Fundamentalist or Evangelical?

[dms1972]

What is the difference between these two groups? I've been in churches, and had elders trying to instruct me, and they claim to be Evangelical, but I think they are closer to Fundamentalist.

Here a couple of things that makes me think they are fundamentalist, they seemed to not agree with and tried to steer me away from modern paraphrases like JB Phillip's Letters to Young Churches. They try to steer me away from pop/rock music, and some CCM. In their favor I suppose I could score them for showing an interest to get me on the what they believe to be the right path as it were. But its their claim to be evangelical? Maybe they are and maybe JB Phillips is questionable for some in the evangelical community? But I get the feeling a lot of stuff is going to be off limits for me if I submit to these sorts of churches. I like to know where they are coming from, what in their view a christian can and can't do, listen to, read etc. as some groups can be extreme in what they regard as worldly.

Is there anything in particular that distinguishes Evangelicals from Fundamentalists?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What is the difference between these two groups? I've been in churches, and had elders trying to instruct me, and they claim to be Evangelical, but I think they are closer to Fundamentalist.

Here a couple of things that makes me think they are fundamentalist, they seemed to not agree with and tried to steer me away from modern paraphrases like JB Phillip's Letters to Young Churches. They try to steer me away from pop/rock music, and some CCM. In their favor I suppose I could score them for showing an interest to get me on the what they believe to be the right path as it were. But its their claim to be evangelical? Maybe they are and maybe JB Phillips is questionable for some in the evangelical community? But I get the feeling a lot of stuff is going to be off limits for me if I submit to these churches. I like to know where they are coming from, what in their view can and can't do, listen to, read etc. as some groups can be extreme in what they regard as worldly.

Is there anything in particular that distinguishes Evangelicals from Fundamentalists?

Yes. One point of difference is that Fundamentalists tend toward a sort of interpretive reductionism resulting in a more legalisitic or rigid form of literal theologizing.

By contrast, Evangelicals, while also tending to hold firm to certain theological ideas that Fundamentalists hold to, tend toward a more contextualized sensibility, and this sensibility can loosen up the process of theologizing which then places evangelicals over a small spectrum or range of interpretive readings of the inspired Bible. Like Fundamentalists (e.g. Church of Christ, Independent Baptist, SDA, etc.), Evangelicals will vary with each other in their general readings between denominations, but overall they will still hold a conservative political position and still see the Bible as inspired or even inerrant and do so without 'selling out' too much toward liberal tendencies.

 

[ChubbyCherub]

I would say that I'm a mixture of both.

Fundamentalists are very literal in the way that they read and practice the Bible and, yes, many things would be 'forbidden' that are worldly including pop music, certain movies, certain ways of dress, drinking alcohol and/or drinking to excess, piercings, make up, playing cards, rolling dice etc.

Evangelism is also very biblical, as compared to other denominations, but are very heavily focused (IMO) in the way the bible can be practiced in the modern life. The above activities would not be encouraged if they distract from God but I don't see them as heavily discouraged and make up, piercings etc are definitely much more accepted.

I prefer Fundamentalism, because that is how I was raised and I do believe it is biblical, but it is not widely practiced locally so I am currently part of a non-denomination church which is sola scriptura in so much as the mission of Christians, the message of Jesus etc.

 

[BobRyan]

What is the difference between these two groups? I've been in churches, and had elders trying to instruct me, and they claim to be Evangelical, but I think they are closer to Fundamentalist.

Here a couple of things that makes me think they are fundamentalist, they seemed to not agree with and tried to steer me away from modern paraphrases like JB Phillip's Letters to Young Churches. They try to steer me away from pop/rock music, and some CCM. In their favor I suppose I could score them for showing an interest to get me on the what they believe to be the right path as it were. But its their claim to be evangelical? Maybe they are and maybe JB Phillips is questionable for some in the evangelical community? But I get the feeling a lot of stuff is going to be off limits for me if I submit to these sorts of churches. I like to know where they are coming from, what in their view a christian can and can't do, listen to, read etc. as some groups can be extreme in what they regard as worldly.

Is there anything in particular that distinguishes Evangelicals from Fundamentalists?

1. Type this in your browser address/search box

"compare fundamentalist to evangelicalcompare fundamentalist to evangelical

2. As they note, fundamentalist is a subset of evangelical

My denomination is strongly aligned with both.

