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DOES THE. LAW. of MOSES SAVE ??

Dan Perez

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# 1 BUT //. DE. is a CONJUNCATION

# 2. THERE ROSE UP //. EXANISTEMI. , is. a AORIST TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD. in. the PLURAL

# 3. CERTAIN //. TIS , is an. INDEFINATE PRONOUN , is. an. NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 4 OF // APO. , is a PREPOSTION

# 5 THE // HO. , is a DEFINAITE. ATCTILE in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 6. SECT // HAIRESIS , is. an. GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 7 OF THE // HO , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in the PLURAL

# 8. PHARISEES // PHANSAIOS , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 9 WHICH BELIEVED. //. PISTEUO. , is in. the PERFECT TENSE , in the ACTIVE VOICE , is a PARTICIPLE , in. the NONMINATIVE CASE ,

in. the PLURAL

# 10 SAYING // EGO , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , is. a PARTICIPLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 11 THAT //. HOTI. , is a CONJUNCATION

# 12. IT WAS NEEDED// DEI , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD , in. the SINGULAR

# 13. TO CIRCUNCISE. //. PENTEMNO. , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE ,

# 14. THEM // AUTOS. is. a PERSONAL POSSESSETIVE PRONOUN. , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 15. AND // TO , is a DISJUNATIVE PARTICLE

# 16 TO COMMAND // PARANGEGEL is. in the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE

# 17. TO KEEP // TEREO , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE

# 18 THE //. HO. is a DEFINITE ARTICLE. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 19. LAW // NOMOS. , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SIGULAR

# 20 OF MOSES // MOYSES. , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

And many believe in ACTS 2 :38. with its water Baptism , you can. excepy. Acts 15:5 , RIGHT

And men can be circumcision. so where does that leave women. ??

AND does your church have Priests and. ALTER. to have animal SACRIFICES. as it. is part of. The Law of Moses

dan p
 

Dan Perez

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If a person was to keep it perfectly, yes
AND does the written word say JUST. ONE kept the LAW , Perfectly. as ALL have come Short of the glory. of God

and am sure there are MORE !!

DAN P
 
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Adventist Dissident

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there are some things you are missing. 1. when they were talking about circumcision it is always talking the "enterance" requirement to the covenant, in order to receive the benefits/ blessings of the covenant , which was considered "salvation". It would be like asking the question what do I have to do to enter Costco. do I need my own Costco card or do I use the Lord's Costo card. If I use my own then why do I need the Lords? Salvation in this case does not mean going to heaven. it might include it but that is not what they are talking about.
 
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Dan Perez

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there are some things you are missing. 1. when they were talking about circumcision it is always talking the "enterance" requirement to the covenant, in order to receive the benefits/ blessings of the covenant , which was considered "salvation". It would be like asking the question what do I have to do to enter Costco. do I need my own Costco card or do I use the Lord's Costo card. If I use my own then why do I need the Lords? Salvation in this case does not mean going to heaven. it might include it but that is not what they are talking about.
And you explain. Gal 6 :15 and then. I will explain it then if you cannot , just let me know you cannot then I will explain. it. !!

dan p
 
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eleos1954

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# 1 BUT //. DE. is a CONJUNCATION

# 2. THERE ROSE UP //. EXANISTEMI. , is. a AORIST TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD. in. the PLURAL

# 3. CERTAIN //. TIS , is an. INDEFINATE PRONOUN , is. an. NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 4 OF // APO. , is a PREPOSTION

# 5 THE // HO. , is a DEFINAITE. ATCTILE in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 6. SECT // HAIRESIS , is. an. GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 7 OF THE // HO , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in the PLURAL

# 8. PHARISEES // PHANSAIOS , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 9 WHICH BELIEVED. //. PISTEUO. , is in. the PERFECT TENSE , in the ACTIVE VOICE , is a PARTICIPLE , in. the NONMINATIVE CASE ,

in. the PLURAL

# 10 SAYING // EGO , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , is. a PARTICIPLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 11 THAT //. HOTI. , is a CONJUNCATION

# 12. IT WAS NEEDED// DEI , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD , in. the SINGULAR

# 13. TO CIRCUNCISE. //. PENTEMNO. , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE ,

# 14. THEM // AUTOS. is. a PERSONAL POSSESSETIVE PRONOUN. , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 15. AND // TO , is a DISJUNATIVE PARTICLE

# 16 TO COMMAND // PARANGEGEL is. in the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE

# 17. TO KEEP // TEREO , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE

# 18 THE //. HO. is a DEFINITE ARTICLE. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 19. LAW // NOMOS. , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SIGULAR

# 20 OF MOSES // MOYSES. , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

And many believe in ACTS 2 :38. with its water Baptism , you can. excepy. Acts 15:5 , RIGHT

And men can be circumcision. so where does that leave women. ??

