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SHOW ME YOUR WORKS BY YOUR FAITH. ( THOSE WHO TEACH LAW, WHCH IS NOT OF FAITH.)

Hazelelponi

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Can anyone on the Christian forum, with all great theology, great knowledge, even having faith that could remove mountains, be anything, without charity ?

There's no way anyone can be anything without Christ; apart from Christ we are dead in our sins and our trespasses, regardless of how much love we perceive ourselves to possess.

Scripture teaches we are justified by faith apart from works of the law (Romans 3:28) Faith comes from God, and with that Faith, comes love; we love because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

The faith that justifies is never alone; by the Spirit it inevitably works through love (Galatians 5:6) because Christ is Himself love (1 John 4:7-21) and all things work in and through Him (Acts 17:28; Romans 8:28; Philippians 4:13). In other words, love does not earn salvation; love flows from union with Christ. (1 Timothy 1:14)

Wedo not make void the law by faith; rather, we establish it (Romans 3:31) The law no longer condemns those in Christ (Romans 8:1) instead, as a rule of life, it is fulfilled in those who walk by the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4)

So: Christ alone saves; faith alone justifies; the justified never remain fruitless.The crowns are therefore cast at the feet of Jesus, for the glory is His alone (Revelation 4:10-11)

(Edited for clarity).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Why. not. then explain Rom 6:16 and then. I will DO. the same. ??

dan p
I do not need to explain it, that's the issue, it explains itself. No need for us to re-interpret.
 
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Abraham1st

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I will explain Romans 6:16 for us, it is directed at those who DO NOT KNOW, so it is for those of strife to argue over, but if you look at the next verse, it also is for those who it was DELIVERED unto to know.

So there it is for all, if it is debated, it is unknown, if it has been delivered, there is no debate over it.



Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.



But if we also want to know what serving or not serving sin is:




We through this hope ( belief) purify ourselves even as Christ is pure, in our hearts purified by faith, knowing that those who COMMIT SIN, transgress the law they are following/under.

But WE KNOW ( BELIEVE) that Christ came manifested to this world ( which the antichrist spirit does not confess and DENIES) to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS, and IN HIM IS NO SIN.

We ABIDE IN HIM, WE SIN NOT, those who sin ( WHOSOEVER TRANSGRESSES THE LAW) HAVE NOT SEEN HIM NEITHER KNOWN HIM.

They deceive the little children, not knowing that they who do righteousness are righteous, EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS.

HOSE WHO COMMIT SIN ARE OF THE DEVIL, this is the PURPOSE THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFSTED, to DESTROY THOSE WORKS OF THE DEVIL. ( WORKS of the LAW/WHOSOEVER TRANSGRESSES THE LAW COMMITING SIN.)

WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN, HIS SEED REMAINING IN HIM AND HE CANNOT SIN, because he is BORN OF GOD.

THIS MANIFESTS THE CHIULDREN OF GOD AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL, ( those of the devil being those who commit sin/transgressing the law.)

Those who DO NOT DO RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE NOT OF GOD, THOSE WHO DO NOT LOVE THEIR BROTHER ARE NOT OF GOD, THIS IS HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, THAT WE SHOLD LOVE ONE ANOTHER. ( only by belief in the Lord Jesus Christ manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS, AND IN HIM IS NO SIN/TO DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL.)



1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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If one is arguing against keeping God's laws (His version) its not being freed of sin, sadly its the opposite, why sin is so deceitful, one can think its okay to lie, its okay to place something above God, its okay to steal or break God's holy Sabbath, people have convinced themselves we do not need to keep God's laws and we are not a salve to sin, which in reality, it is the opposite. We all have to stand before Jesus at Judgement, and there is nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat1:21, which means no one would be breaking God's laws, but sadly many like their sins more than they love Jesus to bring them to Him and ask His help in overcoming- turning from walking in a new direction Pro28:13 John 3:19-21 Sadly people have convinced themselves we can come to Jesus and stay in our sins, in reality, that's the first step, we need to go from milk to whole food, continuing in that path, there remains no more sacrifice Heb10:26-30 We need a conversion in Christ walking a new path in life through Him. :heartpulse:
 
