that Jesus IS the Savior of the world and still hold to eternal torment for the devil and his messengers. Imagine that?

I only take up the conditional immortality stance because it has more evidence in Scripture to me than the other two positions

I've mentioned this prior, but technically, we're all the walking dead, us included. Col. 3:3

So that part is a foregone conclusion in God's Eyes.

The "Body" we will inhabit for eternity is technically HIS, as all things are HIS. 1 Cor. 15:28

I most certainly do presume to cry out for His mercy and forgiveness while demanding that others are left in the dark of unforgiveness and wrath forever.

Yeah, maybe not so much.

IF we really wanted Divine Mercy we'd probably be well served to hope for it for all people, us included. You know, the "as you measure so you will be measured yourself" thingy

Besides it's good for the heart not to have to carry that kind of darkness in us. I've seen religious people get real ugly over a lifetime of holding on to that crap of hypocrisy and false self justifications, etc etc

 

[Dan1988]

I responded to your false statement “God is hate” with a definition that God is love and He tells us that is also His commandment to us. I made no claim that any of us can actually keep the commandments or achieve any kind of “sinless perfection”.

Now you go off into to some accusations of “works based salvation” of which I said no such thing. I was concentrating on the fact that God is NOT “hate.”

Your presumption that I was speaking about “works based salvation” is incorrect and an ignorant accusation. I understand the context of where the commandments & works apply to living by faith ( Romans 1:17, Romans 13:1-14, Colossians 1:1-29 especially verses 10 through 24) that these are of the liberty in which Jesus Christ frees us from the yoke of bondage ( Galatians 5:1-26. We are saved by grace to walk in faith for good works ( Ephesians 2:8-10).

I think anyone should read Romans 16:17-19 to consider in your way of posting.

I think you should read Romans 16:17-19 it speaks about those like yourself who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the the doctrine I have learned.
You contradict the gospel of the Lord Jesus, by rejecting the new covenant and trying to mix the old and new together, thus creating another gospel.

You falsely claim that "God is love" but I gave you verses to show you that God is also hate, but you rejected them because you only believe those scriptures which you can use to support your denomination.

Your always referring to verses which exhort "born again believers to do good works", but you try to apply them as requirements to fulfill, in order to earn salvation. You're trying to present a hybrid gospel, whereby we are saved by grace and works.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Yeah, maybe not so much.

IF we really wanted Divine Mercy we'd probably be well served to hope for it for all people, us included. You know, the "as you measure so you will be measured yourself" thingy

Sorry, I meant to say I do NOT presume to ... I should go correct that post before others get the wrong idea.

 

[SarahsKnight]

I responded to your false statement “God is hate” with a definition that God is love and He tells us that is also His commandment to us. I made no claim that any of us can actually keep the commandments or achieve any kind of “sinless perfection”.

Now you go off into to some accusations of “works based salvation” of which I said no such thing. I was concentrating on the fact that God is NOT “hate.”

But eternal torment proponents, once challenged with a different view from other believers on this matter, must resort to such strawman tactics to save face.

For example,
You: No, God is NOT hate as you say, as there is no Scripture that states that. Rather, here's where it states just the opposite, that God IS love.

Dan1988: *gasp* Legalist! You think works will save you and not Christ Himself!

 

[timothyu]

God is against adversity, not those who practice it.

 

[timothyu]

Please identify the "us"

We humans (and His elohim).
His Will be done in earth as it is in Heaven

 

[Lukaris]

I think you should read Romans 16:17-19 it speaks about those like yourself who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the the doctrine I have learned.
You contradict the gospel of the Lord Jesus, by rejecting the new covenant and trying to mix the old and new together, thus creating another gospel.

You falsely claim that "God is love" but I gave you verses to show you that God is also hate, but you rejected them because you only believe those scriptures which you can use to support your denomination.

Your always referring to verses which exhort "born again believers to do good works", but you try to apply them as requirements to fulfill, in order to earn salvation. You're trying to present a hybrid gospel, whereby we are saved by grace and works.

