Trump knocking down historic East Wing to build Ballroom - is this LEGAL?

[Bradskii]

Raises eyebrows further...

Post Of The Month.

 

[Tuur]

Raises eyebrows further, blows nose, eats a pancake. Yes, he is objectively unpopular.

He's not universally unpopular. Based on that, he's only "objectively unpopular" in various circles. Perhaps the ones you frequent: I've been in circles that dislike him and circles that do; that's how I know both exist.

Maybe Trump should put an additional floor onto the White House. That's what Calvin Coolidge did. Coolidge put in a solarium too. And Roosevelt demolished the East Wing to enlarge it. Not much worry about "historical integrity" with either. But Coolidge and Roosevelt weren't named "Trump," and that's the real difference.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

He's not universally unpopular.

Nobody is. Even Hitler has some fans.

Still, Trump is absolutely for sure one of the least popular, most disliked and distrusted presidents in at least the last 100 years of the White House.

Based on that, he's only "objectively unpopular" in various circles. Perhaps the ones you frequent: I've been in circles that dislike him and circles that do; that's how I know both exist.

Maybe Trump should put an additional floor onto the White House. That's what Calvin Coolidge did. Coolidge put in a solarium too. And Roosevelt demolished the East Wing to enlarge it. Not much worry about "historical integrity" with either. But Coolidge and Roosevelt weren't named "Trump," and that's the real difference.

I doubt they spent much time crapping, figuratively and literally, on the half the country that didn’t vote for them.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

He's not universally unpopular. Based on that, he's only "objectively unpopular" in various circles. Perhaps the ones you frequent: I've been in circles that dislike him and circles that do; that's how I know both exist.

If I were to go into a room with 100 people and throw a rock, there is a significant statistical likelihood that rock would hit somebody who doesn’t support him, and it would bounce off that person and hit another person who disapproves of his performance.

He is objectively unpopular in the United States across all circles, the most unpopular president since they started taking popularity polls. Outside of the US, he is tap dancing on the line of universal disgust so closely that if somebody told me my likelihood of surviving until tomorrow is the same percentage as the people who have faith in his job performance, I’d pick out my casket.

Maybe Trump should put an additional floor onto the White House. That's what Calvin Coolidge did. Coolidge put in a solarium too. And Roosevelt demolished the East Wing to enlarge it. Not much worry about "historical integrity" with either. But Coolidge and Roosevelt weren't named "Trump," and that's the real difference.

So because I’m unable to go back in time 54 years before I was born to voice any objections I may or may not have to Calvin Coolidge’s renovations (which cost $327k or $6 million today), nor did I voice my concerns to renovations that occurred 34 years before I was born (at an adjusted cost of $61 million today), I can’t be critical of Trump’s renovations that costs 4.5 times more and doesn’t address any issues with the structure…?

Are we really going to play the “poor Trump, everybody is so mean to him for no reason” card because I’m not getting mad at presidents who have been dead for literal decades and the renovations they made half a century ago?

I tell you what, as soon as I get the means to go and yell at Calvin Coolidge for half-baked renovations that damaged the structural integrity of the White House, I’ll make it a point to do so. I’ll clear my very busy schedule and give him a proper dressing down immediately after giving my great grandparents Gray’s Sports Almanac… I’d give it to my parents or my grandparents, but when he was president my parents hadn’t been born yet and my grandparents were like 10. I’ll tell them to be super against it, though, because 100 years later somebody is going to be big mad their great granddaughter didn’t do more to stop it.

Why y’all are so excited to do the poor victim Trump dance is beyond me, but it’s weird.

 

[DaisyDay]

Saw a photo of a White House event with tables and small tables set up on the lawn. Looked for all the world like patio tables, but probably were more classy. The question is whether that was a decision to go al fresco based on the event, or lack of room.

Obviously doing it al fresco was a choice as they have always had the option of setting up tents.

