Who then can be saved?

[Dan1988]

That’s because you’ve read it selectively, through the lens of a novel theology which only allows for half the “equation”. We are debtors for what God has done for us. We must remain in Him, doing His will, responding to His ever available grace with its gift of righteousness. Salvation is a journey, a walk with Him- towards eternity with Him.

“Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Heb 12:14

“If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

“For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!” Rom 5:17

“When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.” Rom 6:20-22

Rom 8:12-14 perhaps brings it together best:
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.”

I appreciate that you had a dramatic conversion experience. That does not mean that you could never turn back away even if improbable in your case

You refer to the above verses, as if they were given as conditions to meet before you can be saved. But my Bible describes salvation as being a done deal, before God created the earth. God wrote down the names of every single person He purposed to save, before the world was created.

I'm not sure if you believe that the Holy Bible is Gods Word, if you do believe it is, then you must believe >>>

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Ephesians 1:4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

You really can't dispose of verses like these above, yet they contradict your "saved by works" version of the gospel.

Galatians 2:16 So we also believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works ..

And again, because "NO ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED BY WORKS", do you believe or reject what the Bible clearly says.

I don't go along with your theory that one can use the Bible to support radically opposing doctrines, if you were right, then it means that Gods Word contradicts itself and is not reliable or consistent.
So, I must conclude that there's nothing wrong with the Bible and that means something must be wrong with your interpretation of it.

None of the verses you referred to, support the "saved by works" version of the gospel. I would like you to find me a single verse that states that salvation is dependant on mans ability to remain faithful, or mans ability to resist the temptation to sin, or mans ability to abide in Christ, or mans ability to keep any of the commandments.

All of the verses you referred to, are about people who are already saved. And all of their goods works arew done through the Holy Spirit, who indwells them. God works through His people, He does everything to save His people, from the beginning to the end.

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat.

Yet some reject this and claim that they initiated their salvation and they remained faithful to the end, thus usurping Christs place as the Redeemer.

The Lord Jesus, said "for without Me, you can do nothing". Yet some say, "no Lord, you need me to finish the work you began". The Lord Jesus said, on the cross "it is finished".

 

[Dan1988]

I actually did a video explaining how this verse can’t support eternal security.

Sorry but I stopped watching after about a minute, because of the false interpretation of the first verse. You failed to take into consideration the first part of the verse, which states "All that the Father has give to Me,, shall come to Me".

The narrator, ignores the first part of the verse and tries to say there's a problem with the word "come". Ha says, it has a present tense meaning in the Greek.
That instantly blew his theory out of the water, because the father didn't just decide to give Jesus the elect in that moment. No the deal was done before the world was created, so I didn't need to waste anymore time listening to false interpretations.

You should never pluck out single words out of their intended context and apply some unrelated meaning to them. That is to abuse Gods Word.

 

[Dan1988]

I don’t know how we got on works based salvation other than that’s the typical derailment from the real issue. The fact is that Jesus specifically said that some will believe for a while then fall away. And the EOC doesn’t teach that we are saved by works that’s just a misrepresentation of their actual theology.

Where did Jesus say "some will believe for a while, then fall away"???? let me answer hat for you and save you time looking for something that doesn't exist. Answer, "Jesus never said anything of the sort".

The EOC is the same as the RCC, both teach "works based salvation", while the Protestant Church teaches the Biblical "saved by grace" gospel.

 

[Dan1988]

Why do you keep bringing up works based salvation? That’s not even remotely associated with the topic of my post.

All Christian Denominations either hold to the "saved by works" version of the gospel, or they hold to the "saved by grace" gospel.
Not sure, why you don't reveal which of the two you believe

 

[2PhiloVoid]

All Christian Denominations either hold to the "saved by works" version of the gospel, or they hold to the "saved by grace" gospel.
Not sure, why you don't reveal which of the two you believe

I'm of the "saved by grace through faith" camp, where 'faith' equates generally to a faithful response rather than merely to passive belief.