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Abraham1st

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If one is arguing against keeping God's laws (His version) its not being freed of sin, sadly its the opposite, why sin is so deceitful, one can think its okay to lie, its okay to place something above God, its okay to steal or break God's holy Sabbath, people have convinced themselves we do not need to keep God's laws and we are not a salve to sin, which in reality, it is the opposite. We all have to stand before Jesus at Judgement, and there is nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat1:21, which means no one would be breaking God's laws, but sadly many like their sins more than they love Jesus to bring them to Him and ask His help in overcoming- turning from walking in a new direction Pro28:13 John 3:19-21 Sadly people have convinced themselves we can come to Jesus and stay in our sins and that's Gods will, in reality, there remains no more sacrifice Heb10:26-30
Love works no ill to your neighbour so it is high time to awake out of sleep, ( sleep=law and no love, no faith, no Holy Spirit) with no whole armour of God on YET..




Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.





The law that is established is this one....



Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
 
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Abraham1st

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The law sadly is an example of a people breaking it so much the law and covenant was broken forever, but a new covenant came, it was not according to the one were the prophets taught the people falsely, and the priests, being false ones, but it is now in the heart, as it is hearts purified by faith, now they cant do what those in the law did all impure and filthy rags,



Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Love works no ill to your neighbour so it is high time to awake out of sleep, ( sleep=law and no love, no faith, no Holy Spirit) with no whole armour of God on YET..
John 14:15 “If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Sadly what you are teaching is to be without the Holy Spirit, to not love God and void faith Rom:3:31. There is not two Holy Spirits, there is One, the Holy Spirit wrote the Ten Commandments so not against His own Laws and convicts one (of sin) if they hear His voice by rebelling and breaking them Heb3:7-13, He resides with those who obey, not disobey.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

I understand this mindset can't be reasoned with, so I am going to just agree to disagree

Rom8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If one is fulfilling love they are keeping God's commandments and not harming God or man. Breaking them is not love, it is sin, rebellion and unbelief.
 
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Abraham1st

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John 14:15 “If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Sadly what you are teaching is to be without the Holy Spirit

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
This is to keep His commandment and also to receive the Holy Spirit as PROVEN BELOW, we see no example in the new testament of anyone receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit by keeping of commandments as you sadly insist without one credible back up SO FAR.



John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)




Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
 
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Abraham1st

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Rom8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
 
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Abraham1st

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I understand this mindset can't be reasoned with, so I am going to just agree to disagree
I understand that is the reason you wont stick around to show any example as I have shown multiple, of how the Sprit is RECEIVED, by BELIEF ALONE, by the commandments/works being BELIEVE IN, by the HEARING OF FAITH, by a witness of the Gentiles RECEIVING THE GIFT OF THE HOY GHOST AS PETER SPOKE.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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This is to keep His commandment and also to receive the Holy Spirit as PROVEN BELOW, we see no example in the new testament of anyone receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit by keeping of commandments as you sadly insist without one credible back up SO FAR.



John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)




Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
How do you believe but only part of what Jesus said and not all of it. Jesus said quoting from OT man is to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of GodMat4:4, not just pick the ones we like


Gal3 is not speaking of disobeying the Holy Spirit and the commandments of God. Taking Paul out of context comes with some serious consequences 2Peter3:16

I am not sticking around because its what Jesus said over this exact teaching.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (quoting from the Ten Commandments Exo20:1-17) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”


10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

Why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting from the same unit Mat5:19-30 and we will be held accountable for our teachings.

The Holy Spirit is not teaching anyone to break any of the Ten Commandments- the law of liberty that frees us from the bondage of sin James2:11-12 God's own Testimony Exo31:18 going away from we are warned


Isa8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
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Abraham1st

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Rom:3:31. There is not two Holy Spirits, there is One, the Holy Spirit wrote the Ten Commandments so not against His own Laws and convicts one (of sin) if they hear His voice by rebelling and breaking them Heb3:7-13, He resides with those who obey, not disobey.