But we do not tell people not to read
J.B. Philips paraphrase. However we tell them it is a paraphrase and not a direct translation. Its like reading "one man's commentary" on the Bible

 

[dms1972]

2Philovoid, has mentioned the area of Biblical interpretation. There are a a couple of other areas where I find christians differ somewhat, one is to do with relations with the Roman catholic church, and other churches they regard in error. The other is worldliness, what is considered worldly, what you can listen to, read, going to the cinema etc. Some churches seem quite strict in this latter area. Is this something that can be the case with both evangelicals and fundamentalists?

 

[dms1972]

But we do not tell people not to read
J.B. Philips paraphrase. However we tell them it is a paraphrase and not a direct translation. Its like reading "one man's commentary" on the Bible

Re: JB Phillips, and Letters to Young Churches. In that its not like a new translation (eg THE NIV), done by a team of experts across denominational boundaries. Phillips did offer his initial paraphrase of Colossians to CS Lewis to read and to get his opinion, who praised it and encouraged him to continue. I don't know if Phillips sought the opinions anyone else? But while I understand what you mean by "its one man's commentary", I think its more than a commentary, even though not a official translation.

 

[dms1972]

I think what I am asking about, is how christians relate to the "world" and how do different groups fundamentalist, evangelical, reformed, liberal etc. understand this, are there fundamental differences between them?

See this article

The Right Kind of Worldliness

The Official Magazine of the Christian Reformed Church

www.thebanner.org

 

[PloverWing]

I think what I am asking about, is how christians relate to the "world" and how do different groups fundamentalist, evangelical, reformed, liberal etc. understand this, are there fundamental differences between them?

See this article

That's an interesting perspective on the question. I'm used to thinking of the categories "Fundamentalist", "Evangelical", and "Liberal" as attitudes toward modern scholarship, with Fundamentalists rejecting most modern scholarship of science, history, and biblical studies, Liberals embracing these kinds of scholarship, and Evangelicals trying to carve out a difficult middle ground.

But there's the cultural stuff too, as you've observed: Movies, drinking, dancing, card-playing, and so forth. I'd forgotten about that aspect of it.

A classic book on this subject is "Christ and Culture", by H. Richard Niebuhr. One reasonably good summary is here: “Christ and Culture” by Richard Niebuhr: Book Summary . The Wikipedia page also isn't bad: H. Richard Niebuhr - Wikipedia . (But read the book!)

I don't know where I, personally, fall in Niebuhr's categories. I think I've been moving from "Christ the transformer of culture" to "Christ and culture in paradox", a path similar to the one taken by Niebuhr's brother Reinhold Niebuhr, as he (like me) got older and more pessimistic. But I don't have a satisfying answer at the moment.

One of the paragraphs at the end of your article caught my eye:

First, Christians worry about some forms of worldliness more than others. Radio and novels were not a concern for the CRC in the 1920s and 1930s, or less so. The CRC worried about Freudian therapy, women’s clothing, and birth control, but not so much about consumerism generally, the pursuit of wealth, and the inequities of capitalism, despite the Great Depression.

This is one of the things I've realized as I've gotten older, and it's part of what makes me more pessimistic than I used to be. Going along with racial segregation or unrestrained capitalism is every bit as worldly as dancing or watching movies. When I first realized this, some years ago, my sense was that the Evangelical churches of my childhood were straining at gnats and swallowing camels. On longer reflection, I've come to realize that it's really really hard to separate one's self from one's culture. There are aspects of my culture that I don't even see, because it's the air I breathe and the water I swim in.

All this to say, I don't have a simple answer, but I admire the problem.

 

[dms1972]

That's an interesting perspective on the question. I'm used to thinking of the categories "Fundamentalist", "Evangelical", and "Liberal" as attitudes toward modern scholarship, with Fundamentalists rejecting most modern scholarship of science, history, and biblical studies, Liberals embracing these kinds of scholarship, and Evangelicals trying to carve out a difficult middle ground.

Yes. But I am not sure its the right perspective, or if I am asking about it the right way. I'm coming at this as a non-believer now, but who used to to church, and had a christian upbringing - sunday school, services etc, but yet I always struggled with christian living, and my relationship with "the things of the world" so I don't know if I really had faith. I just find some churches seem to leave it to the individual and their conscience to decide what they watch, listen to etc. Basically what seems to happen is for one christian they work through the matter and they believe its ok to go to the cinema, for another its not, but each is convinced in their own mind, neither looks down on the other. But in other christian circles (correct me if I am wrong here) stuff like playing cards, or even games of chance without money involved, going to the pub, the cinema, dance hall etc, speaking in tongues, and lots of other things can be taboo, and it differs from church to church sometimes. From what I have read some groups regarded even drinking tea or coffee taboo in the 19th century!

