The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

[fhansen]

So faith plus works required for salvation. Not biblical.

Yes...not biblical, except for...the bible.

"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12;14

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Rev 22:14-15

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17

Where the new-age Reformed theology gets it wrong is wherever they determine that the new covenant consists of the freedom to enter heaven without regard to one's righteousness. But, in truth, faith is the means, the doorway, to authentic righteousness, not the freedom to disregard it. It's freedom from unrighteousness, from slavery to sin (Rom 6), not freedom from righteousness and the obligation it demands of us:

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:12-14

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:21-22

But it's just biblical stuff...

 

[Mercy Shown]

What this world's religions do not take into account, is who Paul is speaking about in Romans 1-3. Specifically those Pharisees who had been given the Oracles of God, but many didn't believe them. These men slandered Paul, "who damnation is just" and Asked the question, "Are we better than they"? To which he replied, "by no means" as he has already taught before, men who engage in this behavior are "Still under Sin". He tells us that he and the Body of Christ are no better, that if they engaged in the same behavior as the Jews who Jesus said, " Full well reject the Commandments of God that they might promote their own traditions", they would be subject to the same judgment from God. Paul quotes David to make his point in Psalms 5 and 14 and also already declared in Rom. 2 the righteous Judgment of God, "Who will render to every manaccording to his deeds:"

Paul understood that he was no better than anyone else, and would also be judged according to his deeds. You can see Paul's understanding of the Righteous Judgments of God, concerning their slanderous behavior in Rom. 2. "for we have "before proved"both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;" Please see below, where he "before proved".

7 To them who by patient continuance "in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 "But unto them" that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, (men who full well rejected God's Commandments) indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon "every soul of man" that "doeth" evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, "to every man" that "worketh" good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Paul understood he was held unto the same standards as everyone else, "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: For God is no respecter of persons.

Paul goes on to quote David's judgments against those men who were persecuting God's Church.

Ps. 5: 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

8 Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.

9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

This is really important to understand, as "many" who come in Christ's Name, preach that Paul is talking about the Body of Christ being no different than the Pharisees who persecutes the Body of Christ. That isn't what Paul is saying at all, as can be easily seen by reading David's Words that Paul used to make his point.

Keep in mind also Isaiah 1, which defines the Pharisees perfectly. Here is a religion who professed to know God, but rejected His Commandments, Judgments and Statutes to the point of God calling them "Sodom". Yet every week they would show up with the Blood of Animals, as prescribed by the Priesthood Law "After the order of Aaron", to justify their lawless religion. As you can see when you read Isaiah, these "Sacrificial Works of the Law", didn't not Justify their willful rejection of God's Judgments and Commandments. Paul understood this, that the mainstream preachers of his time, still promoted the same Priesthood "Works" to justify them, even though these sacrificial "works of the law", were only a temporary "ADDED" Law, given after the Golden calf, that was only to be in place "till the Seed, (Lamb of God) should come". (Gal. 3)

The Prophesied New Priest had already come, these sacrificial "works" were prophesied to end "after those days". (Jer. 31) But the Jews were still promoting a corrupted version of them, still selling calves, turtle doves and goats for justification of sins.

Paul speaks to this New Priest, and the "Better Ministry";

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith "in his blood", (Not the blood of animals as per the Old Priesthood Law) to declare his righteousness "for the remission of sins that are past", through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Here is the two Laws part.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? "of works"?

(Lev. 4: 27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. 29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

This was the "Law of Works" for justification "Till the Seed should come".

Nay: but by the "law of faith".

22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. As it is written: "The Just shall Live by Faith".

The lesson here from Paul and Isaiah is for me at this time in history, is the same as then. That a man can't live in rejection of God's Commandments, Judgments and Statutes, then show up each week with the Blood of an unblemished Sacrifice, as required by Law, for justification of willful rejection of God's Laws.

For by the "Works of the Law" shall no Flesh be justified.

I am going to try and outline the main points of your argument and add a rebuttal. If I have misunderstood any of them, please clarify.

1. Claim:​

Romans 1–3 speaks only of unbelieving Jews (Pharisees), not all humanity.

Response:
Paul is very clear that his argument in Romans 1–3 encompasses the entire human race, not just the Pharisees.

• Romans 1:18–32 describes Gentiles who reject God’s revelation in nature.
• Romans 2:1–3:8 condemns Jews who boast in the Law but break it.
• Romans 3:9 draws the conclusion:
  

  “What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin.”

The phrase “both Jews and Gentiles” shows that Paul’s point is universal guilt, not merely Pharisaic hypocrisy.
He later sums it up in Romans 3:23 — “for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

Supporting texts:

• Romans 5:12 — “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men.”
• Ephesians 2:1–3 — All were “by nature children of wrath.”

Paul’s point: everyone needs justification through Christ, not just corrupt religious leaders.

2. Claim:​

Paul says we are judged according to our deeds, therefore salvation depends on obedience.

