Curious as to what precisely makes Full-Preterism considered an non orthodox heresy?

[Ed Parenteau]

Are heretics people who bring a false gospel, the ones Jesus says not to have a conversation with , nor share a meal, nor invite them in to your home, lest it brings the same judgment , certain perfectly right judgement, as they themselves receive at God's Hand ?

Can I suggest looking up the word "heresy" and "heretic" in the bible. Here is a list of the word "heresy" Strong's Greek: 139. αἵρεσις (hairesis) -- Sect, faction, heresy and the one time the word heretic is used and is in direct context of the law: Sounds just like the Judaizers to me.
Titus 3:9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

What say you?

 

[Aaron112]

The web 'summary' seems proper/ accurate:
re Titus 3:9
"advises against engaging in "foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law" because they are "unprofitable and worthless". The verse is a directive from the Apostle Paul to Titus to avoid pointless disputes and debates that distract from the core message of the Gospel and cause unnecessary conflict within the church.

• "Foolish controversies" and "quarrels about the law":
  These refer to debates over legalistic interpretations of Jewish law that were becoming divisive in the early church.
  
  
• "Genealogies":
  This could refer to endless lists of names from the Old Testament or other myths and debates that were seen as a distraction from the main message of faith and salvation through Christ.
  
  
• • "Unprofitable and worthless":
    The verse emphasizes that these kinds of disputes are a waste of time and energy that do not lead to spiritual growth or benefit the community.
    
  • Context:
    The verse is part of a broader letter from Paul to Titus, who was leading the church on the island of Crete. Paul's instructions are about building a healthy, functional church community focused on sound doctrine and godly living. "

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

He doesn't come physically, but He still in His words "comes" I am coming quickly", "hold fast to what you have until I come," So, when He says that, what do you think He means.

This:

THE COMING OF THE LORD

The Bible's record of the Lord physically coming to the earth.

wordservice.org

Or this, much longer:

The Coming Or The Day Of The Lord

A scriptural view about the coming of the Lord.

wordservice.org

 

[David Lamb]

If your talking physically that there's no "second coming", I completely agree as He didn't actually come physically the first time--He was born of a virgin here on earth, but He did come. The same with the "second coming", He doesn't come physically, but He still in His words "comes" I am coming quickly", "hold fast to what you have until I come," So, when He says that, what do you think He means.

I don't understand how you can say that He was born of a virgin, but that He didn't actually come physically the first time. If He didn't come physically, why does the bible say:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.” (1Ti 3:16 NKJV)

How could a spiritually being be crucified?

As for His Second Coming, the angel told His disciples:

“Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”” (Ac 1:11 NKJV)

In other words, He didn't ascend invisibly, and He will not return invisibly.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

I don't understand how you can say that He was born of a virgin, but that He didn't actually come physically the first time. If He didn't come physically, why does the bible say:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

Like it says, He ""became flesh", He didn't come already in the flesh.

“Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”” (Ac 1:11 NKJV)

In other words, He didn't ascend invisibly, and He will not return invisibly.

That's not quite what it says. Did He disappear in a cloud first or did He go into heaven first?
Acts 1:9After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
How did they see Him go into heaven? In a cloud. How will He return? In the clouds of heaven. Proof:
Matthew 24:30
Mark 14:62
Matthew 26:64

Is there any proof where it says He will return in the flesh? Certainly not that I'm aware of, in fact, just the opposite can be proven. Hebrews 5:7 7"In the days of his flesh", Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.
Here's a list of the phrase "in the days of" and you will find that it always confines something to a period of time.
https://biblehub.com/searchnt.php?q="in+the+days+of"

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Like it says, He ""became flesh", He didn't come already in the flesh.


That's not quite what it says. Did He disappear in a cloud first or did He go into heaven first?
Acts 1:9After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
How did they see Him go into heaven? In a cloud. How will He return? In the clouds of heaven. Proof:
Matthew 24:30
Mark 14:62
Matthew 26:64

Is there any proof where it says He will return in the flesh? Certainly not that I'm aware of, in fact, just the opposite can be proven. Hebrews 5:7 7"In the days of his flesh", Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.
Here's a list of the phrase "in the days of" and you will find that it always confines something to a period of time.
https://biblehub.com/searchnt.php?q="in+the+days+of"

Or:​

This prophecy below is part of a series of prophecies from Isaiah about the nations Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon will conquer. Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.....4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the LORD of hosts.​

I might add, just what kind of clouds are we talking about here? Wouldn't be the cloud that filled the tabernacle? Or the cloud that filled Solomon's temple when the priests were singing the praises of the Lord? Or the cloud that occasionally manifests every few decades at very spiritual church meetings?​

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

.... (not yet that I agree with previous posts) ..... or a cloud of the redeemed , or a cloud of angels , or ? ..... branching out, not knowing yet ...... a cloud of words, a cloud of thoughts, a cloud of unknown ....

