Faith/Works

[slaney3]

Paul and James on Justification

The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.

While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.

Be doers of the word and not hearers only who deceive themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man viewing his natural face in a mirror.
James 1:22-23

One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it’s part of our natural human tendency.

So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.

If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.

In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.

We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?

No works ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah: “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment” (v. 64:6).

However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.

 

[Delvianna]

Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

That's not what scripture says, that's your interpretation trying to fix the issue, but I can see where you're getting it from because you say...

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works)

The fruits of the spirit wouldn't classify as works.
Galatians 5:22-23: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

How is love in itself a "work"? I can show love by works, but love in and of itself isn't a work. A fruit grows, this is why the analogy was used and why we can know them by their fruit. If you see someone producing love, patience, or kindness, you can say that they are displaying the fruit of the spirit. So James's point of "“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." Is literally the display of what you are producing. This is why you have the verse:

Luke 6:45: "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."

So the concept is the same. If you are saved, you will produce good fruit (the list from Galatians) and it will be shown via your works. It is PROOF of your salvation. Not that the works save you (displaying the fruit of the spirit by actions), but you are saved already and the works you do prove you are saved. You can have faith that doesn't save (faith that just believes Jesus is God, just like the demons and angels) or you can have faith that DOES save and that is shown by proof in your actions and how you conduct yourself. Paul also argued this:

Romans 6:1-4: "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

How can you live a "new" life if you're still doing the same things you did in your old life? Still living in sin?

Matthew 7:18: "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit."

So someone who is living in sin, cannot bear (produce) good fruit of the spirit. Sin corrupts your heart and it corrupts your mind. This is not a law argument because otherwise you would be saying that we don't have to uphold any of Gods rules and I can just murder, steal, beat people and it's totally fine. Jesus after every person he healed, told to go and sin no more. It matters... why? Because it matters for salvation AND protection. So this isn't an argument of requiring to follow the law as salvation, it's an argument that if you are truly saved you will WANT to follow the law (the moral law 10 commandments, not the Jewish law of a million rules). The bible is so clear on sin, it's everywhere. Here are some other verses that talk about it.

1 John 3:6

• "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

1 John 5:18

• "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them."

Psalm 119:11

• "I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you."

Romans 6:12-14

• "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."

James 4:17

• "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them."

Then There are Parables:

The Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant (Matthew 18:21-35)
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Builders (Matthew 7:24-27)
The Parable of the Rich Fool (Luke 12:16-21)

 

[slaney3]

That's not what scripture says, that's your interpretation trying to fix the issue, but I can see where you're getting it from because you say...


The fruits of the spirit wouldn't classify as works.
Galatians 5:22-23: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

How is love in itself a "work"? I can show love by works, but love in and of itself isn't a work. A fruit grows, this is why the analogy was used and why we can know them by their fruit. If you see someone producing love, patience, or kindness, you can say that they are displaying the fruit of the spirit. So James's point of "“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." Is literally the display of what you are producing. This is why you have the verse:

Luke 6:45: "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."

So the concept is the same. If you are saved, you will produce good fruit (the list from Galatians) and it will be shown via your works. It is PROOF of your salvation. Not that the works save you (displaying the fruit of the spirit by actions), but you are saved already and the works you do prove you are saved. You can have faith that doesn't save (faith that just believes Jesus is God, just like the demons and angels) or you can have faith that DOES save and that is shown by proof in your actions and how you conduct yourself. Paul also argued this:

Romans 6:1-4: "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

How can you live a "new" life if you're still doing the same things you did in your old life? Still living in sin?

Matthew 7:18: "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit."

So someone who is living in sin, cannot bear (produce) good fruit of the spirit. Sin corrupts your heart and it corrupts your mind. This is not a law argument because otherwise you would be saying that we don't have to uphold any of Gods rules and I can just murder, steal, beat people and it's totally fine. Jesus after every person he healed, told to go and sin no more. It matters... why? Because it matters for salvation AND protection. So this isn't an argument of requiring to follow the law as salvation, it's an argument that if you are truly saved you will WANT to follow the law (the moral law 10 commandments, not the Jewish law of a million rules). The bible is so clear on sin, it's everywhere. Here are some other verses that talk about it.