So what I am asking: is this viewing of certain things, activities etc. as taboo, is this something one would encounter more with certain christian groups, denominations etc, than others, or is it something is present to varying degrees in all christian groups?

 

[PloverWing]

So what I am asking is this viewing of certain things, activities etc. as taboo, is this something one would encounter more with certain christian groups, denominations etc, than others, or is it something is present to varying degrees in all christian groups?

If you're asking in particular about prohibitions against drinking, dancing, cards, movies, and similar recreational activities, I can speak a little from my own experience of churches. I've encountered these prohibitions amongst some kinds of Baptists, some kinds of Presbyterian and other Reformed groups, and some nondenominational churches. All of these are churches that have been influenced by the Reformed tradition (but see note below). By contrast, I haven't generally seen these prohibitions in Episcopal, Catholic, or Lutheran churches.

My "note below" is that I don't have enough experience with the PCUSA, UCC, or American Baptists to know how they feel about these recreational prohibitions. Perhaps someone from one of these traditions can speak to it. I'm also not sure about the conservative Lutherans like the LCMS or WELS (they're inerrantists, but I don't know if they'd forbid drinking a beer while watching a movie). Also, to my Orthodox friends: I haven't forgotten you exist; I just have no experience of your culture, sorry.

If you're still looking for a church, and you're bothered by the prohibitions on things like movies, would you consider going outside the nondenominational tradition and trying something like a Lutheran church? (Or maybe PCUSA, if they give satisfactory answers to your questions?)

 

[dms1972]

Thanks for your reply. I'm not in the US, and not sure there is many Lutheran churches here.

I feel in some ways I have kind of passed out of christianity now. Having gone to church till I was about 14, I then drifted, then around the age of 17 or 18 I started to attempt to go back, exploring various churches, but found it difficult. If people spoke to me it was just to direct me to were the youth fellowship was, which I didn't really want to get involved in at that point.

I've always tended more towards an understanding that lines up somewhat with existentialism and existentialist christianity (eg. Kierkegaard, Bultmann) Intellectually however I have explored quite a bit, including Hegel, Heigdegger, Neitzsche, and postmodernism, yet I cannot say I have a clear worldview. I've read plenty of other christian stuff too. But I think there is a kind of gnostic undercurrent in my spirituality.

 

[PloverWing]

Ah. In that case, it's not very helpful that I've been throwing the names of American denominations at you. Sorry.

I didn't know that the no-drinking-no-dancing thing was found outside the US. I also thought that Christian Fundamentalism was primarily an American phenomenon. Well, I get to learn new things every day.

I know that there are Christians in various parts of the world who are well-read in philosophy and other subjects, because I've read their writings. There are also many Christians in the world who aren't distracted by things like prohibitions on pop music and dancing. But I don't know about specifics of churches in your area, unfortunately.

Blessings to you in your journey, wherever it leads.

 

[dms1972]

No fundamentalism exists outside the US too. I think a lot of the churches here (N. Ireland) tend toward fundamentalist, or evangelical. We have many denominations, there is at least four Presbyterian denominations, and many of the others Anglican, Methodist, Baptist etc, but I don't think there are very many Lutheran churches here.

 

[lismore]

What is the difference between these two groups? I've been in churches, and had elders trying to instruct me, and they claim to be Evangelical, but I think they are closer to Fundamentalist.

Hello! Part of it might be how they relate to secular society around them. Evangelicals might see themselves as in the world but not of it, trying to permeate many parts of society with a gospel witness. Fundamentals on the other hand might want to come out and be separate from the world, protect themselves form being polluted by the world and worldly things.

For example nightclubbing. An evangelical might go along if invited, but draw the line somewhere in regards to amounts of alcohol, the skimpiness of clothing and sex, while trying to do some good for their friends. A fundamentalist would perhaps say no to the whole experience.

God Bless

 

[PloverWing]

No fundamentalism exists outside the US too. I think a lot of the churches here (N. Ireland) tend toward fundamentalist, or evangelical. We have many denominations, there is at least four Presbyterian denominations, and many of the others Anglican, Methodist, Baptist etc, but I don't think there are very many Lutheran churches here.

If you were in the US, I'd suggest visiting an Episcopal church, as we're mostly free from the no-drinking-no-dancing prohibitions. But I don't know enough about the Anglican congregations in Northern Ireland to know how culturally similar they are to our Episcopal parishes.