 

[Dan1988]

Stumbling in sin isn’t falling away. Falling away is turning away from faith in Christ and the gospel, not stumbling in sin. If failing to remain in Christ isn’t an option for believers then John 15:1-7 is a useless message that is describing an impossible scenario and Paul’s message to Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:12 is also a useless message. Both Jesus and Paul were warning their disciples of a real danger, not an impossible scenario.

The elect were chosen according to God’s foreknowledge. He foresaw those who would choose to believe of their own free will and who would abide in Christ and endure to the end.

You’re misquoting John 15:4 “without Me you can do nothing”. In what context did Jesus say those words? He said that when He was warning His 11 faithful apostles about the importance of abiding in Him and warning them about the consequences of failing to abide in Him. So the way you’re using that statement here doesn’t make any sense at all. Why is Jesus telling His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him and bear fruit if it’s not up to them and they have no control over whether or not they abide in Christ or whether they bear fruit or not? And why is He telling them the consequences of failing to abiding in Him in verse 6 if they can’t fail to abide in Him? In Matthew 10:28 Jesus tells His apostles “do not fear those who are able to kill the body but are unable to kill the soul but fear Him who is able to kill both body and soul in hell”. What is the point of that statement?

Romans 3:10-12 is not a literal statement, it’s a proverbial statement. It’s like if I were to say no one writes letters anymore because of email and social media. It’s not intended to be taken literally that not a single person on the planet writes letters anymore, it’s intended to imply that very few people write letters anymore because Paul also wrote that none are righteous, and yet the scriptures specifically state that many people are in fact righteous. Able, Noah, Job, Lot, Abraham, Zachariah, and a few others were specifically said to be righteous men, not to mention Jesus Christ Himself.

Wow, very mixed up interpretations there. You have managed to misinterpret every single verse.

Where did the Lord Jesus or Paul warn anyone that they would lose their salvation if they failed to abide in Christ or fail to remain faithful. Answer >>> Nowhere!!!, you will not find a single verse suggesting any such silly thing.

How did you manage to twist the meaning o the word "IF" and force it to mean "I command you". That's has to be the most blatant abuse of scripture that I have ever come across.

Both the Lord Jesus and Paul confirm that you are dead wrong, Paul admits that he is overpowered by his sin nature, but you reckon he was just telling lies. >>>

Romans 7:19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

See Paul is ruled by his sin nature. He admits it right there but you don't believe he's telling the truth.

Read Matthew 19 where Jesus tells His Disciples that it's impossible to be saved by keeping the law as you and your denomination teaches.

Matthew 19:25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

You may need to relearn the basics of the gospel, before you enter into theological debates. Every time you make claims I show you how wrong you are, by referring to what Gods Word says about the mater.

 

[Dan1988]

The elect are chosen according to His foreknowledge, not just randomly or on a whim.

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The idea that God looked down the corridors of time, and saw Johnny helping the old lady cross the road and then decided that Johnny deserves to inherit the Kingdom, has been well and truly debunked 2000 years ago.

You will have to come up with something more convincing then that lame argument.

 

[Dan1988]

I'm of the "saved by grace through faith" camp, where 'faith' equates generally to a faithful response rather than merely to passive belief.

I'm afraid your camp is unbiblical, because you did not create your faith. If you have faith, you have it because God gave it to you as a gift, lest any man should boast.

Both grace and faith are gifts. You don't get to create anything, everything you have, was given to you by God.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm afraid your camp is unbiblical, because you did not create your faith. If you have faith, you have it because God gave it to you as a gift, lest any man should boast.

That is a non-sequitur. You have no idea "how" I've come to be a Christian, nor have you asked what my own approach to Biblical Hermeneutics is.

At this moment, you have ZERO grounds for accurately diagnosing either my status as a Christian or whether or not my own understanding of the Scriptures is 'accurate' or not. Notice, too, I'm not doing the same to you; I'm not spending time here asserting that you're somehow not a fellow Christian.

