Why Does the Bible Tell Us to Behave In Ways We Can’t? How Can Anyone Be Saved?

[Abraham1st]

The first issue is who is Christ refering to. You mistakenly say that it is the men of Isreal. Verse 13 identifies to whom Jesus is refering. 13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

The logic is flawed.

Firstly the Pharisees and the scribes came to Jesus who was teaching ALL THE PEOPLE in the temple.

Those same accusing Pharisees and scribes all went out and Jesus was left alone.



John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.




Pharisees had come again, and Jesus answered them again, and no man Laid hands on Him as He spoke in the treasury in the temple.




John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.




Jesus speaks again unto them, that they shall die in their sins, which the Jews replied questioning if Jesus will kill Himself.




John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.




Jesus says He has many things to say and to judge of them, and describes this as THE WORLD He is speaking to, not just Pharisees as you have said in your flawed wisdom.

Jesus again confirms who He is speaking to, it is to the ones who are going to CRUCIFY THE SON OF GOD. (WHEN YOU HAVE LIFTED UP THE SON OF MAN.)




John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.





Mercy shown: You mistakenly say that it is THE MEN OF ISRAEL.



You mistakenly say that it is not THE MEN OF ISRAEL, and we can close in on that precisely right now.

Jesus had said just before describing these same people He is speaking with, as of their father the devil, that He has many things to say and to judge of them, and that He is speaking TO THE WORLD.

Jesus then immediately says to them they are the ones who will be lifting up/crucifying the Son of man, who spoke these things TO THEM.

Luke 23 is ACCORDING to what Jesus said, the voices of them prevailed, and Pilate released unto them the murderer they desired, and delivered Jesus to their will.

Peter also speaks to them, in Acts 3, YOU MEN OF ISRAEL, Jesus they delivered up, they denied the Holy one, and desired a murderer to be granted unto them, and killed the Prince of life.

Acts 4, tells again, that it was AGAINST THE LORD AND HIS CHRIST, HIS HOLY CHILD JESUS, whom the Father anointed, that both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, were GATHERED TOGETHER. (BECAUSE JESUS SAID HE SPEAKS TO THE WORLD, SO YOUR LOGIC IS DENYING THAT THIS WAS ACCOMPLISHED, THAT JESUS SAID HE WAS SPEAKING TO THE WORLD AND HERE WE HAVE IT CONFIRMED, BOTH THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL AND THE GENTILES WERE GATHERED TOGETHER AGAINST CHRIST TO CRUCIFY HIM, as He had said to them in Luke 23, and as He said He SPAKS TO THE WORLD, and THATS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE PHARISEES THEN, AND EVEN TAKES AWAY THE WHOLE PURPOSE AND FULFILMENT OF CHRIST IN THAT FLAW.)



.... I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world....

...Then SAID JESUS UNTO THEM, WHEN YE HAVE LIFTED UP THE SON OF MAN, then shall ye know that I am he...
...as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things....



Luke 23:23 And THEY WERE INSTANT WITH LOUD VOICES, requiring THAT HE MIGHT BE CRUCIFIED. And THE VOICES OF THEM and of the chief priests prevailed.
24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
25 And HE RELEASED UNTO THEM HIM THAT FOR SEDITION AND MURDER was cast into prison, WHOM THEY HAD DESIRED; but HE DELIVERED JESUS TO THEIR WILL.


Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, YE MEN OF ISRAEL, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son JESUS; whom YE DELIVERED UP, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But YE DENIED THE HOLY ONE and the Just, AND DESIRED A MURDERER TO BE GRANTED UNTO YOU;
15 AND KILLED THE PRINCE OF LIFE, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 4:26 The KINGS OF THE EARTH STOOD UP, and the RULERS WERE GATHRED TOGETHER against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, WITH THE GENTILES, AND THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, were GATHERED TOGETHER,
28 FOR TO DO WHATSOEVER THY HAND AND THY COUNSEL DETERMINED BEFORE TO BE DONE.

 

[ARBITER01]

No, Christ reached the standard and then imputed it to them.

Scripture doesn't affirm that. Certainly not in the case of Paul.

The example is set by Jesus. He had to be filled with The Holy Spirit, He had to go through the trials and wilderness, and also the temptations directly by satan. Then He had to receive His anointing from The Father with the power of The Holy Spirit coming to rest upon Him afterwards,...... before He actually had a ministry from The Father.

