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The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

Hentenza

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What is the curse of the law that Paul is speaking about

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Deut 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”


The curse is not continuing in obedience to God's commandments, which He relates as worshipping others gods. Paul speaks of this as well in Rom6:16

Jesus by His blood took the curse for us- the wages of sin is death, but does that mean we can now worship other gods, vain His holy name, bow to false images, break His holy Sabbath day. If we can continue in sin, Jesus needed not to die. Why Paul tells us to die of sin, not live in it. Those who do remains no more sacrifice Heb 10:26-30

Paul asks why those in Christ would want to continue in sin any longer Rom6:2 look what it did to Jesus at the Cross, why would anyone who loves Jesus want to continue down that path. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John5:3

The blessings and curses are still there, we still can choose who we serve, which is reflected by who we obey Rom6:16

Like Joshua said:

Jos 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of [a]the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

When we are not keeping the first 4 commandments of God's Testimony by default we are worshipping another god, why Jesus said in vain they worship Me, laying aside the commandments of God- quoting from the Ten Mark7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14


Our decisions will determine which path we are on and what we hear at His Second Coming. We still have choices between blessing and curses.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

What law?


15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

The whole Bible is about the testimony of God through His prophets and disciples. But yet when it comes to God's own personally written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 few believe.

Jesus is God.

John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Why we see the ark of the covenant which holds God's Testimony revealed at the last trumpet before He returns Rev 11:18-19 Rev 15:5
This is nonsense. Here are the verses.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The Greek word for curse is:
Strong’s Definitions
κατάρα katára, kat-ar'-ah; from G2596(intensive) and G685; imprecation, execration:—curse(-d, ing).

Imprecation means:
  1. noun
    the act of calling down a curse that invokes evil (and usually serves as an insult)
    “he suffered the imprecations of the mob”
    synonyms:malediction
    see more
  2. noun
    a slanderous accusation

Execration means:
  1. noun
    hate coupled with disgust
    synonyms:abhorrence, abomination, detestation, loathing, odium
    see more
  2. noun
    an appeal to some supernatural power to inflict evil on someone or some group
    synonyms:condemnation, curse
    see more
  3. noun
    the object of cursing or detestation; that which is execrated

The is quite the strong word that Paul uses here. Not to mention the fact that Paul even tells us that Christ REDEEMED the Christian from the curse of the law. As I asked others with no response yet, why would Jesus have to redeem the Christian from the curse of the law only to make the law necessary in the life of the Christian? Do you really not see the nonsense conclusion of your argument?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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This is nonsense. Here are the verses.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The Greek word for curse is:
Strong’s Definitions
κατάρα katára, kat-ar'-ah; from G2596(intensive) and G685; imprecation, execration:—curse(-d, ing).

Imprecation means:
  1. noun
    the act of calling down a curse that invokes evil (and usually serves as an insult)
    “he suffered the imprecations of the mob”
    synonyms:malediction
    see more
  2. noun
    a slanderous accusation

Execration means:
  1. noun
    hate coupled with disgust
    synonyms:abhorrence, abomination, detestation, loathing, odium
    see more
  2. noun
    an appeal to some supernatural power to inflict evil on someone or some group
    synonyms:condemnation, curse
    see more
  3. noun
    the object of cursing or detestation; that which is execrated

The is quite the strong word that Paul uses here. Not to mention the fact that Paul even tells us that Christ REDEEMED the Christian from the curse of the law. As I asked others with no response yet, why would Jesus have to redeem the Christian from the curse of the law only to make the law necessary in the life of the Christian? Do you really not see the nonsense conclusion of your argument?
Paul was repeating Old Testament, not writing something new. It is written means he was quoting from OT Scripture which the reference was provided. The book of the law he was referencing is what was beside the ark of the covenant Deut 31:24-26 what was inside the ark is the Ten Commandments, God's Testimony Exo40:20 Paul references these as holy, just and good Rom 7:12 and no one who is unholy will see God Hebrews 12:14