Both grace and faith are gifts. You don't get to create anything, everything you have, was given to you by God.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

If you're going to nonchalantly cherry-pick a verse from Paul's letter to the Ephesians, then I'm going to insist that you and I read his entire letter to the Ephesians together, verse by verse, to gain Paul's flow of thought and his cumulative contexts which inform and contour the meaning of Ephesians 2:8-10.

Let's see if Paul states that Christians don't have to make any efforts whatsoever in their lives to fulfill what "faith" means.

 

[fhansen]

You refer to the above verses, as if they were given as conditions to meet before you can be saved. But my Bible describes salvation as being a done deal, before God created the earth. God wrote down the names of every single person He purposed to save, before the world was created.

I'm not sure if you believe that the Holy Bible is Gods Word, if you do believe it is, then you must believe >>>

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Ephesians 1:4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

You really can't dispose of verses like these above, yet they contradict your "saved by works" version of the gospel.

Galatians 2:16 So we also believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works ..

And again, because "NO ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED BY WORKS", do you believe or reject what the Bible clearly says.

I don't go along with your theory that one can use the Bible to support radically opposing doctrines, if you were right, then it means that Gods Word contradicts itself and is not reliable or consistent.
So, I must conclude that there's nothing wrong with the Bible and that means something must be wrong with your interpretation of it.

None of the verses you referred to, support the "saved by works" version of the gospel. I would like you to find me a single verse that states that salvation is dependant on mans ability to remain faithful, or mans ability to resist the temptation to sin, or mans ability to abide in Christ, or mans ability to keep any of the commandments.

All of the verses you referred to, are about people who are already saved. And all of their goods works arew done through the Holy Spirit, who indwells them. God works through His people, He does everything to save His people, from the beginning to the end.

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat.

Yet some reject this and claim that they initiated their salvation and they remained faithful to the end, thus usurping Christs place as the Redeemer.

The Lord Jesus, said "for without Me, you can do nothing". Yet some say, "no Lord, you need me to finish the work you began". The Lord Jesus said, on the cross "it is finished".

As has already been said, God, alone, justifies the ungodly. He does the justifying as we become united with Him through faith which, itself, is both a gift and a choice.. But then we're required to walk in that justice, to live it.. And that understanding is the bridge between your verses and mine. That walk is a moment-by-moment or daily choice aided by grace, by Him. If it was guaranteed, then no believer would ever sin. But that's not the case.

And another thing that pertains to God, alone, is absolute perfect knowledge of who the elect are, exactly who are being referred to in the verses you present

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sorry but I stopped watching after about a minute, because of the false interpretation of the first verse. You failed to take into consideration the first part of the verse, which states "All that the Father has give to Me,, shall come to Me".

The narrator, ignores the first part of the verse and tries to say there's a problem with the word "come". Ha says, it has a present tense meaning in the Greek.
That instantly blew his theory out of the water, because the father didn't just decide to give Jesus the elect in that moment. No the deal was done before the world was created, so I didn't need to waste anymore time listening to false interpretations.

You should never pluck out single words out of their intended context and apply some unrelated meaning to them. That is to abuse Gods Word.

Ok so you’re saying that everyone came to Christ before creation? So Paul was a Christian before the road to Damascus while he was persecuting Christians? Were you born a believer?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sorry but I stopped watching after about a minute, because of the false interpretation of the first verse. You failed to take into consideration the first part of the verse, which states "All that the Father has give to Me,, shall come to Me".

The narrator, ignores the first part of the verse and tries to say there's a problem with the word "come". Ha says, it has a present tense meaning in the Greek.
That instantly blew his theory out of the water, because the father didn't just decide to give Jesus the elect in that moment. No the deal was done before the world was created, so I didn't need to waste anymore time listening to false interpretations.

You should never pluck out single words out of their intended context and apply some unrelated meaning to them. That is to abuse Gods Word.

Oh and you obviously didn’t pay attention because that’s not what I said at all. I said the word “comes” not the word come and I highlighted it red letters in the text on the screen. I also showed the lexicon definition of Greek word Erchomai that is translated to “comes” at 1 minute 8 seconds into the video.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where did Jesus say "some will believe for a while, then fall away"???? let me answer hat for you and save you time looking for something that doesn't exist. Answer, "Jesus never said anything of the sort".