I didn’t know saying, “God is love” ( 1 John 4:8) is false. You keep saying that I am putting the Old Testament over the New by mentioning the commandments ( like Matthew 7:12 per Matthew 7:1-12, Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10, per Romans 3:1-14?).

Yet you keep saying “God is hate” or is “also hate” in your revised mentions. Every verse that you can try to claim this from is from the Old Testament which you say I sm muddling with the New. The only thing God “hates” in the NT are the “deeds” ( Revelation 2:6) & “doctrines ( Revelation 2:15) of the Nicolatians. God ( the Lord Jesus Christ here) doesn’t say He hates the Nicolatians themselves. This is recorded by the Apostle John who also wrote “God is love” ( 1 John 4:8). 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 isn’t a hallmark card.

Paul speaks of the problem of works in Romans 3 based on boasting & exclusive, self righteousness towards the Gentiles ( Romans 3:27-31). Paul adds circumcision to this in Romans 4 by Abraham who lived by faith yet was the father of circumcision ( Romans 4:11-13) because some early circumcised Christians were insisting all had to be circumcised.

Living by faith involves living by the Lord’s commandments not assuming we can keep them but trusting in Him by them ( He promises us the Holy Spirit to counsel us in this per John 14:15-18). When we depart this earthly life salvation is ( Ephesians 2:8-9) while we are here, we are living life as Paul tells us in Romans 13:1-14, per Ephesians 2:8-10). These things should happen as a living witness in some form ( Matthew 5:14-20). We are warned to take care in living by faith ( Matthew 7:15-23). What are we supposed to be otherwise in daily life, stiff boards walking around in straight jackets?

 

[Brother Del]

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

The Lord Jesus Christ felt so strongly about this place that "doesn't exist", that He suggested the cutting off and plucking out of body parts, if that's what it took to keep you from going there.

And while in the process of encouraging self mutilation, He said not a single word about
"annihilation". But rather, repeated three separate times "where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched"

I don't mean to be unkind. I love you all, and with all the love of Christ within me. And it is because of that love that I humbly say to you. You better give heed to His words. You better stop arguing amongst yourselves and hear the words of the Master Himself. He created Hell, do you think He might just have some kind of an idea what He's talking about?

There are some of you who for whatever reasons will insist that the One person in all of human history who never spoke anything but the truth, for He is Truth, did not mean what He was plainly saying. To you I say, regardless of your level of education, you are a fool. Repent of your nonsense before you become a damned fool.
Father have mercy.
Christ have mercy.
Holy Spirit lift the veil.

 

[SarahsKnight]

There are some of you who for whatever reasons will insist that the One person in all of human history who never spoke anything but the truth, for He is Truth, did not mean what He was plainly saying.

Yeah, you're right. If only folk like @JulieB67 , @timothyu , and myself would just accept the plain saying from Jesus in Matthew 10:28 "destroy both soul and body in hell" as really meaning "keep both body and soul alive in endless torment in hell" like eternal torment proponents do.
If only we could understand that what Jesus plainly meant by John 3:36 "and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him", is really "he that believeth not the Son shall see life in hell instead of life in Heaven, where the wrath of God does not result in actual destruction but goes on conciously for all eternity, keeping sin and sinners alive in His perfect kingdom". If only we could understand what Jesus was plainly saying in verses such these, like the eternal torment proponents do, right?

I mean, when He told us to "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you", of course we were all supposed to understand that, all the while, the One who commanded us to love our enemies is planning to torture His enemies alive for eternity. >_>
___________

I don't mean to be unkind. I love you all, and with all the love of Christ within me. And it is because of that love that I humbly say to you. You better give heed to His words

To you I say, regardless of your level of education, you are a fool. Repent of your nonsense before you become a damned fool.

What's nonsense here is your claiming to love us and not trying to be unkind in one breath, and then condemn us to burn alive for eternity in God's name unless we turn back to the eternal torment doctrine (i.e. your way of thinking, and you cannot prove it is also God's way) in the next breath. I mean, come on.

