The law, the commandments, and Christians.

[Guojing]

Oh, ok, no reason for Jesus to come then, I guess. Nothing really new about the new covenant.

You have it a bit backwards. Faith saves because it unites you with the Vine, the source of authentic righteousnessw for man. It thereby justifes you. Faith is to say yes to God, yes to the reconciliation that Jesus accomplished between ourselves and Him. It's to be reconciled. From there, the righteousness that the law only testifies to can begin to flow in and through us like sap, and the sin that earns us death is overcome. There's no condemnation in Christ. The new covenant is not only about forgiveness of sin, but the power to triumph over it, the power to love as God does to put it best. Justification and salvation are inseparable from becoming personally just/righteous, with the gifts of grace given, now walking with the Holy Spirit.

The New covenant is also for Israel, not gentiles. (Romans 9:4, Hebrews 8:8).

It all boils down back to my original question to you, "do you consider yourself as Israel"?

If your answer is still no, then the Law of Moses and the New Covenant is not given to you, like the commandment to build an ark in Genesis 6:14.

If you still want to obey the Law of Moses, be my guest.

 

[fhansen]

The New covenant is also for Israel, not gentiles. (Romans 9:4, Hebrews 8:8).

It all boils down back to my original question to you, "do you consider yourself as Israel"?

If your answer is still no, then the Law of Moses and the New Covenant is not given to you, like the commandment to build an ark in Genesis 6:14.

If you still want to obey the Law of Moses, be my guest.

The question makes no sense; the new covenant is for all, and that’s what Jesus preached, not two gospels, not two ways. All must still obey the commandments, whether or not they’ve even heard them. Rom 2:13. But in the new way, by the Spirit.

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of Godare the children of God.” Rom 8:12-14

 

[Guojing]

The question makes no sense; the new covenant is for all, and that’s what Jesus preached, not two gospels, not two ways. All must still obey the commandments, whether or not they’ve even heard them. Rom 2:13. But in the new way, by the Spirit.

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of Godare the children of God.” Rom 8:12-14

Did you even read Romans 9:4 and Hebrews 8:8 before you concluded that the New Covenant is for all?

If you can still reach that conclusion, that means you disagree with what the 2 verses are literally saying.

 

[HIM]

Did you even read Romans 9:4 and Hebrews 8:8 before you concluded that the New Covenant is for all?

If you can still reach that conclusion, that means you disagree with what the 2 verses are literally saying.

Or you don't understand the context to which they are being spoken.
Who is 9:31-10:4-8 in Romans being spoken to and about?

And with all said how does the following fit into what you purport.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him

 

[fhansen]

Did you even read Romans 9:4 and Hebrews 8:8 before you concluded that the New Covenant is for all?

If you can still reach that conclusion, that means you disagree with what the 2 verses are literally saying.

Or that I understand what’s being said in light of such verses as Eph 3:6 and Gal 3:8, and Rom 9:6-9 for that matter. What Israel received was obviously transferred to all, as the promises were originally intended for all, gentiles being joint heirs.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

It diminishes of course, because he's no longer partaking of it.

It's a Slow Fade, right (as in the 2007 Casting Crowns song)?

• We are one with the Father and the Son (Jn 17:22),
• We are in Him and He is in us (Jn 17:23),
• We are joined to the Lord and are one Spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17),
• We have eternal life because life is in Jesus and Jesus is in us (1 Jn 5:11–12),
• We shall not come into judgement because we have passed from death into life (Jn 5:24),
• With an unveiled face, we behold the glory of the Lord and are transformed into the same image (2 Co 3:18),
• We who have the firstfruits of the Spirit groan within ourselves, and eagerly await our adoption (Ro 8:23),
• We earnestly desire clothing from above and have the Spirit as a guarantee (2 Co 5:1–5),
• We have the mind of Christ (1 Co 2:16),
• We have come to know Him because He lives in our hearts (Jn 14:19-23),
• He will never leave us or forsake us (Heb 13:5), and
• We are partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4).

If you look closely, all these things (and this is not a complete list) are true for a person only if Jesus is residing in that person's heart. If Jesus is in there, all these things are true for him. If Jesus is not in there, none of these things are true for him.

Maybe our dissagreement is not on the effect, but on the residency of Jesus in a person's heart.

And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” (Ga 4:6)​

 

[Guojing]

Or that I understand what’s being said in light of such verses as Eph 3:6 and Gal 3:8, and Rom 9:6-9 for that matter. What Israel received was obviously transferred to all, as the promises were originally intended for all, gentiles being joint heirs.

If you say so.

All the best in your attempt to follow what Jesus commanded the little flock of Israel to do so in Luke 12:32-33. Let me know how you are doing with that.

 

[Guojing]

Or you don't understand the context to which they are being spoken.
Who is 9:31-10:4-8 in Romans being spoken to and about?

And with all said how does the following fit into what you purport.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him

That last verse refers to the Body of Christ, not Israel.

 

[fhansen]

If you say so.

All the best in your attempt to follow what Jesus commanded the little flock of Israel to do so in Luke 12:32-33. Let me know how you are doing with that.

It's not what I say, it's what He says. And if we're not measuring up...then so be it; the gate is narrow. It's already been Scripturally and logically demonstrated that He's speaking the same one message-the Way-to all.

 

[Guojing]

It's not what I say, it's what He says. And if we're not measuring up...then so be it; the gate is narrow. It's already been Scripturally and logically demonstrated that He's speaking the same one message-the Way-to all.

Based on what you are saying “so be it”, it doesn’t matter at all whether or not you follow what Jesus commanded there?

 

[fhansen]

Based on what you are saying “so be it”, it doesn’t matter at all whether or not you follow what Jesus commanded there?

Um, yes, so be it means "Amen"...to what He says.

 

[Guojing]

Um, yes, so be it means "Amen"...to what He says.

But if you claim salvation relies on following what Jesus said, not selling all you have means you will not be saved?

 

[fhansen]

But if you claim salvation relies on following what Jesus said, not selling all you have means you will not be saved?

Definitely a thought worth contemplating. There’s a principle involved: the more of this world with its offerings and values we give up, the nearer we are to God.

 

[BobRyan]

anyone who causes offences to the gospel we have received should have this done to them. ( look who they are bringing with them in these law topics in verse 20)


Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

1. God's Word is not an "offense to the Gospel" that God has given
2. God is the author of "The Commandments of God"
3. God writes His Commandments on the heart under the New Covenant Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8
4. "What matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
5. ":the saints Keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
6. God's commandments include the Ten having "honor your father and mother as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-3