Response:
Romans 2:6–11 is not teaching salvation by works; it describes God’s perfect standard of judgment that no one meets.
Paul uses this to lead his readers to the conclusion in Romans 3:20 —

“By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight.”

The “judgment by works” principle shows that God’s judgment is righteous and impartial — but it also proves that no one can attain eternal life through good deeds (Romans 3:9–12).

Supporting texts:

• Romans 4:4–5 — “To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”
• Titus 3:5 — “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.”

Thus, Romans 2 is diagnostic, not prescriptive — it shows why grace is needed.

3. Claim:​

Paul’s quotations from David (Psalm 5, 14) apply only to the persecutors of the church, not to all mankind.

Response:
Paul quotes Psalms 14 and 5 to demonstrate universal sin, not to identify a single persecuting group.
He says:

“There is none righteous, no, not one.” — Romans 3:10–12

Psalm 14 originally lamented the corruption of humanity as a whole (“The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men…” v. 2). Paul cites it to show that sin pervades every heart.
So his use is not narrow; it’s universal.

Supporting texts:

• Psalm 14:2–3 — “They are all gone aside… there is none that doeth good.”
• Romans 3:19 — “That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”

4. Claim:​

Isaiah 1 condemns Pharisees who used sacrifices without obedience — just as Paul opposed “works of the law.”

Response:
Isaiah 1 indeed condemns hypocritical worship, but Paul’s critique in Romans and Galatians goes further.
Paul isn’t only denouncing corrupt ritualism; he’s declaring the entire old covenant system powerless to justify.

Supporting texts:

• Hebrews 10:1–4 — The law and sacrifices were “a shadow… [that] can never… make perfect.”
• Romans 3:21–22 — “But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested…”

Isaiah’s point and Paul’s differ in scope: Isaiah called Israel back to sincere obedience under the covenant; Paul proclaims a new covenant where righteousness is imputed through faith in Christ, not maintained by law-keeping.

5. Claim:​

There are two laws — the moral law (permanent) and sacrificial law (temporary).

Response:
Scripture never divides Moses’ law that way; it treats it as one unified covenant.

Supporting texts:

• Deuteronomy 4:13–14 — The Ten Commandments and statutes are both part of “the covenant.”
• 2 Corinthians 3:7–11 — The law “engraved in stones” (Ten Commandments) is called “the ministry of death” that was “done away.”
• Galatians 3:24–25 — “The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ… but after faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”

Therefore, all aspects of the Mosaic law — moral, ceremonial, civil — belonged to one covenant now fulfilled in Christ(Romans 10:4).

6. Claim:​

The “works of the law” Paul condemns refer only to sacrificial rituals.

Response:
Paul uses “works of the law” to mean any attempt to earn righteousness through law-keeping, not just sacrifices.

Supporting texts:

• Romans 3:20 — “By the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
• Galatians 2:16 — “A man is not justified by the works of the law.”
  In Galatians, Paul rebukes circumcision (a moral-identity marker, not a sacrifice), proving “works of the law” include the whole system of observances.

Thus, the problem isn’t merely temple rituals — it’s trusting human obedience instead of Christ’s finished work.

---

7. Claim:​

Faith replaces animal sacrifice, but believers must still obey the Ten Commandments to be justified.

Response:
Faith in Christ does not supplement the law — it supersedes it as the ground of justification.
Obedience is the fruit, not the basis, of salvation.

Supporting texts:

• Ephesians 2:8–10 — “By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works… for we are His workmanship.”
• Romans 8:3–4 — The law’s righteous requirement is fulfilled in us through the Spirit.
• Hebrews 8:13 — “In that He saith, A new covenant… He hath made the first old.”

Believers are now under “the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2), living by the Spirit who writes God’s moral will on the heart — not by trying to keep Sinai’s covenant code for justification.

 

[Mercy Shown]

While I agree that Romans 3:20 refers to two different categories of law, it is incorrect that those categories are the moral, civil, and ceremonial law. The people who speak about those categories of law commonly assume that the people that they are speaking to have in mind the same set of laws, but that is unsafe to make that assumption because if all of them were to make lists of which laws they think best fit into those categories, then they would end up with a wide variety of lists. Moreover, none of those people should interpret the Bible with the assumption that its authors had in mind a lists of laws that they just created, especially when there is no way to even establish that they ever used that categories.

Existence of the category of moral law would mean that we can be acting morally while disobeying the laws that aren't in that category, however, there are no examples in the Bible where disobedient to any of God's laws is stated as being moral and there is no justification for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to embody God's likeness through being a doer of His character traits, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Legislators give laws in accordance with their understanding of what ought to be done, so to claim that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when He gave those laws and is therefore to claim to have greater moral knowledge than God. Such as person is disagreeing with God about what is right and wrong and is taking the position that they should lean on their own understanding of right and wrong by doing only what is right in their own eyes rather than trust in God with all of their heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through His law and to make our way straight (Proverbs 3:1-7).