1 John 3:6

• "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

1 John 5:18

• "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them."

Psalm 119:11

• "I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you."

Romans 6:12-14

• "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."

James 4:17

• "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them."

Then There are Parables:

The Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant (Matthew 18:21-35)
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Builders (Matthew 7:24-27)
The Parable of the Rich Fool (Luke 12:16-21)

In what way are you not a sinner today?

 

[Delvianna]

In what way are you not a sinner today?

As I said, living in sin ("So someone who is living in sin...."). This isn't a case of messing up and asking for forgiveness, this is a case of continual, habitual sin. It's the difference between having impure thoughts, asking for forgiveness and trying not to have those thoughts again, vs someone who has friends with benefits relationship outside marriage and doesn't care to change.

Hebrews 10:26-27

• “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

VS

1 John 2:1-2

• “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Salvation is a change of heart against sin. It's striving to live in righteousness but knowing that if we stumble, God will forgive us. That is the entire point of the holy spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts us and helps us be better and do better.

John 16:8-11

• “When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.”

Galatians 5:16-18

• “So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”

Romans 8:5-6, 9

• “Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace… You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.”

Titus 2:11-12

• “For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.”

 

[Soyeong]

Paul and James on Justification

The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.

While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.


One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it’s part of our natural human tendency.

So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.

If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.

In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.

We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?

No works ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah: “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment” (v. 64:6).

However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.

What good is justification in the eyes of man but not God and why is that relevant?

Righteousness is not earned as the result of our works, but rather it is embodied through our works. The one and only way for someone to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means for someone to be righteous is for them to be a doer of righteous works, so it would be contradictory for someone to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. In 1 John 3:4-7, everyone who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law is righteous even as they are righteous. Christ embodied the righteousness of God by living in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we have the gift of getting to do by the gift of righteousness.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so the has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works in obedience to God's law has nothing to do with trying to contribute anything towards earning our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation.

In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God speaking, but rather it is the people hyperbolically complaining about God not coming down and making His presence known. The reality is that is not a commander of filthy rags but rather the righteous deeds of the saints are liken fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).

 

[slaney3]

As I said, living in sin ("So someone who is living in sin...."). This isn't a case of messing up and asking for forgiveness, this is a case of continual, habitual sin. It's the difference between having impure thoughts, asking for forgiveness and trying not to have those thoughts again, vs someone who has friends with benefits relationship outside marriage and doesn't care to change.

Hebrews 10:26-27

• “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

VS

1 John 2:1-2

• “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Salvation is a change of heart against sin. It's striving to live in righteousness but knowing that if we stumble, God will forgive us. That is the entire point of the holy spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts us and helps us be better and do better.

John 16:8-11

• “When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.”

Galatians 5:16-18

• “So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”

Romans 8:5-6, 9

• “Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace… You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.”

Titus 2:11-12

• “For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.”

You have listed Romans 8:5-6. The point is it makes no difference how much we sin less as long as we set our mind on the things of the spirit. And the fruit of the spirit is love, peace joy, kindness, goodness, patience, and forbearance (Matthew etc.) But we must utilize the cross in which he covered once and for all (John 1:29) after we've acknowledged ourselves as sinners. However, we must bear fruit in accordance with our repentance, but that never means to work the OT law. Faith works through love to follow him period (Galatians 5:6).

So on Hebrews 10:26-27 - it may often say something like that in the Bible, but if you look closer up top or below them, it'll usually begin to direct our faith by spurring each other on toward love and good deeds (Hebrews 10:24-25). But our passion must not be driven towards sin or habitual sin; instead, it must be led by Christ and to trust what He did to overcome them all. So we must stir up our passion against the lust of world by desiring the things of God without worrying about falling too short of OT sins.

