Morality without Absolute Morality

[Stopped_lurking]

Knowledge, to start with. But any possible reason a human being may attain authority, God has that attribute in excess.

What does god know? God has never demonstrated any knowledge.

Is there a threshold, where if one knows enough one gains the authority to determine how others should behave? Is there a explicit argument why knowledge would give someone the authority to determine others should behave?

What do you believe are the possible reasons a human being may invoke to attain authority to determine how others should behave? Can you list them and how do we know god has them in excess?

Society seems to have no problem with creating laws that limits what others can do, and who gets to decide those laws is determined in elections where I live. So if god presented its candidate laws we could vote on them I guess.

 

[Fervent]

What does god know? God has never demonstrated any knowledge.

Is there a threshold, where if one knows enough one gains the authority to determine how others should behave? Is there a explicit argument why knowledge would give someone the authority to determine others should behave?

What do you believe are the possible reasons a human being may invoke to attain authority to determine how others should behave? Can you list them and how do we know god has them in excess?

Society seems to have no problem with creating laws that limits what others can do, and who gets to decide those laws is determined in elections where I live. So if god presented its candidate laws we could vote on them I guess.

Look, I'm not going to entertain your silliness. You think your personal preferences are the same thing as morality, so I'm not going to try to answer questions about what makes an authority since you're trading on nothing but your opinion. Give me something to work with and maybe we can discuss the issues, but so long as it all just boils down to your unqualified opinions there's no reason for me to engage with you.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Look, I'm not going to entertain your silliness. You think your personal preferences are the same thing as morality, so I'm not going to try to answer questions about what makes an authority since you're trading on nothing but your opinion. Give me something to work with and maybe we can discuss the issues, but so long as it all just boils down to your unqualified opinions there's no reason for me to engage with you.

Your are only trading on your unqualified opinion about god. Of course we choose who we interact with. I'll keep commenting though.

 

[Fervent]

Your are only trading on your unqualified opinion about god. Of course we choose who we interact with. I'll keep commenting though.

So you claim, but you've provided nothing substantive to give any credence to your ability to evaluate. You can't seem to distinguish between your personal preferences and opinions and factual statements and present a thoroughly inconsistent ethic as if your opinions qualify as moral propositions. My refusal to engage is because there's no standard for us to discuss the issue, because your opinion is built upon nothing.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

So you claim, but you've provided nothing substantive to give any credence to your ability to evaluate. You can't seem to distinguish between your personal preferences and opinions and factual statements and present a thoroughly inconsistent ethic as if your opinions qualify as moral propositions. My refusal to engage is because there's no standard for us to discuss the issue, because your opinion is built upon nothing.

Well you demonstrably didn't qualify what god knows in the earlier post. So it seems you only present your unqualified opinion about god. So what do we know about god's knowledge?

 

[Fervent]

Well you demonstrably didn't qualify what god knows in the earlier post. So it seems you only present your unqualified opinion about god. So what do we know about god's knowledge?

Again, provide me with some objective standard to make evaluations and we can engage. Until then, I see no reason to entertain your questions because you're trading on sheer ignorant opinion.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Again, provide me with some objective standard to make evaluations and we can engage. Until then, I see no reason to entertain your questions because you're trading on sheer ignorant opinion.

Standards of knowledge? Sure, we know a lot about natural sciences against which we could evaluate god's knowledge. We could also test god's knowledge of languages. We could give god some standardised tests. If you want a specific one we could use Högskoleprovet.

 

[partinobodycular]

Knowledge, to start with.

So how does knowledge give one authority?

 

[Fervent]

So how does knowledge give one authority?

It is only one possibility, what do you think gives one authority? Let's start by establishing a baseline.

 

[partinobodycular]

It is only one possibility, what do you think gives one authority? Let's start by establishing a baseline.

Then first we need to establish the relationship between authority and morality, otherwise establishing authority is pointless. Agreed?

 

[Fervent]

Then first we need to establish the relationship between authority and morality, otherwise establishing authority is pointless. Agreed?

Well, first we'd have to establish an objective standard for morality, otherwise we're just trading personal opinions without any foundation. And as I was not speaking of authority in a general sense, but moral authority there's no need to establish any additional relationship.

 

[partinobodycular]

Well, first we'd have to establish an objective standard for morality, otherwise we're just trading personal opinions without any foundation. And as I was not speaking of authority in a general sense, but moral authority there's no need to establish any additional relationship.

So you're proposing that the objective standard for morality is established via authority... is that correct? Via edict.

 

[Fervent]

So you're proposing that the objective standard for morality is established via authority... is that correct? Via edict.

No, I'm proposing the objective moral standard is in the eternal, unchanging nature of God's person. His authority is a separate issue.

 

[partinobodycular]

No, I'm proposing the objective moral standard is in the eternal, unchanging nature of God's person.

Well that seems rather arbitrary. Why should I presume God's person to be an objective moral standard?

 

[Stopped_lurking]

It is only one possibility, what do you think gives one authority? Let's start by establishing a baseline.

Instead of asking a question, perhaps you could explain why you think that knowledge confers authority to determine how others should behave?

 

[Fervent]

Well that seems rather arbitrary. Why should I presume God's person to be an objective moral standard?

It's a take it or leave it proposition. As soon as you've got something that isn't just your opinion to offer, let me know.

 

[Fervent]

Instead of asking a question, perhaps you could explain why you think that knowledge confers authority to determine how others should behave?

Nah, because we've established no common ground for engagement so there's no point in just swapping opinions.

 

[partinobodycular]

It's a take it or leave it proposition. As soon as you've got something that isn't just your opinion to offer, let me know.

But you're just arbitrarily proposing God as a standard for objective morality without first establishing what differentiates moral from immoral. So how am I supposed to tell if God qualifies as its standard?

So if you really want to establish a baseline, then we first need to establish what differentiates moral from immoral.

 

[Fervent]

But you're just arbitrarily proposing God as a standard for objective morality without first establishing what differentiates moral from immoral. So how am I supposed to tell if God qualifies as its standard?

So if you really want to establish a baseline, then we first need to establish what differentiates moral from immoral.

As I said, take it or leave it. If all morality is just arbitrary anyway, one arbitrary standard is as good as any other. If you want to talk, you'll have to present me with a reason for thinking you're capable of making an evaluation.

 

[partinobodycular]

If you want to talk, you'll have to present me with a reason for thinking you're capable of making an evaluation.

You've given me nothing to evaluate.

You've given me:

... take it or leave it.