Why Does the Bible Tell Us to Behave In Ways We Can’t? How Can Anyone Be Saved?

[Fervent]

I thought I did. The question starts with the assumption that the the apostle achieved the perfection required by God, but this is an unproven premise. Do you have evidence that they were Holy as God is Holy? I gave you the very confession of Paul. Since the question is based an an assumption it is not possible to answer unless we can establish the assumpton as fact.

Holy isn't what we do, it's what we are. Which is set aside for a purpose. The idea isn't to be meticulous navel gazers picking apart our every sin, but to abide in Jesus. We are holy because He abides in us. It is only by His presence that we will be transformed to conform to His image and be delivered from sin.

 

[Guojing]

I thought I did. The question starts with the assumption that the the apostle achieved the perfection required by God, but this is an unproven premise. Do you have evidence that they were Holy as God is Holy? I gave you the very confession of Paul. Since the question is based an an assumption it is not possible to answer unless we can establish the assumpton as fact.

Well at least the 12 claimed they did fulfill Luke 12:33 when Peter replied with Matthew 19:27

 

[Abraham1st]

Holy isn't what we do, it's what we are. Which is set aside for a purpose. The idea isn't to be meticulous navel gazers picking apart our every sin, but to abide in Jesus. We are holy because He abides in us. It is only by His presence that we will be transformed to conform to His image and be delivered from sin.

Mercy Shown: Do you have evidence that they were Holy as God is Holy?



Wouldn't it be nice and ever so convenient to consider it like this way, that we WILL BE conformed to the image of His Son, for justification and to be glorified.

That's a nice half of a coin.

Now the remaining balance to be PAID IN FULL.

Apostle Paul just a mere four chapters after Romans 8, BESEECHED us by those SAME MERCIES of God, that WE present our bodies a living SACRIFICE, HOLY, ACCEPTABLE, unto God, which is our REASONABLE SERRVICE.

THIS IS THE DIVIDING LINE, and be NOT CONFORMED TO THIS WORLD, but be you TRANSFORMED BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND, that you may PROVE, what is that GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT will of God.

Apostle Paul says to EVERY MAN THAT IS AMONG THEM, not to think of himself MORE HIGHLY THAN HE SHOULD THNK, but to THINK SOBERLY, according to the faith deal to every man.




Romans 8:28 And we know that ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 12:1 I BESEECH YOU THEREFORE, BRETHREN, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that yYE MAY PROVE WHAT IS THAT GOOD, and acceptable, and PERFECT, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.




BESEECHED AND THINKING SOBERLY.

WHATS NEXT.

Love has to be without concealment, through coming out into the light we are to then: ABHOR THAT WHICH IS EVIL, CLEAVING TO THAT WWHICH IS GOOD.

To be in kindness, brotherly love, honouring the other, not yourself.

Not lazy, but FERVENT IN SPIRIT, SERVING.

To rejoice in HOPE, to be PATIENT, in tribulation, to continue instant in PRAYER.

To DISTRIBUTE to necessities, giving HOSPITALITY.

To NOT MIND HIGH THINGS, but to descend to LOW ESTATE. To NOT BE WISE IN YOUR OWN CONCEITS.

To NOT RECOMPENSE EVIL.

Provide HONESTLY.

Live PEACABLY.




Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

 

[NBB]

Holy isn't what we do, it's what we are. Which is set aside for a purpose. The idea isn't to be meticulous navel gazers picking apart our every sin, but to abide in Jesus. We are holy because He abides in us. It is only by His presence that we will be transformed to conform to His image and be delivered from sin.

A lot of people say that being holy is being set apart, but i think is not like that.

5 Be holy in everything you do, just as God is holy. He is the one who chose you. 16 In the Scriptures God says, “Be holy, because I am holy.”[b]

 

[NBB]

We always going to have imperfections, Paul rebuked Peter because of his 'hipocrisy' remember
but people are exaggerating, is not being perfect and holy like God, is just doing what he ask of people, God doesn't ask impossible things!!

I think this verse solves this issue:

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

So Jesus called that he would be PERFECT because of doing God commandments, and doing that extra thing he asked of him

Is this really impossible? cmon.

 

[Abraham1st]

Yes, it is the same with us. Whenever we need to repent, it is because we have failed to do what God wants us to do. God does not want us to have even a single impure thought or selfish motive, yet in our fallen nature that is impossible. Scripture teaches that if someone claims to be without sin, they are a liar and the truth is not in them.

Scripture does not teach us what you just said.

Scripture first begins with a witness from Christ, that the men of Israel are of their father the devil and that they will do the lusts (SINS) of their father, that their father who they are of, ABIDES NOT IN THE TRUTH, because there is NO TRUTH IN HIM. He speaks his own which is a LIE, for he is a LIAR, and the FATHER OF IT.

