Which Groups Are More Likely To Believe That Violence Is Sometimes Necessary To Gain Political Aims?

[BPPLEE]

What? Trump supporters were trying to overturn Trump? He was the president for heaven's sake! What on earth are you talking about? This wasn't trying to bring down a government. It was trying to overturn an election. If Pence had acquiesced then heaven only knows what sort of civil unrest you'd have suffered.

And again, you are trying to minimise it. It's just...depressing.

No, it was wrong, but it pales in comparison to the 2020 riots that you minimize. January 6th was one day and accomplished nothing, Biden took office and a bunch of people were arrested, one was killed.

 

[Bradskii]

No, it was wrong, but it pales in comparison to the 2020 riots that you minimize. January 6th was one day and accomplished nothing, Biden took office and a bunch of people were arrested, one was killed.

I have nothing to add that I haven't already said. About three times...

 

[BPPLEE]

I have nothing to add that I haven't already said. About three times...

Sorry I joined the thread late

 

[Always in His Presence]

I really gotta say that trying to excuse Jan 6 does some of you guys no favours whatsoever.

who is doing that?

Multi city violence resulting in seven deaths and 2 Billion dollars in damage - not including the numbers of minority owned businesses destroyed by the left - all not addressed - no scratch that - the only response if Jan 6! Jan 6!

which group is most likely to use violence

One group on one day at the Nations Capital - vs Nationwide for months

which is more?

 

[Bradskii]

who is doing that?

Now that is really weird. You ask me who is doing that and then immediately do it yourself.

One group on one day at the Nations Capital - vs Nationwide for months

which is more?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Now that is really weird. You ask me who is doing that and then immediately do it yourself.

Reader will note - I recognized the protest and riot on Jan 6 - no excuse - no denial

Then compared it to the widespread, multi state riots that burnt down parts of cities - killed people - attacked police and fire bombed federal buildings.

but my friends on the left called them mostly peaceful.

 

[Bradskii]

Reader will note - I recognized the protest and riot on Jan 6 - no excuse - no denial

Then compared it to the widespread, multi state riots that burnt down parts of cities - killed people - attacked police and fire bombed federal buildings.

Good grief. You did it again! Please stop.

 

[Fervent]

Good grief, man. If Trump supporters trying to overturn a democratically decided election in the very place that epitomizes democracy in the US doesn't cause you to feel shame, then heaven knows what could.

If they believed the election wasn't democratically decided, as many of them seem to still believe it was rigged, then there is no reason for shame in such violence. In line with Jefferson's reaction to Shay's rebellion, "a little rebellion now and then is a good thing."

And in saying this, I am not defending Trump for fomenting such rebellion, but simply pointing out that even our founding fathers believed that even mistaken beliefs about the miscarriage of democratic processes is sufficient to warrant a spirit of rebellion.

 

[Bradskii]

If they believed the election wasn't democratically decided, as many of them seem to still believe it was rigged, then there is no reason for shame in such violence.

So if you think that the election was rigged, you can resort to violence.

Personally I would check to see if those who would personally gain from the matter were lying to you. And gosh, it was Trump, who cannot seem to stop lying.

Just in case, I'd get the DOJ to check and list all the lies from all those involved for which there was direct evidence: recorded telephone calls, direct quotes, emails etc.

Then just to make absolutely sure, I'd take the matter to court in dozens of cases to see if any of them could be successful.

I guess that if you actually wanted the election overturned and all that turned out to be not in your favour then you could resort to Option 1, as you suggested.

Going straight to that option at the behest of the man who caused so many people to believe the lie shamed America in the eyes of the world. We all watched, horrified.

And people still excuse it.

 

[Fervent]

So if you think that the election was rigged, you can resort to violence.

Personally I would check to see if those who would personally gain from the matter were lying to you. And gosh, it was Trump, who cannot seem to stop lying.

Just in case, I'd get the DOJ to check and list all the lies from all those involved for which there was direct evidence: recorded telephone calls, direct quotes, emails etc.

Then just to make absolutely sure, I'd take the matter to court in dozens of cases to see if any of them could be successful.

I guess that if you actually wanted the election overturned and all that turned out to be not in your favour then you could resort to Option 1, as you suggested.

Going straight to that option at the behest of the man who caused so many people to believe the lie shamed America in the eyes of the world. We all watched, horrified.

And people still excuse it.

Yeah, like I said, I'm in agreement with Jefferson that rebellion is a necessary element for democracy and if the people who rioted were truly convinced that the election was rigged then to not rebel would have been far more shameful.

 

[Bradskii]

Yeah, like I said, I'm in agreement with Jefferson that rebellion is a necessary element for democracy and if the people who rioted were truly convinced that the election was rigged then to not rebel would have been far more shameful.

As I said earlier, the fact that people excuse this is what makes it shameful. A rebellion by fools, easily led by liars is not a just rebellion. It's a rejection, by force, of the democratic process.

 

[Fervent]

As I said earlier, the fact that people excuse this is what makes it shameful. A rebellion by fools, easily led by liars is not a just rebellion. It's a rejection, by force, of the democratic process.

The justice of a rebellion tends to be decided by whether or not it is successful, lest we forget that the claims about "taxation without representation" among the colonists were propaganda since they had proportional representation.

 

[BPPLEE]

 

[stevevw]

 

[Bradskii]

The justice of a rebellion tends to be decided by whether or not it is successful...

Then I guess that Jan 6 was not justified. But hey, we both knew that anyway.

 

[Fervent]

Then I guess that Jan 6 was not justified. But hey, we both knew that anyway.

You sure do have a bad habit of selective editing and failing to respond to the central point.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The justice of a rebellion tends to be decided by whether or not it is successful, lest we forget that the claims about "taxation without representation" among the colonists were propaganda since they had proportional representation.

In Parliament? Check again.

 

[Fervent]

In Parliament? Check again.

Mistake noted, though it remains that the slogan was a major oversimplification given the structure of British governance and official agents and virtual representation. At any rate, the "justice" of that rebellion depends more on the fact that it succeeded than on the grievances lobbed.

 

[Bradskii]

You sure do have a bad habit of selective editing and failing to respond to the central point.

My bad. It's just that you said that the justice of a rebellion tends to be decided by whether or not it is successful. Twice. And Jan 6 was not succesful. Maybe you just didn't think it through.

 

[Fervent]

My bad. It's just that you said that the justice of a rebellion tends to be decided by whether or not it is successful. Twice. And Jan 6 was not succesful. Maybe you just didn't think it through.

No, my statement was more sarcastic than anything. If your measure of justice is truly whether or not it succeeds, then you have no sense of justice. My position on the Jan 6 rebellion is it was misguided, but if they truly believed that the election was stolen the rioters were justified in seeking a rebellion.