Rom8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If one is fulfilling love they are keeping God's commandments and not harming God or man. Breaking them is not love, it is sin, rebellion and unbelief.
Editing wont help you, the One Holy Spirit that wrote the the commandments gave it on stone, now it is in fleshsy tables of the heart, obedience is by faith, this is belief in the obedience of Christ with the death of the cross.



Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.




One is keeping the commandment of love, to receive love, God to yourself, it is by belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.



John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
 
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Abraham1st

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How do you believe but only part of what Jesus said and not all of it. Jesus said quoting from OT man is to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of GodMat4:4, not just pick the ones we like


Gal3 is not speaking of obeying the Holy Spirit and the commandments of God. Taking Paul out of context comes with some serious consequences 2Peter3:16
So you have no answer to how we receive the Holy Ghost in return for the testimony given to how it was told and how it was done.


Galatians 3 is speaking of how the Holy Spirit is received, how Jesus said it would be, and how Peter demonstrated that to the Gentiles in front o the Jews.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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the One Holy Spirit that wrote the the commandments gave it on stone, now it is in fleshsy tables of the heart, obedience is by faith, this is belief in the obedience of Christ with the death of the cross.
Yes, same commandments, He now writes them in the heart for those who don;t rebel Heb8:10 2Cor3:3 - its about having a heart change and in doing so, one would not be stealing or worshipping others gods or breaking the least of these Mat5:19-30 as you seem to be indicating. Jesus came to change the inside, which the outside would automatically be changed. If our heart is change from anger to compassion, are we free to commit murder? No, that's not what Jesus taught at all, He said in doing so one would be in fear of sin and judgement. No one is keeping the spiritual aspect of the commandments by breaking the literal commandments. The spiritual is greater, not lessor. If one is breaking the literal commandments, its a clear indication the heart has not changed and one needs more time in prayer.
 
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Abraham1st

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Yes, same commandments, He now writes them in the heart for those who don;t rebel Heb8"10 2Cor3:3 - its about having a heart change and in doing so, one would not be stealing or worshipping others gods or breaking the least of these Mat5:19-30 as you seem to be indicating. Jesus came to change the inside, which the outside would automatically be changed. If our heart is change from anger to compassion, are we free to commit murder? No, that's not what Jesus taught at all. No one is keeping the spiritual aspect of the commandments by breaking the literal commandments. The spiritual is greater, not lessor. If one is breaking the literal commandments, its a clear indication the heart has not changed and one needs more time in prayer.
The same commandments were not of faith, now the commandment is of faith, which is belief of love, the love Jesus Christ had to us all so we have the same love for all.


1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
 
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Abraham1st

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breaking the least of these Mat5:19-30 as you seem to be indicating.
Breaking the least of these is what those in danger of hell fire do, but the little ones that BLEIEVE in Him are humbled, and the ones who cause offences rightly are warned not to break the least of the commandments or they go to hell fire and it is beer they cut off the hand that offends to avoid it rather than having two eyes to go to hell
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The same commandments were not of faith, now the commandment is of faith, which is belief of love, the love Jesus Christ had to us all so we have the same love for all.


1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
So in your view we can break these commandments and that's faith to you, doing the opposite of what Jesus taught is faith. Mat 15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat19:17-19 Mat5:19-30 etc

20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Guess we will all find out soon enough. James2:11-12 Rev11:18-19 Rev 22:14-15

Take care.
 
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Abraham1st

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No one is keeping the spiritual aspect of the commandments by breaking the literal commandments. The spiritual is greater, not lessor. If one is breaking the literal commandments, its a clear indication the heart has not changed and one needs more time in prayer.
The literal commandments as you out them, are the law not made for the righteous an but for the disobedient.

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The literal commandments as you out them, are the law not made for the righteous an but for the disobedient.

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

If you have your own righteousness and do not need God's Psa119:172 Psa56:1-2 they are probably not for you.

I have no righteousness, so I need Gods and He told us to keep them, so thats what I shall do through His Spirit John14:15-18 John15:10

It will all work itself out when He returns. Our decisions will be sealed Rev22:11 and He determines who enters His gates of heaven Rev22:14 and does not Rev22:15 Rom7:21-23 1John3:4
 
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