However, one came to the conclusion that faith means not doing what God asks is beyond me. Obedience to God is bad disobedience is good, sounds like similar doctrine that deceived out first parents. Definitely not something that comes from our Bibles, nor what Paul taught Rom 3:31 1Cor7:19. In the Bible that is called sin, rebellion, and unbelief. Heb 3:7-19 which sadly leaves someone on the wrong path Heb 10:26-30 1John2:3-4 Rev22:14-15 Mat7:21-23
 
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Hentenza

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Paul was repeating Old Testament, not writing something new. It is written means he was quoting from OT Scripture which the reference was provided.
You can justify your incorrect argument to yourself but sticking your head in the sand does not charge the facts.
However, one came to the conclusion that faith means not doing what God asks is beyond me. Obedience to God is bad disobedience is good, sounds like similar doctrine that deceived out first parents. Definitely not something that comes from our Bibles, nor what Paul taught Rom 3:31 1Cor7:19. In the Bible that is called sin, rebellion, and unbelief. Heb 3:7-19 which sadly leaves someone on the wrong path Heb 10:26-30
The Strawman continues.
 
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Clare73

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So, here we go. You agree with those who say that our justification is only declared but you disagree with those who say that said declaration /forgiveness of sin would be sufficient; sin must be and will be overcome in the regenerate in your view.
You omit the work of the Holy Spirit in the born again which gives them a new disposition and transforms them.

Where no such work is taking place, we have no evidence of the new birth.
And yet, like them and most of us, you also believe that no one will achieve perfect sinlessness in this life. True? So, do you have a line-or some guidelines- for yourself or others located somewhere between wanton egregious sin and lighter, far less ugly sins that might demarcate a distinction between a true believer/the elect and the reprobate?
It's a matter of the heart (disposition), obedience (believer) or indifference (non-believer).

You are wasting your time on the indifferent.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You can justify your incorrect argument to yourself but sticking your head in the sand does not charge the facts.

The Strawman continues.
So your claim Paul was not quoting OT? Can you please post what Paul was quoting then, if not what I provided.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.

The curse is those who do not abide in the things written in the Book to do them. Why the Book was set besides the ark of the covenant as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 for disobedience to God and His commandments that was placed inside the ark Exo 40:20- God's own written and spoken Testimony . Exo 31:18

The curse was death and shown by the Scripture I posted in the context Deut 30:18

By the Blood of Jesus He took that curse for us, but not everyone accepts His free gift because they love their sins, more than they love Jesus to bring them to Him and help one to forsake their sins (turn from) Pro 28:13 1 John1:9 and walk a new life with Christ abiding in Him, keeping His commandments through love and faith and His power John 14:15-18 John 15:10 not different ones, the same ones 1John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Turns out we are also supposed to "Love GOD with all our heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22.
And we do but not as part of the Jewish law but as the commandment given by Jesus.
A distinction without a difference

Each time it is quoted in the NT - it is directly from the OT
There is a difference.
Nope. IT is a direct quote of the OT
And the two commandments summarize the whole law
Jesus said they are the firm foundation of it, not the death of it.
He says they form the foundation of both scripture and Law.

so no longer the law but the Spirit.
The Spirit is the author of the Law.

So it is direct quotes from the OT that we see repeatedly in the NT.


James 2:
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Each command is evaluated and obligatory separately and as a whole

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

Do you honestly think that Paul is promoting the law even after calling it weak and ineffective?
Paul says it is because of sinful flesh that the law is weak in Rom 8.

In Rom 7 "The LAW is holy just and good"

In Rom 8 only the lost are at war with the Law of God as Paul says.

Apart from the Gospel God's Law can only condemn. But under the New Cov of Jer 31:31-34 quoted verbatim for New Testament saints in Heb 8 that same Law is written on the heart under that same Jer 31 New Covenant.

