Can Truth Be Known? How

[Fervent]

I'm sorry you were misled by one statement.

The title is Can Truth Be Known? How
The subject matter is what many philosophers debate for centuries, and never come to a conclusion.... which is, Can Truth Be Known? How

The debate isn't just can truth be known, but to what extent and through what method.

The question - As a Christian, how does one determine what is truth? is to hear from all who identify as Christian, how they would answer the question.

There's so much loaded in this question that it would take volumes upon volumes to answer. Is personal identity the sole criteria? Or are we limiting it to a particular theological bent?

The body of the OP does not focus on a Christian having the truth, but rather, persons who did not have the truth, finding it... and how.

I hope that clears things up for you.

Seems viciously circular

 

[concretecamper]

That not the ring of truth and I did not have that in mind

I'm sorry, I can only respond to what you post, not what you think.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus said His Church would be built upon the rock solid foundation of God's truth. Man, of course, has other ideas as they built/build their own churches.

 

[Clare73]

I think you're missing the point. If someone has God, then God will lead/guide them. Since Jesus is the Shepard and we form our covenant with him, then we trust in his guidance. Can God use people and scripture to back up the truth? Yes, but without God's guidance, we can fall way off the road. Jesus is the "way, the truth and the light", all you technically need is God and he will guide/direct. When you start adding other things as a "requirement", you're essentially saying God can't guide correctly to truth without other stuff. If he really needs to, he'll show up himself. Loads of testimonies of God showing up in dreams and such, for people in other religions or even atheists. All you NEED is God, but scripture does help. As I said, it's an aid, but it shouldn't ever replace your walk/relationship with him on a personal basis.

The word of God is more than an "aid," it is
the source of spiritual regeneration (1 Pe 1:23),
spirit and life (Jn 6:63),
living and active. . .dividing soul and spirit. . .judging thoughts and attitudes of the heart (Heb 4:12).

 

[CoreyD]

The bible is only as good as our relationship with Jesus is.

Is this written anywhere in the scriptures? No?
Then it is your personal belief.

Contrary to that personal belief...
Acts 14:1
At Iconium, Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue, where they spoke so well that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.

Acts 17:2
2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,” he declared.
4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few leading women.

What a contrast to the multitudes of Jews who did have a relationship with God, but of whom the scriptures said... But as for Israel he says: “All day long I have held out My hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.” Romans 10:21

This, after it was said...
Romans 10:20
And Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those not seeking Me; I became manifest to those not inquiring after Me."

Not seeking God? That's pretty far from God, isn't it.... and yet, they found the truth. How?
Romans 10:18
But I ask, did they not hear? Indeed: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."

They heard.
What did they hear?
The message of the good news that was preached by those sent out.

Again...
Romans 10:13-15
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach?
15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

It was the message from the scriptures they heard.
That's why they were recorded, and preserved today... so that people can hear - whether heathen, or miserably lost.
Jesus set the example, when he repeatedly used the scriptures in his ministry... Even to the Devil, he said, "It is written."
The apostles followed suit, and used the scriptures, both to Jews and Greeks.

One cannot get close to God without the scriptures, so if it depends on how close one is to God, that person who is far from God would be completely hopeless when he is reading and studying the Bible.
However, since the Bible does not support the notion that God pours his spirit on the lost one, so that he somehow gets close to God, but rather, he uses his followers whom he guides by spirit, to teach such individuals (Acts 8::26-40), they can develop a relationship with God, and draw close to him, as they learn the truth... from the scriptures.

It seems you are moving the goalposts somewhat. Unbelievers are unable to know truth apart from GOD revealing it to them. Same way with believers.

I'm not going to ask how God reveals it to them, since that question seems to be the most difficult for those of you posting against the OP.
The OP as well as my other posts, makes it clear that God reveals the truth to unbelievers, by means of his followers who use the scriptures skillfully like Paul did, in imitation of the master apostle, Jesus Christ.

It really is a shame that the masses identifying as Christian, do not follow their example... One reason Christianity of this world is so divided.
However, the scriptures do say that this will be the case, and Jesus will condemn all who are saying Lord Lord, but not doing what he commanded. Matthew 7:21-23
Luke 6:46

Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do what I say?​

I have no need for an argument on here anymore, good day.

No need to argue, when we can discuss.
Well goodbye to you, as well.
Pretty acid in here. I wonder why... I must have done a very bad thing.

Considering the fact that I am not tickling itching ears, that certainly is a reason to hate me, since the religious people of Jesus day hated Jesus for that same reason, and Jesus was not going to tell people what they want to hear, nor agree with them on what was false.
Neither am I. I welcome hatred for speaking the truth.
Luke 6:22. 23

Blessed are you when the people hate you, and when they exclude you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man. Rejoice on that day and jump for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For their fathers used to treat the prophets the same way.​

Now, I feel like Jeremiah, when he was sent to fellow Jews with a message they did not want to hear.

 

[CoreyD]

'The debate isn't just can truth be known, but to what extent and through what method.

To what extent can truth be known?
No. That is not part of the OP. I'm not sure where you read that.
The OP refers only to the truth Jesus refers to. John 17:17

There's so much loaded in this question that it would take volumes upon volumes to answer. Is personal identity the sole criteria? Or are we limiting it to a particular theological bent?