Jesus witnesses this to the men of Israel, BECAUSE HE TELLS THEM THE TRUTH, they DO NOT BELIEVE HIM.

That he that is of God, HEARS GODS WORDS, they THEREFORE hear them NOT, because they are NOT OF GOD.



John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.



Jesus tells His apostles when the SPIRIT OF TRUTH is come, He will guide them INTO ALL TRUTH, as He will not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear.

If anyone says they have no sin, they DECEIVE THEMSELVES, and the TRUTH IS NOT IN THEM. (A LIE IS IN THEM.)

Then those SAME ONES who say they know Jesus (WHO IS THE TRUTH IN US.) and do not keep HIs commandments are a LIAR. (OF THEIR FATHER THE DEVIL.) and the TRUTH IS NOT IN THEM.)

But the ANOINTING which we received ABIDES IN US, we do not need ANY MAN TO TEACH US, but the same ANOINTING, TEACHES US ALL THINGS, and is TRUTH, and is NO LIE, and even as IT HAS TAUGHT US, we shall ABIDE IN HIM.

HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL, FOR THE DEVIL SINNED FROM THE BEGINNING, THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFSTED TO DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL. (LIES, SINS.)




John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

It is this deficit in us that will drive us as it did David to repentance and growth.

Repentance is this way:



2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[Abraham1st]

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature, for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do, this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Nobody seems how to be honest in this thread, if they were, would they not address what you brought up here.


All you quoted does not need to be talked about it is self evident.

But now, even as people here quoted as well, let us go onto perfection.

Apostle Paul has found the root of the problem, of evil being present, preventing the good, of a delight in God's law to do good in it, in the inward man, in the minds law, (THOUGHTS AND IDEA TO DO GOOD.) but a law in the members, wars against that and forces captivity to sin in the members.

Apostle Paul calls this being a wretched man, and requiring delivery from the body of that death.

THANKING GOD THROGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD WILL DELIVER US FROM THE BODY OF THAT DEAATH.

Meanwhile, with the mind the law of God is served, and the law of sin with the flesh.




Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.




The need for a DELIVERANCE was highlighted.

It did not take long to be answered from the end of that last chapters direction, the beginning of the next chapter is a continuation.

THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION. (WHO SHALL DELIVER ME FROM THE BODY OF THIS DEATH.) to them whch are IN CHRIST JESUS.

The law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus, has MADE ME FREE, (WHO SHALL DELIVER ME/MAKE ME FREED/ FREE ME, FROM THE BODY OF THIS DEATH.) from the law of SIN and DEATH.




Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Abraham1st]

We always going to have imperfections, Paul rebuked Peter because of his 'hipocrisy' remember
but people are exaggerating, is not being perfect and holy like God, is just doing what he ask of people, God doesn't ask impossible things!!

Peter was part of a transformation done/being done by God which was PREVIOUSLY not understood/unknown to ALL.

Peter explaining to the Gentiles, shows how it was UNLAWFUL for a Jew to keep company with a man of another nation, but God showed those LAWS no longer apply, and to not call or consider any man common or unclean ANY LONGER.

God speaks the truth to those Gentiles, that God Peter NOW PERCEIVES, is not a respecter of persons, (whatever nation they are from.) but in every nation the man who fears God and then (BY FAITH.) believes in Christ, is ACCEPTED WITH HIM.

The circumcision CONTENDED with Peter, finding fault that Peter went in to the Gentiles, and ate with them.

Peter explained all to them, in this new understanding God has brought to all through Christ Jesus our Lord, (OF THEIR LAWS NEVER APPLYING ANY MORE.) how as Peter PREACHED FAITH AND AS THE GENTILES HEARD, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM, THE GIFT OF CHRIST THROUGH THE HEARING OF FAITH.


Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as GOD GAVE THEM THE LIKE GIFT as he did unto us, WHO BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, THEN HATH GOD ALSO TO THE GENTILES GRANTED REPENTANCE UNTO LIFE




Apostle Paul had to also put this right for all, which Peter did not mind being the mouthpiece and receiver of this transformation of God to alter the JEWS LAWS, and the same words of Peter fearing those of the CIRCUMCISION, (WHO CONTENDED WITH PETER.) and how others were led away with this fear, of eating with the Gentiles and then fearing to be noticed by those of the CIRCUMCISION.

Paul relates how that is not walking according to the uprightness/truth of the Gospel, and that Peter by that was living as the Gentiles, and will not help in compelling the Gentiles to live as the Jews. (salvation is of the Jews. John 4:22.)




Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

 

[Abraham1st]

So we see the scriptures have answered very well and very simply to any questioning here.

If we do want to know what perfection is, it is exactly this, to stop questioning which prevents perfection, but to have faith and see al is answered perfectly, there are no imperfect testimonies to talk about, it is a lack of faith to assume there is and to talk about them as if they are.

 

[Abraham1st]

So far in this thread we had two labels on Gods holy Apostles, that they do hypocrisy and both Peter and Paul sinning.



Because that's been answered, here are the true examples to believe in and follow..




1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

2 Corinthians 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

 

[Abraham1st]

Also by faith you can take down all the fiery darts of the enemy, so why no do this as exhorted below, meanwhile through faith i can make any fiery dart dissolve on this forum, even in this thread, watch and see for more.




Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[NBB]

So far in this thread we had two labels on Gods holy Apostles, that they do hypocrisy and both Peter and Paul sinning.



Because that's been answered, here are the true examples to believe in and follow..




1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

2 Corinthians 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

I don't say Peter was an hypocrite he obviously was not, but those were Paul words when he described what he was doing.

 

[ARBITER01]

A lot of people say that being holy is being set apart, but i think is not like that.

5 Be holy in everything you do, just as God is holy. He is the one who chose you. 16 In the Scriptures God says, “Be holy, because I am holy.”[b]

The best way to describe holiness is spiritual purity. That comes from being in the presence of GOD for extended times, His holiness rubs off onto us. We share in His holiness,...


9 Moreover, we indeed, had the fathers of our flesh as correctors, and we respected them, shall we not much rather be in subjection unto The FATHER of spirits and live?

10 For they indeed, disciplined us for a few days as it seemed best unto them, but This-One for our benefit, for the partaking of HIS holiness.


With that cleanliness and purity from GOD comes a setting apart from others, as well as from sin and evil.

 

[Abraham1st]

We always going to have imperfections, Paul rebuked Peter because of his 'hipocrisy' remember
but people are exaggerating, is not being perfect and holy like God, is just doing what he ask of people, God doesn't ask impossible things!!

NBB: I don't say Peter was an hypocrite he obviously was not, but those were Paul words when he described what he was doing.




They are your words to label the Lords holy Apostle Peter as a hypocrite.

Also that was your intention, to show a lack of attaining to holiness, so your implication is that this showed Peter as not holy like God, these are your words, was that not your intent.


If you look with me in the KJV version, it clarifies, that concealment is what Peter was doing as all the verses showed was the case, and it was an end t that matter also, as everything was changed from that moment, all that has not changed is those in the law still stay seperate, following laws and not faith.


Apostle Paul blamed Peter because it was not a good example, and why Paul begins expressing how they cannot welcome the Gentiles to the Jews following faith by not following faith, and that they are Jews by nature and not sinners of the Gentiles. (as Peter had not sinned.)

Apostle Paul has to clarify more, and that's why he says how we are justified, is not by the works of the law, (which is dissimulation/works of the flesh) but by the faith of Jesus Christ, as they believed in Jesus Christ, to be justified by the faith of Christ, and not the works of the law, as no one is justified in that. But now Paul relates it again, while we seek to be justified by Christ, se cannot be found to be sinners, as Christ is NOT THE MINISTER OF SIN.

To be a transgressor is to not have faith, but Peter did have faith, and was NOT A TRANSGRESSOR, but THROUGH THE LAW WE ARE DEAD TO THE LAW, THEN WE CAN LIVE UNTO GOD.

We are crucified with Christ, but we live, but not us ourselves, but CHRIST LIVES IN US, and the life we now live in the flesh we live by THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved us and GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.

We do not frustrate the grace of God, RIGHTEOUSNESS DOES NOT COME BY THE LAW, Christ is not dead in vain.


Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.



Now if you look at your modern translations, they are quite ridicules, to see this as hypocrisy, not just for Peter, but for the believing Jews with him, it is a false accusation, one you might use if you also want to answer for it on judgement day on your knees about the Lords holy apostles.



Galatians 2: 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.





Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.


Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Revelation 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

 

[Fervent]

A lot of people say that being holy is being set apart, but i think is not like that.

5 Be holy in everything you do, just as God is holy. He is the one who chose you. 16 In the Scriptures God says, “Be holy, because I am holy.”[b]

I'm just going by what the word means, because the focus on what it means to do holy things puts the emphasis on us rather than God. The only way for us to be holy is by His grace. We cannot make ourselves holy, we can only align how we act with the holy nature God has bestowed upon us.

 

[Abraham1st]

The best way to describe holiness is spiritual purity. That comes from being in the presence of GOD for extended times, His holiness rubs off onto us. We share in His holiness,...


