The Church Under Fire Part 1

[Christsfreeservant]

On May 26, 2023, the Lord led me to begin to write a short (29 pages total) book titled, “The Church Under Fire.” It is a short book with seven chapters, plus a forward, which talks about the spiritual condition of much of what is the church today, or what is called “the church” today. I am certain that the written portion of this has been (past) posted everywhere that I post my daily devotions, so if you want to read it there, you can, but I will also supply a link to the whole book, if you are interested in reading it.

Today I was being encouraged by the Lord to do some video talks where I read the chapters of the book, for those who prefer to have the book read to them rather than to read it themselves. I did read the forward and chapter one in this first video, but I am not certain yet how the other chapters will be divided up, but probably I will do one at a time. But the point of it all is to look at where the church has gone, and to what some of the repercussions have been as a result of some of them straying from God’s original purpose.

Forward

May 26, 2023

We are now living in the last days before the return of Jesus Christ, and the church, the body of Christ, the universal body of followers of Jesus Christ, is under persecution. But the persecution isn’t all physical, and it isn’t all outright and obvious, but much of it is very subtle and devious. And much of the persecution is coming from within the gatherings of the church (or what is falsely being called “church”), and from others who profess faith in Jesus Christ, and even from some pastors and elders and other church leaders.

Now, I am not certain when this all began, but I think that I began to really become aware of the magnitude of this situation beginning in 1999. Yet, I had gone through many difficult church situations over my lifetime, so I was somewhat aware already that something was terribly wrong. And now we were in a church fellowship (me, my husband, and our four adult children, plus one son’s wife), and it had been going well for a while. But then things began to change, and our children were not happy with how things were going there. And they were expressing their feelings to us.

So, my husband and I and our children began the adventure of trying to find a church gathering where we all could be ministered to, and where we could minister, which would be agreeable to all. And we landed on one that was way more modern than what some of us had ever experienced before, and it did take some getting used to. But at this time we had also begun a home Bible study for college age adults, since our two oldest children were both in college. And this church gathering appealed more to their age group.

But what this change of church environment did for me was it began to open my eyes to see the spiritual condition of much (or most) of the church (or what is falsely being called “church”) here in America. And it didn’t take long before I began to see a connection between a movement, which was started by Pastor Rick Warren, and what I began to see take place, not just in this one modern-driven gathering called “church,” but in others we tried out, too. For they all seemed to be following his “Purpose Driven Church” movement.

For it didn’t matter what gathering we visited, or what church denomination it was affiliated with, they all appeared to be following that same “purpose driven church” model. But I am certain that was not the only influence, but it looked like they were all using Mr. Warren’s materials for how to grow their churches, and for how to draw in large crowds of people from the world. And we were learning new phrases all the time which we had never heard before, such as “seeker sensitive” and “stay in your own lane,” etc. For I didn’t know that this movement was going on within the gatherings of the church.

But let me stop here and say that the church is not a building called “church.” And it is not a church denomination. And it should not be a corporation under the state, but it appears that most all of them are now. So, using the term “church” gets very confusing because most people now associate “church” with a building or with a church denomination or with particular religious rituals and traditions, many of which are not biblically based at all, or they are very loosely connected to the Scriptures.

But the true church, the body of Christ, is the collective body of all who have trusted in Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior of our lives, who have been crucified with Christ in death to sin, and who have been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer living as slaves to sin, but now as slaves to God and to his righteousness. We should be those who are now living under the control of the Holy Spirit, who are doing the will of God, and who are serving the Lord and one another as God has called us all to do.

Nonetheless, the church has become, for the most part, businesses of men, incorporated under the state, marketing their product to the people of the world just like any other human-based business. And so marketing books and marketing training seminars are largely replacing the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit, and these marketing goals and objectives are what are driving these “churches” rather than the leading of the Holy Spirit, and rather than the call of God on all of our lives to be his possession and to do His Work.

And, if I had not ventured out and visited many different “churches” of different denominations, I probably would not have known what is really going on under the name of “church,” and under the name of “Jesus Christ,” and under the name of “the gospel” and “salvation.” And my husband and I and our children were not just spectators in these “churches,” but we got involved in areas of ministry, which is how you can really learn what is going on behind the scenes. And that was, as I said, very eye opening for me.

The Church Under Fire Part 1

Caution: This link may contain ads

An Original Work / November 3, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Link to whole book:

The Church Under Fire Book (edited).pdf

drive.google.com

 

[martinlb]

On May 26, 2023, the Lord led me to begin to write a short (29 pages total) book titled, “The Church Under Fire.” It is a short book with seven chapters, plus a forward, which talks about the spiritual condition of much of what is the church today, or what is called “the church” today. I am certain that the written portion of this has been (past) posted everywhere that I post my daily devotions, so if you want to read it there, you can, but I will also supply a link to the whole book, if you are interested in reading it.