In fact "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" as we see in Gal 3. It is the "one and only Gospel" according to Gal 1:6-9
 
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Hentenza

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So your claim Paul was not quoting OT? Can you please post what Paul was quoting then, if not what I provided.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.
Paul was indeed quoting portions of the OT and he used these quotes to make the point. Again, if Paul was defending the law by quoting the OT then why did Jesus redeemed the Christian from the curse of the law? If Christ redeemed us from the curse if the law by becoming a curse Himself (as the OT states) then why should the Christian go back to the curse if the law?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Paul was indeed quoting portions of the OT and he used these quotes to make the point. Again, if Paul was defending the law by quoting the OT then why did Jesus redeemed the Christian from the curse of the law? If Christ redeemed us from the curse if the law by becoming a curse Himself (as the OT states) then why should the Christian go back to the curse if the law?
By the Blood of Jesus He took that curse for us, but not everyone accepts His free gift because they love their sins John 3:19-21, more than they love Jesus to bring them to Him and help one to forsake their sins (turn from) Pro28:13 1John1:9 and walk a new life with in Christ abiding in Him, keeping His commandments through love and faith and His power John 14:15-18 Joh 15:10 not different ones, the same ones 1John2:6 1Peter 2:21-22 continuing in sin there remains no more sacrifice Heb 10:26-30
 
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fhansen

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This is nonsense. Here are the verses.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The Greek word for curse is:
Strong’s Definitions
κατάρα katára, kat-ar'-ah; from G2596(intensive) and G685; imprecation, execration:—curse(-d, ing).

Imprecation means:
  1. noun
    the act of calling down a curse that invokes evil (and usually serves as an insult)
    “he suffered the imprecations of the mob”
    synonyms:malediction
    see more
  2. noun
    a slanderous accusation

Execration means:
  1. noun
    hate coupled with disgust
    synonyms:abhorrence, abomination, detestation, loathing, odium
    see more
  2. noun
    an appeal to some supernatural power to inflict evil on someone or some group
    synonyms:condemnation, curse
    see more
  3. noun
    the object of cursing or detestation; that which is execrated

The is quite the strong word that Paul uses here. Not to mention the fact that Paul even tells us that Christ REDEEMED the Christian from the curse of the law. As I asked others with no response yet, why would Jesus have to redeem the Christian from the curse of the law only to make the law necessary in the life of the Christian? Do you really not see the nonsense conclusion of your argument?
The curse of the Law is that it can only bring about condemnation and death rather than the righteouness that it correctly identifies and testifies to. This is so because man lacks the Holy Spirit, union with God, until reconciled with Him, "...so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Gal 3:14

So the question one must ask is, does the new covenant do away with the need for man to be righteous? Since the law says, "Do not kill", does this mean that believers are now free to kill without repercussions since they're no longer under the law? Some Sola Fide adherents actually answer "yes" since that's a sort of logical conclusion drawn from the doctrine. But the answer is given:

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:12-14

Being no longer under the law does not mean that we're free from its righteous requirements; it only means that we meet those requirements another way, the right way, by the Spirit which gives life and not by the Letter which kills. That's to be under grace, to have and to live the life of God.
 
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fhansen

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You omit the work of the Holy Spirit in the born again which gives them a new disposition and transforms them.

Where no such work is taking place, we have no evidence of the new birth.
No...that was the point, in fact: "sin must be and will be overcome in the regenerate in your view". We both agree that sin is is only overcome by the power of the Spirit. Our difference is in whether a person, now awakened and made alive by God, can walk back away from Him, can return to the flesh, can "die" again.
It's a matter of the heart (disposition), obedience (believer) or indifference (non-believer).

You are wasting your time on the indifferent.
We all start out indifferent, There'd be no reason to preach the word at all if God just intends to regenerate some without appealing to and convincing them first of their need to be, um,,,different. Either way, we know His will:

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Pet 3:9
 
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Hentenza

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BobRyan said:
Turns out we are also supposed to "Love GOD with all our heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22.