 

[Tuur]

Obviously doing it al fresco was a choice as they have always had the option of setting up tents.

Sometimes it's required for lack of space. Thus, when attending the wedding of a friend, we dined beneath tents rather than the social hall due to lack of space. Saw something similar set up a a church last Sunday. In the olden days, have seen funeral home tents borrowed for that purpose, but that just doesn't have the right vibe for joyous events.

Actually, in the olden days, it was more common for men and boys to dine outside sans tents, tables, and chairs, with plates balanced on anything that looked like it might hold one. It was considered good manners to leave the tables and chairs for the women and girls. Now to see if anyone calls that sexist.

 

[Tuur]

He is objectively unpopular in the United States across all circles,

Again, no. Clearly you don't believe me, but have seen otherwise. Have talked to people face-to-face who felt otherwise. Have seen someone paint support for Trump across the roof of their barn. And just last Thursday, noticed one home flying a Trump flag and another nearby it with a fresh Trump sign out front.

You dislike Trump. I get that. This is CF, so it's on-brand for most to oppose any Republican. I get that, too. Know that this isn't universal. You can believe it; disbelieve it; call me a liar; or call it whatever.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Again, no. Clearly you don't believe me, but have seen otherwise. Have talked to people face-to-face who felt otherwise. Have seen someone paint support for Trump across the roof of their barn. And just last Thursday, noticed one home flying a Trump flag and another nearby it with a fresh Trump sign out front.

You dislike Trump. I get that. This is CF, so it's on-brand for most to oppose any Republican. I get that, too. Know that this isn't universal. You can believe it; disbelieve it; call me a liar; or call it whatever.

I don’t think you’re lying when you say you know Trump fans. I know quite a few in my personal life as well and that’s over here in liberal LA.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t an unpopular president. His poor approval ratings, the fact he’s lost the popular vote twice and when he did win it was by a 1.5% margin over another very unpopular candidate. Idk what you’re trying to defend here. The guy is just not likable.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Actually, in the olden days, it was more common for men and boys to dine outside sans tents, tables, and chairs, with plates balanced on anything that looked like it might hold one. It was considered good manners to leave the tables and chairs for the women and girls. Now to see if anyone calls that sexist.

Why would anybody think that is sexist?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Again, no. Clearly you don't believe me, but have seen otherwise. Have talked to people face-to-face who felt otherwise. Have seen someone paint support for Trump across the roof of their barn. And just last Thursday, noticed one home flying a Trump flag and another nearby it with a fresh Trump sign out front.

I have linked numerous sources that show he is objectively unpopular. You said I only think that because of the circle I run in (despite you knowing nothing about the circle I run in). You say he is popular, and you know him to be because the people you talk to like him.

Sounds like to me the person who’s basing their opinion on their circle is you, not me.

At this point, even Fox admits he has a low approval and high disapproval rating, despite the house you saw last Thursday and the guy defacing his own roof (which is odd).

You dislike Trump. I get that. This is CF, so it's on-brand for most to oppose any Republican. I get that, too. Know that this isn't universal. You can believe it; disbelieve it; call me a liar; or call it whatever.

Ooooooh myyyyyy gooooosshhhhhh… Enough with the seeking of victimhood and pity. It’s sooooooooo boooooooring. I didn’t call you a liar, I didn’t call you names, CF is not a place unfriendly to Republicans, nor is it unfriendly to Trump, so why you are so eager to assume the role of martyr is beyond me.

I also don’t get why you’re hyper-fixating on making sure I know he’s not universally disliked. I didn’t say he was universally disliked, I acknowledged he isn’t universally disliked, I didn’t imply he is universally disliked, I did not enter the phrase “universally disliked” to this discussion. I said he was objectively unpopular, which he is, cited it, and it is you who kept insisting nonsense about universal dislike… Like because he’s not universally disliked that somehow means he’s generally liked or even popular.