Be not stuck on those verses that confuse people into circumcision or uncircumcision (regarding law) but expand your reading around them, including others that explain its meaning.

Hope I could be of help.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

God is a Judge. And if anyone thinks they will pass through the Judge to Heaven based on anything other than the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, or they add anything to it, they will go to hell.

Christ alone, by grace alone, by faith alone

 

[Soyeong]

God is a Judge. And if anyone thinks they will pass through the Judge to Heaven based on anything other than the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, or they add anything to it, they will go to hell.

Christ alone, by grace alone, by faith alone

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20).

 

[tdidymas]

Paul and James on Justification

The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.

While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.


One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it’s part of our natural human tendency.

So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.

If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.

In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.

We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?

No works ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah: “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment” (v. 64:6).

However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.

One of the problems with misunderstanding the difference between Paul and James is the assumption that they are talking about the same kind of faith. Certainly both Paul and James speak of the same faith in various contexts. But the context of how they are using the term determines the meaning of their usage. Example:

Compare these two statements:
Rom. 3:28 "We maintain that a man is justified by faith, apart from the works of the law."
Jam. 2:24 "You can see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

On the surface, these two statements (out of context) appear to be contradictory, if you assume that their contextual usage of the word "faith" is the same. But it's not. Consider the audience: Paul is writing to Roman gentiles, trying to encourage their faith in Christ, because of certain Judaizers who were insisting that salvation was by faith plus works of the law. Whereas James was writing to (mainly) Jews who were being influenced by Gnostic heretics who claimed that their sins would not be judged. James' point was that works of love was the deciding factor that determined if a person's faith was genuine.

So then, in Rom. 3:28, Paul's usage of "faith" meant a kind of faith wherein a person paid attention to Christ's commands, warnings, and advice. But Jam. 2:24 usage was a kind of "faith" that was a mere profession, and had no repentance from sin involved. These different usages of "faith" is often misunderstood, and is one of the dividers of denominations. To understand it clearly, it must be read in context.

In conclusion, the true Christian faith is that Jesus paid it all, and nothing is to be added to complete salvation; but it doesn't end there. One is to believe that God is healing the soul, that Jesus is the deliverer from sin. Therefore, one is to assume the indwelling Holy Spirit is giving one the power to overcome sinful habits and temptations - "this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith." So repentance and righteous living becomes not only possible, but certain, since God promises it.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20).

Good works don't lead to Salvation.

The only evedince of Salvation is the Holy Spirit who produces good fruit in us. By His work in us we resemble Christ as Christians more and more.

 

[Lukaris]

I believe what Paul preaches in Colossians 1:1-29 especially verses 10 through 24 is a clear example that James & Paul saw faith & works the same way ( which can be confirmed in Ephesians 2:8-10).

 

[Delvianna]

So I would like to sum up because there are a lot of great comments in this thread... Jesus is the narrow gate, and through him we are saved. The Holy Spirit helps us stay on the narrow path as we continually abide in Christ, and live out righteous lives that glorify the Father. But the essence and the point of the entire bible is to have a relationship with Christ. A relationship means, being allowed to be corrected, you call him Lord but did you MAKE him Lord over your life? How can the clay say to the Potter what are you doing? (Isaiah 45:9) Faith is a verb, which is followed by action.

You can read the bible, you can study the bible, but if you don't walk it out with a relationship with Christ who guides, teaches, directs and corrects ("As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent." Revelation 3:19), then Matthew 7:22 might apply, and it will to a LOT of people.

 

[Lukaris]

I believe much of what you are saying is in line with what the Lord tells us to abide in Him especially in John 15:1-10. Probably the basic way is when we give alms & pray for ourselves and others ( Matthew 6:1-14 etc.). If a person is poor or with physical disability, then solely prayer ( I would think).


( reply to post #11, for some reason reply prompt didn’t link our posts).

