The 2025 Government Shutdown Thread

[Nithavela]

Everyone dies eventually. Why should someone be taxed because they acquired more resources than another? It’s ridiculous.

~bella

People being taxed because they "acquired more resources" is the basis of most modern tax systems.

 

[bèlla]

People being taxed because they "acquired more resources" is the basis of most modern tax systems.

Having a large estate isn’t a crime and you’ve already paid. If you’re taxing death you do it across the board or leave it alone.

~bella

 

[iluvatar5150]

Having a large estate isn’t a crime and you’ve already paid. If you’re taxing death you do it across the board or leave it alone.

~bella

Every dollar in circulation has been taxed at some point. If we stopped levying taxes on money that's already been taxed, we'd collect no taxes.

Aside from real estate/property tax, most taxes in this country (and others) are levied when money changes hands. There are exemptions for various things (e.g. food, transactions below a certain threshold, etc), but that's the gist. My boss pays me; we get taxed. I pay the store; we get taxed. The store pays its employees; they get taxed. The employee buys one of my games at GameStop; they get taxed. GameStop pays my employer; my employer gets taxed. It's the circle of life.

Taxing inheritance is no different. Likewise, setting an exemption to the first $X of an inheritance is no different than many other forms of taxation, such as income tax. In the case of inheritance tax, a high exemption can help prevent the liquidation of businesses that get passed down. It doesn't look good for politicians if Dad dies and Son has to sell the family business in order to pay off Uncle Sam.

 

[bèlla]

Taxing inheritance is no different. Likewise, setting an exemption to the first $X of an inheritance is no different than many other forms of taxation, such as income tax. In the case of inheritance tax, a high exemption can help prevent the liquidation of businesses that get passed down. It doesn't look good for politicians if Dad dies and Son has to sell the family business in order to pay off Uncle Sam.

The purpose of a sizable estate is paying it forward and leaving the next in a better place financially. You find the same principle in the bible.

~bella

 

[Nithavela]

Having a large estate isn’t a crime

Non-criminal revenue can also be taxed.

and you’ve already paid.

There is no reason why money can only be taxed once in it's existence.

If you’re taxing death you do it across the board or leave it alone.

Why?

 

[Desk trauma]

The purpose of a sizable estate is paying it forward and leaving the next in a better place financially. You find the same principle in the bible.

~bella

I know, silly to think anyone could possibly do that with a piddling $14 million untaxed threshold! How can you possibly build inter generational wealth like that?

 

[iluvatar5150]

The purpose of a sizable estate is paying it forward and leaving the next in a better place financially. You find the same principle in the bible.

~bella

That's nice, but that's not what you were arguing about. The current exemptions on the estate tax leave more than enough for any one heir to be set for life without paying a penny. If you're hitting the estate tax, you're either leaving behind a business with a fair amount of assets or you're leaving wealth that would put you in the top 1-2% of Americans.

Another principle you find in the Bible is to render unto ceasar what's ceasar's.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The purpose of a sizable estate is paying it forward and leaving the next in a better place financially. You find the same principle in the bible.

~bella

There's nothing about an estate tax that prevents you from doing so - especially one that doesn't kick in until such a high threshold. Moreover, our tax code has so many loopholes that someone with an estate large enough to exceed the exemption could easily afford to pay a lawyer to figure out ways to legally shift money and properties around such that their heir(s) would get the maximum benefits.

 

[bèlla]

I know, silly to think anyone could possibly do that with a piddling $14 million untaxed threshold! How can you possibly build inter generational wealth like that?

That isn’t a lot when you factor in a business.

That's nice, but that's not what you were arguing about. The current exemptions on the estate tax leave more than enough for any one heir to be set for life without paying a penny. If you're hitting the estate tax, you're either leaving behind a business with a fair amount of assets or you're leaving wealth that would put you in the top 1-2% of Americans.

Another principle you find in the Bible is to render unto ceasar what's ceasar's.

I’m not altering my position. Nor am I advocating absconding the law. The current amount isn‘t a lot for heirs if you’re thinking long-term. It depends on your intentions and what you feel is appropriate.

~bella

 

[Desk trauma]

That isn’t a lot when you factor in a business.

$14 million in assets isn’t a lot? Really?