AND does your church have Priests and. ALTER. to have animal SACRIFICES. as it. is part of. The Law of Moses

dan p
The Ordinances and their ceremonies were nailed to the cross, no longer needed after the death of our savior ... He was the final and perfect sacrifice for all ... for all times. The earthly sanctuary system shows how salvation would occur in heaven through Jesus (it was an example) to help us understand.

Circumcision of the heart is a work of the Holy Spirit that occurs when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior.
We (believers) all get circumcised .... in the heart.
 
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d taylor

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if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
“For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off.
 
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Hentenza

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if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
“For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off.
Audience= Israel not the gentile church. Different covenant.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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there are some things you are missing. 1. when they were talking about circumcision it is always talking the "enterance" requirement to the covenant, in order to receive the benefits/ blessings of the covenant , which was considered "salvation". It would be like asking the question what do I have to do to enter Costco. do I need my own Costco card or do I use the Lord's Costo card. If I use my own then why do I need the Lords? Salvation in this case does not mean going to heaven. it might include it but that is not what they are talking about.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Ga 5:3–4)​

Circumcision is more than just an entry requirement. It represents an attempt to be justified by obedience to the law. And for Christians to do this means the have become estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

Today, we do not look at circumcision as the primary offending event. We may not even know what the offending event is. But we do see many who identify as Christians who "desire to be under the law" (Ga 4:21) and "attempt to be justified by law" (Ga 5:4). It is safe to assume that there was a primary offending event even if it wasn't circumcision per se. But right now, the identity of the offending event is not really important. What is important is the current state of estrangement from Christ and their fall from His grace. And the solution is within their grasp:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. (Ga 5:1)​
 
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Clare73

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If a person was to keep it perfectly, yes
No. . .salvation has never been by law keeping. . .since Araham, salvation has been by faith (Ge 15:5-6).

The law was not given to save, the law was given to reveal sin (Ro 3:20).
 
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Hawkins

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I am still optimistic about the fate of God's chosen people. Covenants are all about a subjective judgment from a fair and just God. Law is more about an objective judgment of one's past and one's behavior/action. Mosaic Law is put under the Mosaic Covenant. The main point is for God to demonstrate what Law could mean through His own chosen people. The Jews have a duty of demonstrate what God's Law could mean, such that later humans can have a better grasp on what God's Grace could mean. If you don't know what Law could mean, Grace which is relative to Law is ununderstandable to humans.

We don't know the legal details of the Mosaic Covenant. The core is that Mosaic Law is defined for the Jews to observe to their best (there is room here). The accuser of Mosaic Law is Moses (as Jesus put). Another accuser is Satan, he's not for the Jews and Mosaic Law. This is the core, however we don't know if there's other legal terms. If purely by this core, it says David may not survive as he's a adulterer and murderer. We however know that David shall be saved, the question is by what?

The bottonline is, everyone being saved is through Jesus, while all covenants being granted are through Jesus. David is saved through Jesus no doubt, how legally so remains the question. The Bible also says that the Jews will be saved after the gentiles (something to that effect). Possibly it's the same question unanswered (perhaps already answered but we have yet to be revealed what has been said).
 
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Abraham1st

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The Bible also says that the Jews will be saved after the gentiles (something to that effect). Possibly it's the same question unanswered (perhaps already answered but we have yet to be revealed what has been said).
This answer is not just for yourself, it is for all, even as this chapter of Romans 11 reveals it is for all.

Focus on grace, it is the theme beginning here in Romans 11:5, and IF it is no more of works, it is entirely Gods calling, and what is of works, (remains in it.) is not of grace, is not God's calling.

ISRAEL HAD NOT OBTAINED WHAT ISRAEL SEEKS FOR, but the ELECTION has OBTAINED it, the rest where blinded, eyes that see not and ears that hear not/ I was FOUND OF THEM THAT SOUGHT ME NOT; I was MADE MANIFEST UNTO THEM THAT ASKED NOT AFTER ME. Romans 11:7-8. 10:20.)

Everyone who does not have their eyes and ears opened by God, does not see, and are blinded. (ELECTION- THE EYES AND EARS OPENED. THEIR SOUND WENT INTO ALL THE EARTH, THEIR WORDS UNTO THE END OF THE EARTH. Romans 10:18)

Romans 10 begins with the same consideration, of the desire for Israel to be saved. They have record, that they have a zeal of God, BUT not ACCORDING to KNOWLEDGE, (NOT BY BELIEF.) and Israel BEING IGNORANT of God's righteousness, (SUBMITTING themselves unto the righteousness of God.) Christ is the END of the LAW to EVERY ONE that BELIEVES.

(EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IS IN THE LAW/IF IT BE BY GRACE, THEN IT IS NO MORE WORKS....BOASTING is EXCLUDED, by the law of FAITH, BOASTING IS BY THE LAW OF WORKS, JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW, ONE GOD WHO JUSTIFIES ALL THROUGH FAITH. BY the LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN, BY HIS GRACE is REDEMPTION/FREE JUSTIFICATION that is in Christ Jesus/Israel by WORKS of the LAW have a zeal of God but NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. Romans 3:20-30. 10:1-4. 5:1. Galatians 2:16.)




Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the KNOWLEDGE of sin.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall JUSTIFY the circumcision BY FAITH, and uncircumcision THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to KNOWLEDGE.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, HAVE NOT SUBMITTED THEMSELVES unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one THAT BELIEVETH.

Romans 10:18 But I say, HAVE THEY NOT HEARD? Yes verily, THEIR SOUND WENT INTO ALL THE EARTH, and THEIR WORDS UNTO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.

Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I WAS FOUND OF THEM THAT SOUGHT ME NOT; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it NO MORE of WORKS: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? ISRAEL HATH NOT OBTAINED that WHICH HE SEEKETH FOR; but THE ELECTION HATH OBTAINED IT, and THE REST were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, EYES THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE, and EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR;) UNTO THIS DAY.




Israel had not obtained, the election had obtained, Apostle Paul is the beginning of the election obtaining, see the words and strength of the testimony, of all Paul had done, and how Paul is that example of the Lord God to the world, for election, grace, to OBTAIN MERCY, and also that Jesus Christ showed this FORTH, to THEM WHICH AFTER THE FIRST LONGSUFFERING MINISTER and WITNESS, sent unto the PEOPLE, and to the Gentiles, to OPEN THEIR EYES, and TURN THEM from DARKNESS to LIGHT, to RECEIVE forgiveness of sins, inheritance among them which are sanctified by FAITH that is in HIM, BELIEVING ON CHRIST JESUS TO LIFE EVERLASTING.

The Word of God took EFFECT, they are not all Israel which be of Israel, or all children because they are the seed of Abraham, in Isaac SHALL THY SEED, be called. So ALL ISRAEL shall be SAVED, the DELIVERER came out of Sion to TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS, from Jacob. (BLINDNESS ON ISRAEL, EYES THAT DO NOT SEE, and TURNING THEM FROM DARKNESS to LIGHT, to OPEN THEIR EYES/ TURNING AWAY ungodliness from Jaccob.)




Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. All Israel, ( not all Israel which be of Israel.)


Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it IGNORANTLY IN UNBELIEF.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that IN ME FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for A PATTERN TO THEM which should HEREAFTER BELIEVE ON HIM TO LIFE EVERLASTING.




God declared HE WILL HAVE MERCY ON HER THAT HAD NOT OBTAINED MERCY, saying to them which were not His people, THOU ART MY PEOPLE, and they say, THOU ART MY GOD.

Unto those which BELIEVE He is precious, but unto the disobedient, (THOSE WHICH DO NOT BELIEVE.) the builders disallowed, a stone of stumbling and rock of offence, EVEN TO THEM WHICH STUMBLE AT THE WORD, being disobedient, (FAITHLESS.) as APPOINTED, (BLINDNESS.) but (the faith) are a CHOSEN generation, a holy NATION, to show praises of Him who has CALLED you OUT OF DARKNESS, into HIs MARVELLOUS LIGHT. In time past WERE NOT A PEOPLE, but NOW are the people of God, which HAD NOT OBTAINED MERCY, but NOW have OBTAINED.





Hosea 2:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the Lord, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.




The stumbling, the eyes darkened that they may not see, is it a fall, it is a fall so that salvation is come to the Gentiles, the fall of them being the riches of the world, the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles.

Broken off to make grafting in, because of UNBELIEF they were broken off, and the Gentiles stand by FAITH, being high minded and not fearing, the Gentiles are to take heed they too will not be spared. (not some Gentiles but all now.) If the world of Gentiles did not continue in the Lords goodness, (in faith) they also SHALL BE CUT OFF. If Israel after this (which is the world with no faith now/the end.) they SHALL BE GRAFFED IN, God is ABLE to graft them in again. (this has been done now.)




Romans 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?


Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.



Here is the mystery, blindness happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles had come in. That has come in, and THIS IS HIS COVENANT UNTO THEM, to take away their sins. ( FAITH.)

Israel is beloved for the Election sake, but were enemies for the Gospels sake, in the time past Israel did not believe, so the Gentiles could believe, that through the SAME MERCY, they MAY OBTAIN. (through faith, when the Gentiles are come to a full, this is God CONCLUDING THEM ALL IN UNBELIEF, that He MIGHT HAVE MERCY UPON ALL.)

How UNSEARCHABLE are God's judgements, His ways past finding out. For of the Lord and through Him, and to Him, are ALL THINGS, to whom be glory for ever. Amen. (when the wicked spring as the grass, when all the workers of iniquity/ungodliness/faithlessness flourish, it is that they/the time that they shall be DESTROYED FOR EVER. But the Lord is MOST HIGH FOR EVERMORE.)




Psalm 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
8 But thou, Lord, art most high for evermore.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
 
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