Today I was being encouraged by the Lord to do some video talks where I read the chapters of the book, for those who prefer to have the book read to them rather than to read it themselves. I did read the forward and chapter one in this first video, but I am not certain yet how the other chapters will be divided up, but probably I will do one at a time. But the point of it all is to look at where the church has gone, and to what some of the repercussions have been as a result of some of them straying from God’s original purpose.

Forward

May 26, 2023

We are now living in the last days before the return of Jesus Christ, and the church, the body of Christ, the universal body of followers of Jesus Christ, is under persecution. But the persecution isn’t all physical, and it isn’t all outright and obvious, but much of it is very subtle and devious. And much of the persecution is coming from within the gatherings of the church (or what is falsely being called “church”), and from others who profess faith in Jesus Christ, and even from some pastors and elders and other church leaders.

Now, I am not certain when this all began, but I think that I began to really become aware of the magnitude of this situation beginning in 1999. Yet, I had gone through many difficult church situations over my lifetime, so I was somewhat aware already that something was terribly wrong. And now we were in a church fellowship (me, my husband, and our four adult children, plus one son’s wife), and it had been going well for a while. But then things began to change, and our children were not happy with how things were going there. And they were expressing their feelings to us.

So, my husband and I and our children began the adventure of trying to find a church gathering where we all could be ministered to, and where we could minister, which would be agreeable to all. And we landed on one that was way more modern than what some of us had ever experienced before, and it did take some getting used to. But at this time we had also begun a home Bible study for college age adults, since our two oldest children were both in college. And this church gathering appealed more to their age group.

But what this change of church environment did for me was it began to open my eyes to see the spiritual condition of much (or most) of the church (or what is falsely being called “church”) here in America. And it didn’t take long before I began to see a connection between a movement, which was started by Pastor Rick Warren, and what I began to see take place, not just in this one modern-driven gathering called “church,” but in others we tried out, too. For they all seemed to be following his “Purpose Driven Church” movement.

For it didn’t matter what gathering we visited, or what church denomination it was affiliated with, they all appeared to be following that same “purpose driven church” model. But I am certain that was not the only influence, but it looked like they were all using Mr. Warren’s materials for how to grow their churches, and for how to draw in large crowds of people from the world. And we were learning new phrases all the time which we had never heard before, such as “seeker sensitive” and “stay in your own lane,” etc. For I didn’t know that this movement was going on within the gatherings of the church.

But let me stop here and say that the church is not a building called “church.” And it is not a church denomination. And it should not be a corporation under the state, but it appears that most all of them are now. So, using the term “church” gets very confusing because most people now associate “church” with a building or with a church denomination or with particular religious rituals and traditions, many of which are not biblically based at all, or they are very loosely connected to the Scriptures.

But the true church, the body of Christ, is the collective body of all who have trusted in Jesus Christ to be Lord and Savior of our lives, who have been crucified with Christ in death to sin, and who have been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer living as slaves to sin, but now as slaves to God and to his righteousness. We should be those who are now living under the control of the Holy Spirit, who are doing the will of God, and who are serving the Lord and one another as God has called us all to do.

Nonetheless, the church has become, for the most part, businesses of men, incorporated under the state, marketing their product to the people of the world just like any other human-based business. And so marketing books and marketing training seminars are largely replacing the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit, and these marketing goals and objectives are what are driving these “churches” rather than the leading of the Holy Spirit, and rather than the call of God on all of our lives to be his possession and to do His Work.

And, if I had not ventured out and visited many different “churches” of different denominations, I probably would not have known what is really going on under the name of “church,” and under the name of “Jesus Christ,” and under the name of “the gospel” and “salvation.” And my husband and I and our children were not just spectators in these “churches,” but we got involved in areas of ministry, which is how you can really learn what is going on behind the scenes. And that was, as I said, very eye opening for me.

The Church Under Fire Part 1

Caution: This link may contain ads

An Original Work / November 3, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Link to whole book:

The Church Under Fire Book (edited).pdf

drive.google.com

I'd like to offer my thoughts on a few of the things you've discussed.

I'm curious as to what you consider to be persecution the Church is under. Are you talking about places in the world where people are at risk for being Christian? Are you talking about here in the U.S.? Regarding how Christians are responded to here, I think it's important to be careful how we present ourselves and our claims. There is, as you've alluded to, an awful lot of stuff being broadcast in the name of Christ that has absolutely nothing to do with him or the Church.

Far too often, angry and uninformed people get a platform where they lash out at others with ideas having nothing to do with scripture except maybe to be called out in it. That, not surprisingly, elicits a harsh and often appropriate response from the world - and that is not persecution. The Church in the U.S. is hardly persecuted and claims it is are basically the result of people just not getting what they want, or somehow think they're entitled to. This is a slap in the face to people who risk as harsh a response as death for practicing their faith.