 

[iluvatar5150]

That isn’t a lot when you factor in a business.

It's plenty. Tech startups might have the potential to be worth a ton, but most businesses valuations are a lot more reasonable. Assuming we're not talking about something really asset-heavy, most businesses with a valuation of $14 million would netting in the single-digit millions per year, which would mean they're grossing mid double-digit millions / year. That's a pretty sizeable business.

I’m not altering my position. Nor am I advocating absconding the law. The current amount isn‘t a lot for heirs if you’re thinking long-term. It depends on your intentions and what you feel is appropriate.

Wut? $14 million isn't a lot for heirs if you're thinking long-term? $14m invested in something with 7% returns (i.e. conservative-ish for the stock market) would net you just shy of $1m/yr in perpetuity.

For whom isn't this "a lot"?

 

[bèlla]

$14 million in assets isn’t a lot? Really?

I’m not jesting nor do I expect you to agree. If you feel differently that’s okay.

$14 million for a lifespan of 80 years as the average and monies distributed from birth is $175,000 per year.
$14 million with the same lifespan with distribution occurring at 30 (the norm) is $280,000 per year.

That doesn’t factor in the cost of living or a home. If you require the latter you’ll probably have to work.

~bella

 

[bèlla]

It's plenty. Tech startups might have the potential to be worth a ton, but most businesses valuations are a lot more reasonable. Assuming we're not talking about something really asset-heavy, most businesses with a valuation of $14 million would netting in the single-digit millions per year, which would mean they're grossing mid double-digit millions / year. That's a pretty sizeable business.

That isn’t an applicable example. Many are publicly traded and carry debt. When you’re not answering to shareholders or the bank you have a different perspective.

Wut? $14 million isn't a lot for heirs if you're thinking long-term? $14m invested in something with 7% returns (i.e. conservative-ish for the stock market) would net you just shy of $1m/yr in perpetuity.

For whom isn't this "a lot"?

You’re factoring in the interest and I don’t. I know it’s there of course but the base must be enough and the extra is the cherry on top.

~bella

 

[Nithavela]

I’m not jesting nor do I expect you to agree. If you feel differently that’s okay.

$14 million for a lifespan of 80 years as the average and monies distributed from birth is $175,000 per year.
$14 million with the same lifespan with distribution occurring at 30 (the norm) is $280,000 per year.

That doesn’t factor in the cost of living or a home. If you require the latter you’ll probably have to work.

The horror.

 

[Desk trauma]

I’m not jesting nor do I expect you to agree. If you feel differently that’s okay.

$14 million for a lifespan of 80 years as the average and monies distributed from birth is $175,000 per year.
$14 million with the same lifespan with distribution occurring at 30 (the norm) is $280,000 per year.

That doesn’t factor in the cost of living or a home. If you require the latter you’ll probably have to work.

~bella

I’m sorry, what? You think people upon getting millions are going to have it sit in a vault as cash never accruing even simple interest nor being invested in anything that could provide a return?

 

[bèlla]

I’m sorry, what? You think people upon getting millions are going to have it sit in a vault as cash never accruing even simple interest nor being invested in anything that could provide a return?

I didn’t say that at all. I said the number wasn’t enough. Nor I didn’t mention financial vehicles beyond distribution in my response.

~bella

 

[Desk trauma]

I didn’t say that at all. I said the number wasn’t enough. Nor I didn’t mention financial vehicles beyond distribution in my response.

~bella

Ah, acrobatics to make $14 million not a lot of money. Nice.

 

[iluvatar5150]

That isn’t an applicable example. Many are publicly traded and carry debt. When you’re not answering to shareholders or the bank you have a different perspective.

What are you talking about?

You’re factoring in the interest and I don’t.

Ok, so you're just using nonsense to make your case. Good to know.

 

[Desk trauma]

The horror.

If used in the dumbest way possible it only provides a comfortable income for life. How awful!

 

[bèlla]

What are you talking about?

You brought up tech firms I didn’t. That’s your reference not mine.

Ok, so you're just using nonsense to make your case. Good to know.

I’m not making a case or apologizing for my position. My perspective on wealth doesn’t have to make sense to anyone. That’s where we differ. If you said the same I wouldn’t say a word or at best good luck. I’m not bothered by the number.

~bella