These are the works that we are to reach for also,.... if we want to truly walk the path that He did. We don't get it imputed to us.

We are all called to be perfect, which drives us to the only true source of perfection: Jesus Christ. Yet perfection is not a gift without a cost. The law demands payment, and that price is eternal destruction. Thankfully, Christ paid that price on our behalf, giving us his perfection while taking our imperfection upon himself.

Not sure what you men by "caught up in their sins." We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. And yes, I was one who gave up and finally surrendered to Jesus Christ who has saved me to the uttermost so that I now stand before God as if I had never sinned becuse Christ stood before God as a damned sinner.

There's something fishy here, especially the part about "the law demands payment." That sound like something from Harry Potter, lol.


I'm not sure we are on the same page here, so let me identify the point I'm making by asking you point blank,.... can a Christian, after being born again, reach a point of walking sinlessness before The Lord?

 

[Mercy Shown]

The logic is flawed.

Firstly the Pharisees and the scribes came to Jesus who was teaching ALL THE PEOPLE in the temple.

Those same accusing Pharisees and scribes all went out and Jesus was left alone.



John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.




Pharisees had come again, and Jesus answered them again, and no man Laid hands on Him as He spoke in the treasury in the temple.




John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.




Jesus speaks again unto them, that they shall die in their sins, which the Jews replied questioning if Jesus will kill Himself.




John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.




Jesus says He has many things to say and to judge of them, and describes this as THE WORLD He is speaking to, not just Pharisees as you have said in your flawed wisdom.

Jesus again confirms who He is speaking to, it is to the ones who are going to CRUCIFY THE SON OF GOD. (WHEN YOU HAVE LIFTED UP THE SON OF MAN.)




John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.





Mercy shown: You mistakenly say that it is THE MEN OF ISRAEL.



You mistakenly say that it is not THE MEN OF ISRAEL, and we can close in on that precisely right now.

Jesus had said just before describing these same people He is speaking with, as of their father the devil, that He has many things to say and to judge of them, and that He is speaking TO THE WORLD.

Jesus then immediately says to them they are the ones who will be lifting up/crucifying the Son of man, who spoke these things TO THEM.

Luke 23 is ACCORDING to what Jesus said, the voices of them prevailed, and Pilate released unto them the murderer they desired, and delivered Jesus to their will.

Peter also speaks to them, in Acts 3, YOU MEN OF ISRAEL, Jesus they delivered up, they denied the Holy one, and desired a murderer to be granted unto them, and killed the Prince of life.

Acts 4, tells again, that it was AGAINST THE LORD AND HIS CHRIST, HIS HOLY CHILD JESUS, whom the Father anointed, that both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, were GATHERED TOGETHER. (BECAUSE JESUS SAID HE SPEAKS TO THE WORLD, SO YOUR LOGIC IS DENYING THAT THIS WAS ACCOMPLISHED, THAT JESUS SAID HE WAS SPEAKING TO THE WORLD AND HERE WE HAVE IT CONFIRMED, BOTH THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL AND THE GENTILES WERE GATHERED TOGETHER AGAINST CHRIST TO CRUCIFY HIM, as He had said to them in Luke 23, and as He said He SPAKS TO THE WORLD, and THATS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE PHARISEES THEN, AND EVEN TAKES AWAY THE WHOLE PURPOSE AND FULFILMENT OF CHRIST IN THAT FLAW.)



.... I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world....

...Then SAID JESUS UNTO THEM, WHEN YE HAVE LIFTED UP THE SON OF MAN, then shall ye know that I am he...
...as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things....



Luke 23:23 And THEY WERE INSTANT WITH LOUD VOICES, requiring THAT HE MIGHT BE CRUCIFIED. And THE VOICES OF THEM and of the chief priests prevailed.
24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
25 And HE RELEASED UNTO THEM HIM THAT FOR SEDITION AND MURDER was cast into prison, WHOM THEY HAD DESIRED; but HE DELIVERED JESUS TO THEIR WILL.


Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, YE MEN OF ISRAEL, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son JESUS; whom YE DELIVERED UP, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But YE DENIED THE HOLY ONE and the Just, AND DESIRED A MURDERER TO BE GRANTED UNTO YOU;
15 AND KILLED THE PRINCE OF LIFE, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 4:26 The KINGS OF THE EARTH STOOD UP, and the RULERS WERE GATHRED TOGETHER against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, WITH THE GENTILES, AND THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, were GATHERED TOGETHER,
28 FOR TO DO WHATSOEVER THY HAND AND THY COUNSEL DETERMINED BEFORE TO BE DONE.

There is nothing more I can say to someone who denies the obvious. Jesus was arguing with the Pharisees, and the quote you used was spoken directly to them—it’s clearly stated in both your Bible and mine. To further complicate matters, Peter’s soliloquy in Acts is introduced as he addresses the crowd that gathered around him after the beggar was healed at the temple. The phrase “Ye men of Israel” is a term specifically directed toward that crowd.

 

[Abraham1st]

There is nothing more I can say to someone who denies the obvious. Jesus was arguing with the Pharisees, and the quote you used was spoken directly to them—it’s clearly stated in both your Bible and mine. To further complicate matters, Peter’s soliloquy in Acts is introduced as he addresses the crowd that gathered around him after the beggar was healed at the temple. The phrase “Ye men of Israel” is a term specifically directed toward that crowd.

What Jesus witnessed was to the men of Israel that crucified Him, and did it because they did not believe in Him.

Many were Pharisees, and some Seduces, which was the sect of the chief priests.




John 7:48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?

Acts 5:17 Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,




So the men of Israel are Pharisees and the chief priests, who also crucified Him.



John 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

 

[Abraham1st]

There is nothing more I can say to someone who denies the obvious.

KEEP TO YOUR OWN WORDS.




James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Abraham1st]

Scripture doesn't affirm that. Certainly not in the case of Paul.

can a Christian, after being born again, reach a point of walking sinlessness before The Lord?

If you talk about what scripture affirms, why do you ask questions instead of showing what the scriptures affirm.

Unless you just want a conversation to continue endlessly ad to never go anywhere, so I will answer for you with scripture, as I don't want the same.



There is no point to be reached, it is a point left behind.



Colossians 2:6 AS YE HAVE RECEIVED CHRIST JESUS THE LORD, SO WALK YE IN HIM:
7 ROOTD AND BUILT UP IN HIM, and STABLISHED IN THE FAITH, as ye have BEEN TAUGHT, ABOUNDING therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in PUTTING OFF THE BODY OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH by the circumcision of Christ:
12 BURIEDC WITH HIM IN BAPTISM, wherein also YE ARE RISEN WITH HIM THROUGH THE FAITH OF THE OPERATION OF GOD, who HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.
13 And you, being DEAD IN YOUR SINS and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath HE QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH HIM, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS;
15 And having SPOILED PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS, he made a shew of them openly, TRIUMPHING OVER THEM IN IT.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Scripture doesn't affirm that. Certainly not in the case of Paul.

Romans 3:21–22 — The New King James Version (NKJV)

But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;​

The example is set by Jesus. He had to be filled with The Holy Spirit, He had to go through the trials and wilderness, and also the temptations directly by satan. Then He had to receive His anointing from The Father with the power of The Holy Spirit coming to rest upon Him afterwards,...... before He actually had a ministry from The Father.

These are the works that we are to reach for also,.... if we want to truly walk the path that He did. We don't get it imputed to us.

Romans 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 4:20-25 he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

There's something fishy here, especially the part about "the law demands payment." That sound like something from Harry Potter, lol.

The law of God does not merely advise righteousness. It requires it. Scripture presents the law as a moral standard upheld by divine justice: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them” (Galatians 3:10; cf. Deuteronomy 27:26). To break the law is to incur a real debt, because God’s holiness demands that every violation be accounted for. “The soul who sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4), and “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Just as a righteous judge cannot ignore a crime without betraying justice, God does not overlook sin without satisfaction (Romans 3:25-26).


There would be no need for a Savior if the law did not demand payment. Yet the gospel exists precisely because the law’s claim is unyielding. Jesus said He came “to fulfill the law” (Matthew 5:17), and Paul declares that God “made him who knew no sin to be sin for us” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Either we face the law’s penalty ourselves, or we trust the One who “redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13). The justice of the law is satisfied, not ignored, through the death of Christ who pays the debt fully on our behalf.