How about we stick with the types in the Bible.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

hmmmm...... getting into shaky, often false, happenings ?

Jesus Christ is not the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? Notice I did not say all the time but used the word decades? But you certainly don't have to believe he would do that occasionally. I don't care. Don't obscure my point with it. That the verse in Acts may be talking about the cloud of the Holy Sprits power rather than rain clouds or clouds of Judgment.

 

[David Lamb]

Like it says, He ""became flesh", He didn't come already in the flesh.

He "became flesh" as soon as He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. So when He came into the world, when He was born, He was already in the flesh. He could not have been born otherwise.

That's not quite what it says. Did He disappear in a cloud first or did He go into heaven first?
Acts 1:9After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. 10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
How did they see Him go into heaven? In a cloud. How will He return? In the clouds of heaven. Proof:
Matthew 24:30
Mark 14:62
Matthew 26:64

Is there any proof where it says He will return in the flesh? Certainly not that I'm aware of, in fact, just the opposite can be proven. Hebrews 5:7 7"In the days of his flesh", Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.
Here's a list of the phrase "in the days of" and you will find that it always confines something to a period of time.
https://biblehub.com/searchnt.php?q="in+the+days+of"

If His second coming is only spiritual, how will every eye see Him, as the bible says they will?

 

[Ed Parenteau]

This:

THE COMING OF THE LORD

The Bible's record of the Lord physically coming to the earth.

wordservice.org

Or this, much longer:

The Coming Or The Day Of The Lord

A scriptural view about the coming of the Lord.

wordservice.org

When did Jesus become flesh? If He became flesh at His incarnation, then how did He come physically in the old testament? Everyone that refers to the "second coming" is referring to Jesus having come at His incarnation which is also called an "appearance" and will/did "come again", whether they are futurist or preterist. "Coming" and "appearance" are used synonymously Hebrews 9:28 and 1John4:2 about the first coming and Hebrews 9:28 and John 14:3 with regards the second coming/appearance.
In order to prove that God came down physically you would have to disprove the following:
John 1:16No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

 

[Aaron112]

When did Jesus become flesh?

"Jesus became flesh at the time of his incarnation, which is understood to be at his birth to the Virgin Mary. The Gospel of John states, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,” indicating that the divine Word, who existed eternally with God, took on human form at this point. This event is described as the Creator becoming part of creation. The incarnation is also affirmed in Philippians 2:7, where Christ “took the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men,” and in 1 Timothy 3:16, which declares that “God was manifested in the flesh”. While Jesus existed eternally in the divine form before this event, he did not have a physical body prior to the incarnation. The moment of becoming flesh is thus tied to his conception and birth, marking the beginning of his human life."

 

[Ed Parenteau]

If His second coming is only spiritual, how will every eye see Him, as the bible says they will?

We have to go back to Zechariah to the prophecy regarding that. Let's start with who were told would see Him.

Zechariah 12:10Then I will pour out on the house of David and on the people of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and prayer, and they will look on Me, the One they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

At the crucifixion John19:37And, as another Scripture says: “They will look on the One they have pierced.”

At the Sanhedrin leading up to the crucifixion: 63But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Rev1:7Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

Who did Zechariah prophecy would be the tribes who would mourn Him:
Zechariah 12:11On that day the wailing in Jerusalem will be as great as the wailing of Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12The land will mourn, each clan on its own: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14and all the remaining clans and their wives.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

"Jesus became flesh at the time of his incarnation, which is understood to be at his birth to the Virgin Mary. The Gospel of John states, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,” indicating that the divine Word, who existed eternally with God, took on human form at this point. This event is described as the Creator becoming part of creation. The incarnation is also affirmed in Philippians 2:7, where Christ “took the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men,” and in 1 Timothy 3:16, which declares that “God was manifested in the flesh”. While Jesus existed eternally in the divine form before this event, he did not have a physical body prior to the incarnation. The moment of becoming flesh is thus tied to his conception and birth, marking the beginning of his human life."

Then we agree 100%. The whole point I was trying to make is that He wasn't physical before His incarnation.