He is not. He is objectively unpopular by all metrics that track such things and is generally acknowledged to be so, despite that one house last Thursday and the guy on a roof.

 

[Tuur]

I have linked numerous sources that show he is objectively unpopular. You said I only think that because of the circle I run in (despite you knowing nothing about the circle I run in). You say he is popular, and you know him to be because the people you talk to like him.

Sounds like to me the person who’s basing their opinion on their circle is you, not me.

Considering I post on CF, kind of hard to justify the latter claim. As to the former, assuming the cited polls are even partially accurate, they, too, show that Trump isn't objectively unpopular, only that a percentage of the US population dislike him. Even then, the existence of a single person who likes Trump would be sufficient to show the fallacy of objectively unpopular. Just as, if I claimed Trump was objectively popular, your own dislike of Trump would be enough to show the fallacy of objective popularity.

What we have is the situation that we always have: Some like a person; some don't. We can argue about polls and percentages all day long, yet it remains more than a few do like Trump. A tacit admission of this can be found right here on CF whenever something bad happens in a red state and someone invariably chortles that they got what they voted for.

Like it or not, Trump isn't objectively unpopular. Neither is he objectively popular. That's the way of things. And neither claim of unpopularity or popularity has much to do with remodeling the White House.

 

[Bradskii]

Like it or not, Trump isn't objectively unpopular.

From The Economist:

'The president's net approval rating is -18%,
down 1.3 points since last week'.

I believe that's the lowest since...well, for ever. So what descriptive would you use to preface '....unpopular' if not 'objectively' (although the fact that he is unpopular is an objective fact)

Drastically? Overwhelmingly? Incredibly?

Me, I'd go 'Undeniably', but it's your call.

 

[probinson]

But what I can say is that the shutdown is still not affecting Donald Trump’s approval rating. As of today, 43.8 percent of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing and 53.1 percent disapprove, for a net approval rating of -9.2. ​

​

Yes, Trump’s job approval is down from where it was last week (net -7.6), but that was the tail end of what now looks like a momentary uptick. One month ago, Trump had a net approval rating of -9.4. That’s pretty much identical to where he is today. In fact, Trump’s approval rating has been so stable that even though it fell much more quickly than Joe Biden’s early in their respective terms, the two aren’t very far off today. On day 281 of Biden’s term, his net approval rating was -8.2. That’s only 1 point higher than Trump’s​

​

How popular is Donald Trump?

Silver Bulletin approval ratings for President Trump — and all presidents since Truman.

www.natesilver.net

​

 

[Bradskii]

Trump’s approval rating has been so stable...​

...that it remains in the toilet.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Considering I post on CF, kind of hard to justify the latter claim.

What are you even talking about.

As to the former, assuming the cited polls are even partially accurate, they, too, show that Trump isn't objectively unpopular, only that a percentage of the US population dislike him.

The dominant percentage doesn’t like him. 55-60% disapprove.

Even then, the existence of a single person who likes Trump would be sufficient to show the fallacy of objectively unpopular. Just as, if I claimed Trump was objectively popular, your own dislike of Trump would be enough to show the fallacy of objective popularity.

Is the issue that you don’t know what “objectively unpopular” means…? It means that a measured majority of people are found via use of empirical evidence and facts to be not well liked. “Universally” and “objectively” are not synonyms or interchangeable. One person liking him doesn’t mean he’s not considered objectively unpopular. It means that person is part of the non-majority.

What we have is the situation that we always have: Some like a person; some don't. We can argue about polls and percentages all day long, yet it remains more than a few do like Trump. A tacit admission of this can be found right here on CF whenever something bad happens in a red state and someone invariably chortles that they got what they voted for.

Again, you’ve invented a narrative, got offended by it, and are explaining to me why the narrative you invented that you don’t like is wrong like I’m the one who said it.