9 Moreover, we indeed, had the fathers of our flesh as correctors, and we respected them, shall we not much rather be in subjection unto The FATHER of spirits and live?

10 For they indeed, disciplined us for a few days as it seemed best unto them, but This-One for our benefit, for the partaking of HIS holiness.


With that cleanliness and purity from GOD comes a setting apart from others, as well as from sin and evil.

What you describe is not quite what the verses say in relation to how holiness works, and how you describe holiness rubbing off on us, if we are in His presence.

So follow the words here with me, first the hands that hang down are to be lifted up, and healed, otherwise if we do not follow straight paths for our feet, we are turned out of the way, if we are broken, and then we FOLLOW PEACE AND HOLINESS WITH ALL MEN, without which NO MAN SHALL SEE THE LORD.

WE LOOK DILIGENTLY, IN CASE WE FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD, by bitterness springing up, which MANY ARE DEFILED BY, (UNHOLINESS.)

Esau sold his birthright for a piece of bread, he would have inherited the blessing, but was REJECTED, and found NO PLACE OF REPENTANCE. (WE WILL BE THAT SAME EXAMPLE BY DOING THE SAME WAY.)


Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.



Here again is for HOLINESS BEFORE GOD.

Good tidings of our FAITH AND CHARITY.

Apostle Paul always exhorts to bring to PERFECTION what is LACKING/MISSING in some, or many people's faith, and for God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, to direct their way unto them, and the Lord to make them to INCREASE AND ABOUND IN LOVE one toward another, and toward ALL MEN, EVEN AS THE LORDS HOLY APOSTLES DO TOWARD THEM, to this end, that He may ESTABLISH THEIR HEARTS UNBLAMEABLE IN HOLINESS BEFORE GOD, EVEN OUR FATHER AT THE COMING OF UR LORD JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL HIS SAINTS.



1 Thessalonians 3:6 But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity, and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you:
7 Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your faith:
8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;
10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

 

[ARBITER01]

What you describe is not quite what the verses say in relation to how holiness works, and how you describe holiness rubbing off on us, if we are in His presence.

Yes it is.

Holiness comes from GOD, not anything else. We don't create it ourselves.

 

[Abraham1st]

I'm just going by what the word means, because the focus on what it means to do holy things puts the emphasis on us rather than God. The only way for us to be holy is by His grace. We cannot make ourselves holy, we can only align how we act with the holy nature God has bestowed upon us.

The word means what it says, not what we interpret.

Lets see where the emphasis is, and lets see what the grace is at the same moment, and if it is we doing what is holiness, or of it is us aligning with the holy nature God has already done to us.



Right away the EXHORTATION is to be SOBER in your mind, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE, to be revealed unto us at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

To be AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioned to former LUSTS in YOUR IGNORANCE, but He which has called you is Holy, so be you holy.

Pass the time you have here IN FEAR, as the Father judges WITHOUT RESPECT OF PERSONS, according to EVERY MANS WORK, knowing we were not redeemed with CORRUPTIBLE THINGS, but with the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, as a lamb without BLEMISH OR SPOT.

PURIFY YOUR SOULS in obeying the truth, through the Spirit, unto UNFEIGNED LOVE OF THE BROTHERS, SEE THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER WITH A PURE HEART FERVENTLY, being BORN AGAIN of INCORRUPTIBLE seed, by the Word of God.


1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.



The Lords HOLY apostle Peter continues, of what MANNER OF PERSONS WE SHOULD BE IN ALL HOLY CONVERSATION AND GODLINESS, the beloved who look for the new heavens where there is RIGHTEOUSNESS, they have to be DILIGENT TO BE FOUND OF HIM IN PEACE, WITHOUT SPOT AND BLAMELESS, AND ACCOUNT THAT THE LONGSUFFERING OF THE LORD IS SALVATION.

Not be as those who wrest the scriptures UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

The beloved are to BEWARE UNLESS THEY ALSO ARE LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED, by falling from their own steadfastness, but as the EXHORTATION REVEALS, to GROW IN THIS GRACE IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.





2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Abraham1st]

Yes it is.

Holiness comes from GOD, not anything else. We don't create it ourselves.

We are instructed how to be holy, faith comes from God, we are faithless if we do not follow the faith, which faithfully instructs us.



so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

 

[Abraham1st]

So basically the thread is about not doing hat is holy, in any way it can find excuses not to, ie, by placing confused examples of the apostles failing, and ten of other verses which seem to suggest we do nothing.

Good luck in that to all, as there is a wealth of scripture to undermine that attempt, and I happen to be able to locate them all for us to show right here at any moment anyone needs.