I'm not sure we are on the same page here, so let me identify the point I'm making by asking you point blank,.... can a Christian, after being born again, reach a point of walking sinlessness before The Lord?

Yes, by accepting Christ's righteousness as my own, I am sinless before God. Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Christ's righteousness in us is not inactive. It certainly allows us to immedietly stand before God with no sins counted against us but it also begins to make us holy. Now I ask you directly: Are you the author and finisher of your faith or is Jesus Christ?

Scripture doesn't affirm that. Certainly not in the case of Paul.

The example is set by Jesus. He had to be filled with The Holy Spirit, He had to go through the trials and wilderness, and also the temptations directly by satan. Then He had to receive His anointing from The Father with the power of The Holy Spirit coming to rest upon Him afterwards,...... before He actually had a ministry from The Father.

So you think he was not the divine son of God before His baptisim? Of course he was or at the age of around 12 He would not have told him parents that He must be about His Father's business. Jesus took on all of these trials, scorn and punishment for us.

Isaiah 53: 3-6

Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

 

[Mercy Shown]

What Jesus witnessed was to the men of Israel that crucified Him, and did it because they did not believe in Him.

Many were Pharisees, and some Seduces, which was the sect of the chief priests.

Sorry but this is just a bare assertion fallacy

John 7:48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?

What is the significance of this? It does not seem to have anything to do with your assertion.

Acts 5:17 Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,

Again, this is not even the same incident recorded in John 8

So the men of Israel are Pharisees and the chief priests, who also crucified Him.



John 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Not sure what your point is.

 

[ARBITER01]

Romans 3:21–22 — The New King James Version (NKJV)

But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;​

The example is set by Jesus. He had to be filled with The Holy Spirit, He had to go through the trials and wilderness, and also the temptations directly by satan. Then He had to receive His anointing from The Father with the power of The Holy Spirit coming to rest upon Him afterwards,...... before He actually had a ministry from The Father.

Romans 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 4:20-25 he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The law of God does not merely advise righteousness. It requires it. Scripture presents the law as a moral standard upheld by divine justice: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them” (Galatians 3:10; cf. Deuteronomy 27:26). To break the law is to incur a real debt, because God’s holiness demands that every violation be accounted for. “The soul who sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4), and “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Just as a righteous judge cannot ignore a crime without betraying justice, God does not overlook sin without satisfaction (Romans 3:25-26).


There would be no need for a Savior if the law did not demand payment. Yet the gospel exists precisely because the law’s claim is unyielding. Jesus said He came “to fulfill the law” (Matthew 5:17), and Paul declares that God “made him who knew no sin to be sin for us” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Either we face the law’s penalty ourselves, or we trust the One who “redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13). The justice of the law is satisfied, not ignored, through the death of Christ who pays the debt fully on our behalf.

Yes, by accepting Christ's righteousness as my own, I am sinless before God. Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Christ's righteousness in us is not inactive. It certainly allows us to immedietly stand before God with no sins counted against us but it also begins to make us holy. Now I ask you directly: Are you the author and finisher of your faith or is Jesus Christ?

So you think he was not the divine son of God before His baptisim? Of course he was or at the age of around 12 He would not have told him parents that He must be about His Father's business. Jesus took on all of these trials, scorn and punishment for us.

Isaiah 53: 3-6

Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

Naaa,... we are not on the same page here.

You're talking about being born again, I'm talking about after that experience.

 

[Mercy Shown]

The messenger of YHVH, the apostle paul, did.

You mean when He was persacuting the church? Or when he said this: I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Naaa,... we are not on the same page here.

You're talking about being born again, I'm talking about after that experience.

What does born again mean to you?

 

[Abraham1st]

Sorry but this is just a bare assertion fallacy

What is the significance of this? It does not seem to have anything to do with your assertion.

Again, this is not even the same incident recorded in John 8

Not sure what your point is.

Not sure what your point is.

 

[Abraham1st]

Two types of born again, one were it is all talk and deceit and one were it is no talk and true.



1 Peter 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

 

[ARBITER01]

What does born again mean to you?

Let's not divert from your topic. Laters.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Let's not divert from your topic. Laters.

It is not diverting from the topic. Being born again is being saved.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Not sure what your point is.

You are just asserting your opinion as fact without any support.

 

[Abraham1st]

You mean I am supporting the facts without your support.