It would also be really helpful to get specific examples of the Rick Warren kind of approach you have found objectionable. Without any idea what you're talking about, for example, "seeker sensitive" in and of itself doesn't sound at all bad to me. In order to understand, I'd also need clarity about the idea that "the church has become, for the most part, businesses of men, incorporated under the state, marketing their product to the people of the world just like any other human-based business." I don't know what you mean by that, and without clarity and examples, it unfortunately just stands as a charge leveled at an idea rather than at specific offenses.

I'm writing this in an attempt to be helpful, not as an argument against a claim that the Church is in need of serious self-examination. I believe there has been a crisis of leadership for years, all across this country. I haven't been to any other countries but I wouldn't be surprised if this was a far-reaching matter.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I'd like to offer my thoughts on a few of the things you've discussed.

I'm curious as to what you consider to be persecution the Church is under. Are you talking about places in the world where people are at risk for being Christian? Are you talking about here in the U.S.? Regarding how Christians are responded to here, I think it's important to be careful how we present ourselves and our claims. There is, as you've alluded to, an awful lot of stuff being broadcast in the name of Christ that has absolutely nothing to do with him or the Church.

Far too often, angry and uninformed people get a platform where they lash out at others with ideas having nothing to do with scripture except maybe to be called out in it. That, not surprisingly, elicits a harsh and often appropriate response from the world - and that is not persecution. The Church in the U.S. is hardly persecuted and claims it is are basically the result of people just not getting what they want, or somehow think they're entitled to. This is a slap in the face to people who risk as harsh a response as death for practicing their faith.

It would also be really helpful to get specific examples of the Rick Warren kind of approach you have found objectionable. Without any idea what you're talking about, for example, "seeker sensitive" in and of itself doesn't sound at all bad to me. In order to understand, I'd also need clarity about the idea that "the church has become, for the most part, businesses of men, incorporated under the state, marketing their product to the people of the world just like any other human-based business." I don't know what you mean by that, and without clarity and examples, it unfortunately just stands as a charge leveled at an idea rather than at specific offenses.

I'm writing this in an attempt to be helpful, not as an argument against a claim that the Church is in need of serious self-examination. I believe there has been a crisis of leadership for years, all across this country. I haven't been to any other countries but I wouldn't be surprised if this was a far-reaching matter.

As stated, this is a book, and I am reading the chapters one by one in video form now, and not just in written form. This was a forward to this book, and the persecution being spoken of will begin to unfold one chapter at a time. But simply put it has to do with turning the church into a business to be marketed to the world just like any other business and thus altering and changing both the structure of the church, as God designed it, and the gospel message to make it more attractive to the world, and to change the focus from the church away from the body of Christ ministering to one another to a corporation (merger with) under the state, the government, inviting the government into the church to have an element of influence and control, such as teaching government worship, and convincing the church to turn their gatherings into businesses to be marketed to the world so that it no longer operates as the biblical body of Christ. And then it is how these institutional "churches" are treating those of us who are still following the biblical model of church and who are holding on to the truth of the gospel. More to come..

 

[martinlb]

Okay, understood. I'll wait for it, thanks.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Okay, understood. I'll wait for it, thanks.

Thanks for asking. And thanks for understanding.

 

[lismore]

I'm curious as to what you consider to be persecution the Church is under.

Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted (1 Timothy 3:12). We're in the Last days, being victimized in a church or put out of a church for good behaviour is commonplace now. God Bless

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted (1 Timothy 3:12). We're in the Last days, being victimized in a church or put out of a church for good behaviour is commonplace now. God Bless

Absolutely true! Sadly true. If you are a serious follower of Christ and student of the Scriptures who follows in the ways of the Lord, and does not compromise with the world, and if you stand against what is evil, and if you stand for truth and righteousness, it is very possible, depending upon what kind of "church" you are a part of, that you may be invited to leave or you may have something evil done against you forcing you to leave.

 

[martinlb]

Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted (1 Timothy 3:12). We're in the Last days, being victimized in a church or put out of a church for good behaviour is commonplace now. God Bless

Just as a point of clarification, it looks like you meant to quote a different section of scripture; 1 Tim 3:12 is dealing with what sort of person a leader in the Church needs to be.

I'm hoping to be helpful here and my main thoughts are about how believers, just as can anyone, can find ourselves drawn toward various topics that can overshadow our beliefs and take more room than is good, and comes from a healthy balance. I'm thinking as an example, of one church member whose worldview became centered on, as he'd put it, the devil. Trying to help him see how he wasn't focusing where we need to focus didn’t get anywhere. He'd talk about how if we weren't careful we'd end up in the devil's back pocket - not seeing that that was exactly where he was placing himself.

Persecution, victimization, and being mistreated isn't where we're told to have our attention. Following that path will not lead to anything good or healthy. Those things can certainly come, but focusing on them can also ruin our joy and our usefulness. They can even lead to a view of ourselves that's too much about us.

We can recognize, and even take pleasure in, not being part of this world. We don't fit with a broken world under the authority of the most evil entity in existence. While recognizing those facts, remaining focused on God and the good things he does is our mandate. That's what we're specifically told to focus on, and that's our message to a hurt and broken world.