And also, while we're on the subject of, in your quoted words at the top of this post, what "He was plainly saying", didn’t Jesus say somewhere in at least one of the four gospels that someone who calls his brother a fool would be in danger of those very fires of Gehenna/hell?
So, is it not you who needs to watch his words or change how he thinks lest he come under the same condemnation with which he was implicitly condemning both the conditionalists/annihilationists and universality in this thread?

 

[timothyu]

I mean, when He told us to "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you", of course we were all supposed to understand that, all the while, the One who commanded us to love our enemies is planning to torture His enemies alive for eternity. >_>

As many who live under the oppression of bullies would one day hope for their oppressors, failing to understand that those bullies were the product of whatever made them that way, and in seeking revenge, the victim has also become the bully

 

[Brother Del]

Yeah, you're right. If only folk like @JulieB67 , @timothyu , and myself would just accept the plain saying from Jesus in Matthew 10:28 "destroy both soul and body in hell" as really meaning "keep both body and soul alive in endless torment in hell" like eternal torment proponents do.
If only we could understand that what Jesus plainly meant by John 3:36 "and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him", is really "he that believeth not the Son shall see life in hell instead of life in Heaven, where the wrath of God does not result in actual destruction but goes on conciously for all eternity, keeping sin and sinners alive in His perfect kingdom". If only we could understand what Jesus was plainly saying in verses such these, like the eternal torment proponents do, right?

I mean, when He told us to "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you", of course we were all supposed to understand that, all the while, the One who commanded us to love our enemies is planning to torture His enemies alive for eternity. >_>
___________





What's nonsense here is your claiming to love us and not trying to be unkind in one breath, and then condemn us to burn alive for eternity in God's name unless we turn back to the eternal torment doctrine (i.e. your way of thinking, and you cannot prove it is also God's way) in the next breath. I mean, come on.

And also, while we're on the subject of, in your quoted words at the top of this post, what "He was plainly saying", didn’t Jesus say somewhere in at least one of the four gospels that someone who calls his brother a fool would be in danger of those very fires of Gehenna/hell?
So, is it not you who needs to watch his words or change how he thinks lest he come under the same condemnation with which he was implicitly condemning both the conditionalists/annihilationists and universality in this thread?

Your argument isn't with me, its with Jesus, and its a foolish one.

I called no one out by by name, but since you chose to identify yourself, so be it. You're making foolish statements based on foolish assumptions. You may be a rocket scientist for all I know, but your arguments regarding this topic are those of a fool.

And again, your argument is not with me, but Jesus. If you think He meant something other than what he said, take it up with Him.

And by the way, here's the words of Christ you referenced in context.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift."

Christ said we should be careful about calling our "brothers" fools, and that it was a dangerous thing to do. And He's right. But you aren't speaking like any brother or sister I've ever known. "Didn't Jesus say", those were your exact words. Anyone who's known Christ more than fifteen minutes wouldn't have to ask, they would know. And you seem a little angry as well, Jesus gives peace to His followers.

To be perfectly frank, you sound like someone who has done some pretty terrible things in their life and is trying desperately to convince themselves they won't be facing eternal punishment one day.

Guess what, you're not the first.

Here's another shocking statement for you. I really do love you, I'm not the least bit angry with you, and Jesus loves you way way more than I do. Why not let go of all that sin and misplaced anger and put your trust in the one who gave His life for you? You'll have to repent of course, and forgive whoever hurt you and made you so angry. But you wouldn't be the first one to ever do that either.

Hell sucks, whether it lasts fifteen minutes or fifteen million years. You font want to go there. The worst thing about hell isn't its duration or even the temperatures. The worst thing about hell, is you have to pass through heaven to get there. And there's no going back.

May God be merciful to you, and richly bless you with the knowledge of His son.

Much Love. Much peace.

 

[timothyu]

You font want to go there.

No people don't, but they hope their enemies do. Such thinking will assure them a seat beside their enemies on the way down.