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Is purgatory a Biblical or extra biblical teaching?

narnia59

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Well said - not one of those points has to do with purgatory -
Actually they do since the entire point of Purgatory is to complete our sanctification so we are indeed perfected and ready for heaven.

If Scripture is clear that our sanctifcation is something that is an ongoing process, and nothing in Scripture indicates that we are all completely sanctified at the time of our death, the only conclusion is that there is something that has to happen to us after death that completes that process.

You also have not answered my question regarding 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 that tells us that at the time of our judgment, when all our deeds are disclosed and those not worthy are burned off, and that we will be saved, but only as through fire, what do you think that means?
 
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Actually they do since the entire point of Purgatory is to complete our sanctification so we are indeed perfected and ready for heaven.
The teaching of purgatory - as already linked and shown - did not exist for 1,200 years of Christianity.

You also have not answered my question regarding 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 that tells us that at the time of our judgment, when all our deeds are disclosed and those not worthy are burned off, and that we will be saved, but only as through fire, what do you think that means?
It means EXACTLY what it says - our works - the things we do, what we say - are judged. We are saved.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
What does that mean? Does it mean after we leaving this life we are judged and then might have to spend sometime in jail (purgatory) until we get our act right? or does it mean exactly what it says?

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
One time - not after a jail sentence - one time.
 
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narnia59

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The teaching of purgatory - as already linked and shown - did not exist for 1,200 years of Christianity.
I see above where you said based on a cursory AI search – “ The fully developed concept of purgatory, involving post-mortem fire and satisfaction for venial sins, emerged centuries later (formalized at the Second Council of Lyon in 1274 and the Council of Trent in the 16th century).”

That type of reasoning and scholarship is most problematic. It’s the same methodology used by the Jehovah Witnesses when they say that it is a “fact” that the dogma of the Trinity is based on a late 4th century “invention”. Why? Because the word “Trinity” does not appear in any Christian writings until the 3rd century and because the Catholic Church did not formalize the dogma of the Trinity until the 4th century.

No different is your reasoning here. It fails to recognize three key things:

  • Just because we do not have a preserved writing that directly speaks to a teaching prior to a certain point in time, that is not evidence that the belief was not in place prior to that.
  • Just because specific language is not used it does not mean that a belief was not conceptually reflected earlier than that.
  • The Church quite often does not formalize a dogma until there is a heresy that has gained ground and needs to be addressed. The Arian heresy is what required the dogma of the Trinity to be formalized and made more precise and robust in the 4th century.
The other problem is that a cursory AI search is not true scholarship at all. For reference, if you do not have a copy of “An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine” by John Newman, it would be worth your time to acquire one. Regarding the doctrine of Purgatory, he begins with Clement of Alexandria (150-215AD) and talks about sins being purged by discipline (much likes Hebrews 12) and that “the necessity of this purifying discipline is such, that if it does not take place in this life, it must after death, and is then to be effected by fire, not by a destructive, but a discriminating fire, pervading the soul which passes through it.” Hmm, sounds like Purgatory to me.

For reference, the first complete and accurate listing of the books which comprise the New Testament is from Athanasius in 367, 150 years later. So to say that the conceptual understanding of a purifying fire after death is not a part of the belief of the early church is simply not true.

Newman continues with his citations, St. Cyprian (210-258), The Acts of the Martyrs, the Eucharistic prayer of the faithful in the 4th century, and St. Cyril (376-444). While he doesn’t reference St. Augustine (354-430) and St. John Chrysostom (347-407) both speak of our prayers being able to help the dead. To what avail would that be if they were believed to all be in heaven?

So in the interest of honest scholarship, it simply isn’t accurate to profess that the teaching of Purgatory didn’t exist for the first 1200 years of the Church. No more accurate than the Jehovah Witness claim that the teaching of the Trinity didn’t exist for the first 400 years of the Church. Same flawed scholarship leading to flawed conclusions in both examples.
 
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narnia59

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It means EXACTLY what it says - our works - the things we do, what we say - are judged. We are saved.


We are indeed saved but only as through fire
What does being saved only as through fire mean to you?

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
What does that mean? Does it mean after we leaving this life we are judged and then might have to spend sometime in jail (purgatory) until we get our act right? or does it mean exactly what it says?

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
One time - not after a jail sentence - one time.

It means we are saved. But being saved does not mean that we will not experience God’s discipline. Isn’t the author of Hebrews writing to “saved” people when he says that when God disciplines us he is treating us like sons? Being saved does not mean we will not be disciplined by God to perfect us in holiness. Being completely sanctified is not optional.

If you leave this life and you are not perfected in holiness, not sure I would call it ‘jail’. But if you have not yet become “righteous made perfect” (Hebrews 12:23), God still has some work to do with you.

So say for example, Mr. X has held a grudge against his brother for many years due to a perceived wrong. Mr. X dies still holding that grudge. He hates his brother.

Do you really think Christ is going to say “Mr. X, you’re dead now so regardless of what sin you’re still attached to, heaven is open to you? Keep your grudge, hold on to your hatred because all the saved are welcome no matter what sin you bring with you?”

Or is Christ going to say we still have a little work to do don’t we? About that grudge….”
 
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