Sorry. In trying to simplify what, to my mind was a simple question, I may have complicated it.
So, someone asks you how does one determine what is the truth? I left out "the". Pardon me.
How would you answer the question.

Seems viciously circular

The body of the OP does not focus on a Christian having the truth, but rather, persons who did not have the truth, finding it... and how. is circular?
Do you mind saying how it's circular?

 

[Fervent]

To what extent can truth be known?
No. That is not part of the OP. I'm not sure where you read that.
The OP refers only to the truth Jesus refers to. John 17:17

The full scope of the philosophical question is not restricted by your OP.

Sorry. In trying to simplify what, to my mind was a simple question, I may have complicated it.
So, someone asks you how does one determine what is the truth? I left out "the". Pardon me.
How would you answer the question.

It's not a missing "the", it's the wheel that is created. If you don't know what the truth is, nor the appropriate method for making the identification, how do you go about answering either question?

The body of the OP does not focus on a Christian having the truth, but rather, persons who did not have the truth, finding it... and how. is circular?
Do you mind saying how it's circular?

The circularity is in the claimed act of finding it, particularly in the context of John 17:17. It seems you're not asking a question for the sake of exploration, but to launch off into pontification.

 

[CoreyD]

I'm sorry, I can only respond to what you post, not what you think.

I have not asked you to respond to what I think.
Responding to what I said is most welcomed.
What did I say the ring of truth refers to, in post #39, and post #56?

 

[timothyu]

The truth the Jews did not want to hear was that they had failed the mission the Father had given the house of Israel, where it was being shown by Paul, the 12, and the 70 sent to the 70 nations under control of the elohim, that Jesus had accomplished what they could not. Pride overcame their fall. They were failed servants even though they like Christians today, felt boastful about the relationship to the Father.

 

[CoreyD]

The full scope of the philosophical question is not restricted by your OP.

Well you just struck the cord that inspired the OP - the cord that asserts the truth cannot objectively be presented by any of us, but "it's only another opinion".
The OP is created for the purpose of laying that satanic lie to rest.
The question is not philosophical at all.

To make such a claim is to diminish or invalidate Jesus' words at John 4:23, 24; John 17:17... as well as a few other texts, including 1 Timothy 2::3, 4.

It's not a missing "the", it's the wheel that is created. If you don't know what the truth is, nor the appropriate method for making the identification, how do you go about answering either question?

It's simple.
You tell the person asking, Christians don't know what truth is.
Not only would you give them mixed emotions - whether to be puzzled or laugh, but you would have added to the confusion and perhaps the meaninglessness of Christianity today.

Do Jesus' followers know the truth?
Can Jesus' followers know the appropriate method for making the identification?
Can Jesus' followers answer the question?

The circularity is in the claimed act of finding it, particularly in the context of John 17:17. It seems you're not asking a question for the sake of exploration, but to launch off into pontification.

From your response and another poster, it seems the OP isn't being read in full, or the comments aren't being connected, or linked to each other. Or something...

Acts 17:1-4, 10-12
It was Paul's custom, to reason with people from the Scriptures; explaining and proving by giving evidence of what was true. Acts 17:2, 3
The result:
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few leading women. Acts 17:4

Those in Berea examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
The scriptures were what revealed truth to them. They could compare what Paul said, with the scriptures to see if what Paul said was in line with truth.
The scriptures were like a measuring rule.

Did the Bereans find the truth?
Was it clearly outlined in the OP what method led to their finding it?
It wasn't John 17:17, which says what the truth is.

 

[Fervent]

Well you just struck the cord that inspired the OP - the cord that asserts the truth cannot objectively be presented by any of us, but "it's only another opinion".
The OP is created for the purpose of laying that satanic lie to rest.
The question is not philosophical at all.

To make such a claim is to diminish or invalidate Jesus' words at John 4:23, 24; John 17:17... as well as a few other texts, including 1 Timothy 2::3, 4.

Pressing the question is not the same as making a claim.

It's simple.
You tell the person asking, Christians don't know what truth is.
Now only would you give them mixed emotions - whether to be puzzled or laugh, but you would have added to the confusion and perhaps the meaninglessness of Christianity today.

A dash of humility goes a long way.

Do Jesus' followers know the truth?

The question isn't do, but how?

Can Jesus' followers know the appropriate method for making the identification?

You tell me

Can Jesus' followers answer the question?

It takes engaging with it to make a determination

From your response and another poster, it seems the OP isn't being read in full, or the comments aren't being connected, or linked to each other. Or something...

the thread had been ongoing for a while when I jumped in, so my response wasn't directly to the OP

Acts 17:1-4, 10-12
It was Paul's custom, to reason with people from the Scriptures; explaining and proving by giving evidence of what was true. Acts 17:2, 3
The result:
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few leading women. Acts 17:4

Those in Berea examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
The scriptures were what revealed truth to them. They could compare what Paul said, with the scriptures to see if what Paul said was in line with truth.
The scriptures were like a measuring rule.

Did the Bereans find the truth?
Was it clearly outlined in the OP what method led to their finding it?
It wasn't John 17:17, which says what the truth is.

This is exactly the circularity I was referring to