The EOC is the same as the RCC, both teach "works based salvation", while the Protestant Church teaches the Biblical "saved by grace" gospel.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

We’re not talking about works based salvation we’re talking about eternal security so try to stay on topic.

 

[BNR32FAN]

All Christian Denominations either hold to the "saved by works" version of the gospel, or they hold to the "saved by grace" gospel.
Not sure, why you don't reveal which of the two you believe

I believe in saved by faith.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where did the Lord Jesus or Paul warn anyone that they would lose their salvation if they failed to abide in Christ or fail to remain faithful. Answer >>> Nowhere!!!, you will not find a single verse suggesting any such silly thing.

How did you manage to twist the meaning o the word "IF" and force it to mean "I command you". That's has to be the most blatant abuse of scripture that I have ever come across.

The words “if anyone” applies to everyone.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Both the Lord Jesus and Paul confirm that you are dead wrong, Paul admits that he is overpowered by his sin nature, but you reckon he was just telling lies. >>>

Here you’re just resorting to false accusations, can we just discuss the scriptures in a civil manner and dispense with the unpleasantries please?

Paul wrote this to Timothy, notice the words “we” and “us” indicating that this would include both Paul and Timothy.

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wow, very mixed up interpretations there. You have managed to misinterpret every single verse.

Where did the Lord Jesus or Paul warn anyone that they would lose their salvation if they failed to abide in Christ or fail to remain faithful. Answer >>> Nowhere!!!, you will not find a single verse suggesting any such silly thing.

How did you manage to twist the meaning o the word "IF" and force it to mean "I command you". That's has to be the most blatant abuse of scripture that I have ever come across.

Both the Lord Jesus and Paul confirm that you are dead wrong, Paul admits that he is overpowered by his sin nature, but you reckon he was just telling lies. >>>

Romans 7:19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

See Paul is ruled by his sin nature. He admits it right there but you don't believe he's telling the truth.

Read Matthew 19 where Jesus tells His Disciples that it's impossible to be saved by keeping the law as you and your denomination teaches.

Matthew 19:25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

You may need to relearn the basics of the gospel, before you enter into theological debates. Every time you make claims I show you how wrong you are, by referring to what Gods Word says about the mater.

What denomination do you think I am? You’re just throwing out accusations like you know anything about me. And I never said that Paul didn’t sin. Do you even know where Roman’s 3:10-12 comes from? You quoted it, do you know why Paul said it?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The idea that God looked down the corridors of time, and saw Johnny helping the old lady cross the road and then decided that Johnny deserves to inherit the Kingdom, has been well and truly debunked 2000 years ago.

You will have to come up with something more convincing then that lame argument.

Did you ever stop to think that just maybe God foreknew those who would abide in Christ and endure to the end and maybe that’s what He based His choice on, not on our good works?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm afraid your camp is unbiblical, because you did not create your faith. If you have faith, you have it because God gave it to you as a gift, lest any man should boast.

Both grace and faith are gifts. You don't get to create anything, everything you have, was given to you by God.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The gift of God received THRU FAITH. Not apart from faith.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is a non-sequitur. You have no idea "how" I've come to be a Christian, nor have you asked what my own approach to Biblical Hermeneutics is.

At this moment, you have ZERO grounds for accurately diagnosing either my status as a Christian or whether or not my own understanding of the Scriptures is 'accurate' or not. Notice, too, I'm not doing the same to you; I'm not spending time here asserting that you're somehow not a fellow Christian.


If you're going to nonchalantly cherry-pick a verse from Paul's letter to the Ephesians, then I'm going to insist that you and I read his entire letter to the Ephesians together, verse by verse, to gain Paul's flow of thought and his cumulative contexts which inform and contour the meaning of Ephesians 2:8-10.

Let's see if Paul states that Christians don't have to make any efforts whatsoever in their lives to fulfill what "faith" means.

Honestly I think this guy is just here to troll.