 

[Soyeong]

Good works don't lead to Salvation.

The only evedince of Salvation is the Holy Spirit who produces good fruit in us. By His work in us we resemble Christ as Christians more and more.

I did not claim that good works lead to salvation. In Titus 2:14, it doesn’t say either that we are required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result or that we are required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation.

 

[Delvianna]

I believe much of what you are saying is in line with what the Lord tells us to abide in Him especially in John 15:1-10. Probably the basic way is when we give alms & pray for ourselves and others ( Matthew 6:1-14 etc.). If a person is poor or with physical disability, then solely prayer ( I would think).


( reply to post #11, for some reason reply prompt didn’t link our posts).

I'd also like to add, spreading the gospel too and guiding others to righteousness.

Edit: To also add as far as a relationship goes, prayer, awaiting his answer and testing the spirits to make sure it was from God and then applying what God said. I am a firm believer than you can sit on a remote island, not have a bible and walk off that island in 20 years being a bible scholar. Because what matters most, is the relationship you have with Christ.

 

[Delvianna]

You have listed Romans 8:5-6. The point is it makes no difference how much we sin less as long as we set our mind on the things of the spirit. And the fruit of the spirit is love, peace joy, kindness, goodness, patience, and forbearance (Matthew etc.) But we must utilize the cross in which he covered once and for all (John 1:29) after we've acknowledged ourselves as sinners. However, we must bear fruit in accordance with our repentance, but that never means to work the OT law. Faith works through love to follow him period (Galatians 5:6).

So on Hebrews 10:26-27 - it may often say something like that in the Bible, but if you look closer up top or below them, it'll usually begin to direct our faith by spurring each other on toward love and good deeds (Hebrews 10:24-25). But our passion must not be driven towards sin or habitual sin; instead, it must be led by Christ and to trust what He did to overcome them all. So we must stir up our passion against the lust of world by desiring the things of God without worrying about falling too short of OT sins.

Be not stuck on those verses that confuse people into circumcision or uncircumcision (regarding law) but expand your reading around them, including others that explain its meaning.

Hope I could be of help.

I dont know why but I can see your response to me on my phone and not my computer. I cant reply to you on my phone because due to ad popups my keyboard disappears constantly and its infuriating. So I'm going to leave this here for now, and when I can get to my computer, I'll edit this comment with my reply to you.

Edit: Okay, let me ask you something. If you are married and you create a relationship with someone else at the same time, what does that make you? An adulterer. If you are "without worrying about falling too short of OT sins", then there is no point in stopping if your argument is "makes no difference how much we sin less" because I could read the bible and literally continually commit adultery. But what does the bible say?
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. If you continually are an adulterer, that keeps you in that status. While you are having sex with some other person, you are not suddenly NOT an adulterer just because you claim the name of Jesus and the cross. That's cognitive dissonance, the two views are apposing and cannot be true at the same time.

I do agree by reading around verses too to get the bigger idea which is why I love Romans, James, 1 John, 1 Peter, 1 Corinthians, and Hebrews because their concepts and what they argue back up each other. I also added Jesus's parables because they too add to the whole point. But you also cannot disregard certain verses that contradict your point. You're essentially arguing that sinning is fine, because Jesus atoned for it, and that contradicts Romans.

What is sin?
1 John 3:4:
"Sin is the transgression of the law"

In essence, the point of the law is to show us how dirty we are. How much we've transgressed against Gods rules and now only how much we need his forgiveness for what we've done, but how much we need his help to stop breaking his rules. Jesus never came to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Which means it still applies and I mean the moral law (don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal) not the Jewish law which includes circumcision which was requirements for Jews only to set them apart.

Also, how may times did Jesus say repent? How many times did God call people back to repentance? What does it say in revelation that the wicked people don't do during the trib? Repent. What is repentance? Summed up in this verse:

2 Chronicles 7:14

• “If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”

You have to apply the entire book and teachings because your argument right now disregards so much scripture that is important. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have been taught.