I never said there weren’t people who don’t like Trump. And somebody saying that a red state is having the say they voted for isn’t a tacit admission that he’s a popular president. It’s a statement that the red state people crying into their Cheerios over Trump doing something that impacts them badly have nothing to cry about as they were warned it would happen. Honestly the red staters bemoaning the bad things happening to them goes to speak more to his unpopularity than his popularity.

Like it or not, Trump isn't objectively unpopular. Neither is he objectively popular. That's the way of things. And neither claim of unpopularity or popularity has much to do with remodeling the White House.

You have furnished no evidence that shows he isn’t objectively unpopular. You’ve said “nuh uh” a bunch of times. You’ve tried to redefine words. You mentioned a man on a roof and a house you saw last Thursday. You’ve made clear that you don’t know what “objectively unpopular” means, nor I suspect “tacit admission.” You’ve tried to paint yourself a victim, even implied that on CF Republicans are marginalized due to their beliefs (yet somehow you don’t think that marginalization you claim exists translates to being unpopular).

You have not, however, shown that Trump isn’t an objectively unpopular president. Objectively unpopular because he has a low approval rating, high disapproval rating, and is the president with the lowest peak approval rating (and if I remember correctly the highest or second-highest peak disapproval rating) out of every president since approval ratings were tracked as well as near-universal dislike overseas. Fanatic painting Trump’s name on a barn not withstanding. He doesn’t get extra points that go to Trumps approval rating for being a Trump zealot which offset the dislike the rest of the country feels.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

...that it remains in the toilet.

Consistent in his mediocrity, lol.

 

[Bradskii]

Consistent in his mediocrity, lol.

Would that he had the strength of character to reach such lofty heights as mediocrity.

 

[Tuur]

From The Economist:

'The president's net approval rating is -18%,
down 1.3 points since last week'.

I believe that's the lowest since...well, for ever. So what descriptive would you use to preface '....unpopular' if not 'objectively' (although the fact that he is unpopular is an objective fact)

Drastically? Overwhelmingly? Incredibly?

Me, I'd go 'Undeniably', but it's your call.

Verses this from MSN:

MSN

Hardly what the economist spins, and MSN here is carrying a story from USA Today, hardly a Trump supporter. Playing with words like 'net" to pretend no one approves of Trump is on-brand, though.

If some have an emotional investment in believing no one likes Trump and it helps them sleep through the night, let them go for it. Claiming poll numbers to "prove" someone is "objectively" popular or unpopular is more like middle school slam book stuff that actually acknowledging that someone you find unpopular will be very popular with someone else. That is the way of things. Claiming someone is "objectively" popular or unpopular is resenting an either/or as an absolute that does not exist.

That, as you put it, is my call.

 

[Tuur]

What are you even talking about.

Honestly, that got a chuckle. There is a distinct anti-Republican bias in general and an anti-Trump bias in particular on CF. Yet this is unnoticed?

Perhaps we are wasting our time responding to each other. I'm sitting here trying to think how to respond further without coming across as insulting, and I cannot. Call that a personal failing if you wish, and I'll acknowledge it.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Verses this from MSN:

MSN

Hardly what the economist spins, and MSN here is carrying a story from USA Today, hardly a Trump supporter. Playing with words like 'net" to pretend no one approves of Trump is on-brand, though.

If some have an emotional investment in believing no one likes Trump and it helps them sleep through the night, let them go for it. Claiming poll numbers to "prove" someone is "objectively" popular or unpopular is more like middle school slam book stuff that actually acknowledging that someone you find unpopular will be very popular with someone else. That is the way of things. Claiming someone is "objectively" popular or unpopular is resenting an either/or as an absolute that does not exist.

That, as you put it, is my call.

Do you know what “objective” means?





ob·jec·tive
/əbˈjektiv/

adjective

1.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"

It is an objective fact that the president has more disapproval than approval. There are objectively more people dissatisfied with and disapproving of his performance than the other way around. These are objective facts because we can look to actual polling to see where people stand.