A distinction without a difference
A huge difference. If the law is still required then Jesus sacrifice was for nothing.
Each time it is quoted in the NT - it is directly from the OT

Nope. IT is a direct quote of the OT
Which in no way makes it required for the gentiles church. Once again the law was never given to the gentiles. If you disagree then post the verse that the gentiles received the law.
Jesus said they are the firm foundation of it, not the death of it.
He says they form the foundation of both scripture and Law.
Jesus died to fulfill it, to complete it. It is done.
The Spirit is the author of the Law.
The Spirit is the third person of the Trinity but, while present at times in the OT, it is in the NT where there scriptures give Him the credit for guiding the Christian. Jesus is the alpha and the omega and does the bitting if the Father. The OT is Christological and His presence and prophesies permeate the OT. Jesus is the author of the law and is able to do with it as He wishes. Jesus fulfiiled, completed, the law. The law is not commanded of the gentiles church. Period.
So it is direct quotes from the OT that we see repeatedly in the NT.
And?
James 2:
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Each command is evaluated and obligatory separately and as a whole
And all summarized in Jesus two commandments given to the gentile church. At no time in scripture was the Mosaic law given to the gentiles. Never.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.


Paul says it is because of sinful flesh that the law is weak in Rom 8.
Where? Show me the verse in Romans 8 that teaches that.
In Rom 7 "The LAW is holy just and good"
And weak and ineffective in Rom. 8. Go figure. Paul is confused according to you.
In Rom 8 only the lost are at war with the Law of God as Paul says.

Apart from the Gospel God's Law can only condemn. But under the New Cov of Jer 31:31-34 quoted verbatim for New Testament saints in Heb 8 that same Law is written on the heart under that same Jer 31 New Covenant.
Once again, the new covenant depicted in Jeremiah and in Hebrews are given to the House of Israel. This is plainly written. Are you arguing that the House of Israel is the same as the gentile church?
In fact "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" as we see in Gal 3. It is the "one and only Gospel" according to Gal 1:6-9
And Abraham was saved by faith apart from works. Nothing Abraham did saved Him beside just having Faith.
 
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Hentenza

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The curse of the Law is that it can only bring about condemnation and death rather than the righteouness that it correctly identifies and testifies to. This is so because man lacks the Holy Spirit, union with God, until reconciled with Him, "...so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Gal 3:14

So the question one must ask is, does the new covenant do away with the need for man to be righteous? Since the law says, "Do not kill", does this mean that believers are now free to kill without repercussions since they're no longer under the law? Some Sola Fide adherents actually answer "yes" since that's a sort of logical conclusion drawn from the doctrine. But the answer is given:

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:12-14

Being no longer under the law does not mean that we're free from its righteous requirements; it only means that we meet those requirements another way, the right way, by the Spirit which gives life and not by the Letter which kills. That's to be under grace, to have and to live the life of God.
I didn’t realize that the Catholic Church followed the Jewish law. Note to self: add that to the rest of their doctrinal errors.

Your argument above is a Strawman and I’ll let you figure that out on your own.
 
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Clare73

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No...that was the point, in fact: "sin must be and will be overcome in the regenerate in your view". We both agree that sin is is only overcome by the power of the Spirit. Our difference is in whether a person, now awakened and made alive by God, can walk back away from Him, can return to the flesh, can "die" again.
Eternal life is the result of the new birth (Jn 3:3-5) by the sovereign choice (Jn 3:6-8) of the Holy Spirit.

We do not lose eternal life (Jn 10:28-29).
 
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Colo Millz

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A huge difference. If the law is still required then Jesus sacrifice was for nothing.
Being saved doesn't mean you are now free to be a bad person.

Being saved is not freedom to sin, but freedom from sin.

“If you love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15).
 
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Colo Millz

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Jesus died to fulfill it, to complete it. It is done.
Therefore since I am saved it's ok for me to murder?

“Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”
 
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Hentenza

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Being saved doesn't mean you are now free to be a bad person.
Never made that argument. Another straw man.
Being saved is not freedom to sin, but freedom from sin.

“If you love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15).
Yep. Jesus two commandments not the commandments of the Jewish law.
 
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Hentenza

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Therefore since I am saved it's ok for me to murder?

“Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”
The Strawman continues.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Yes. And here is where the argument should end. Here is where the rubber meets the road.
Yes, many stop at John3:16 and miss out on what not to do to accept the gift He is trying to give John 3:19-21
 
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Colo Millz

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Never made that argument. Another straw man.

Yep. Jesus two commandments not the commandments of the Jewish law.
Jesus’ two great commandments are traditionally understood as a summary of the Decalogue.

Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.
 
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