This is a well thought out observation. Here are my comments on your points.

1. The threefold division is descriptive, not imposed​

It’s true that Scripture never labels laws “moral, civil, and ceremonial,” but that doesn’t mean the distinction is invalid.
The division is an observation about function, not a claim about how Moses categorized the law.

Scriptural pattern:

• Moral commands — timeless duties grounded in God’s character (e.g., “You shall not murder,” Ex. 20:13).
• Civil laws — applications of moral principles to Israel’s national life (e.g., property, restitution, penalties).
• Ceremonial laws — rituals foreshadowing Christ (e.g., sacrifices, priesthood, dietary restrictions).

Jesus Himself acknowledged a hierarchy and enduring core within the law:

“Justice, mercy, and faithfulness… these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.” — Matthew 23:23

He also taught that love of God and neighbor sum up all the law (Matt. 22:37–40), which assumes some laws express the essence while others are derivative.

So while the Bible never uses the labels, the distinction is biblically grounded in purpose and fulfillment.

2. God’s laws are all righteous, but not all permanent​

It is correct that all God’s laws are moral when given — but not all are universally binding for all time.
Some were covenantal expressions of holiness for Israel, designed to point to Christ.

Scriptural evidence:

• Hebrews 7:12 — “For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.”
• Hebrews 10:1 — The law was “a shadow of the good things to come.”
• Ephesians 2:15 — Christ “abolished in His flesh the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”

Thus, rejecting the ongoing obligation of ceremonial or civil statutes does not imply they were immoral — only that their intended purpose has been fulfilled.

3. Jesus and the apostles explicitly set aside covenant-specific laws​

Christ Himself declared certain Mosaic requirements obsolete:

• Mark 7:18–19 — By declaring all foods clean, He set aside dietary restrictions.
• Matthew 5:31–32 — He revised Mosaic divorce concessions, citing God’s original design.
• Acts 15:10–11, 28–29 — The Jerusalem Council determined Gentiles were not bound by the full Mosaic code.

Paul likewise wrote:

“You are not under law but under grace.” — Romans 6:14
“Let no one judge you in food, drink, festival, new moon, or sabbath.” — Colossians 2:16–17

The moral principle (obedience to God) remains, but the covenant expression changes under Christ.

4. Obedience under the New Covenant is Spirit-empowered, not code-based​

Under the Mosaic covenant, morality was expressed in statutes; under the New Covenant, it is written on the heart (Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 8:3–4).
This means believers do not “pick and choose” laws but live by the Spirit, who fulfills the law’s righteous intent in us.

“Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” — Romans 13:10

To follow the Spirit’s law of love is not to lean on one’s own understanding, but to walk in the fulfillment of God’s moral will through Christ.

5. The moral continuity of God’s character does not require legal continuity​

God’s nature never changes, but His covenants can.

• Genesis 9 — Dietary permission changed after the flood.
• Exodus 19 — Israel received new laws at Sinai.
• Hebrews 8:13 — “He has made the first covenant obsolete.”

Therefore, affirming the end of Mosaic legislation under the New Covenant does not question God’s morality — it acknowledges His progressive revelation and redemptive plan.

 

[fhansen]

Response:
Faith in Christ does not supplement the law — it supersedes it as the ground of justification.
Obedience is the fruit, not the basis, of salvation.

Supporting texts:
8

• Ephesians 2:8–10 — “By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works… for we are His workmanship.”
• Romans 8:3–4 — The law’s righteous requirement is fulfilled in us through the Spirit.
• Hebrews 8:13 — “In that He saith, A new covenant… He hath made the first old.”

Believers are now under “the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2), living by the Spirit who writes God’s moral will on the heart — not by trying to keep Sinai’s covenant code for justification.

In Rom 8:12-13 we’re enjoined to walk in the Spirit in order to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, so that we may live. The requirements of the law are absolutely right which is why it’s said in Rom 3:21 that the law and prophets testify to this new righteousness given. The necessity for obedience of the law as referenced and described by Jesus and Paul in Matt 19:17, Rom 7:7 and 13:9-10 does not go away.

The problem with the law is that the written code can do nothing to make one righteous; it only ends up condemning one of his unrighteousness, in fact. The new covenant does not have the purpose of freeing us from fulfilling the law, just the opposite. It supersedes the old covenant that only gives us the Letter but does not give us the Spirit by which to actually accomplish what the Letter requires. This is why reconciliation with God is central to the new covenant, so that He indwells us as is meant to be the case for man, as justice and order, themselves, demand. Then and only then can true justice and order begin to reign in him. Then we are no longer “under the law” as the means of fulfilling it, but “under grace” as the means of fulfilling it. The former means I fulfill it on my own, still in the flesh and apart from God, as if I actually possessed a righteousness of my own, apart from Him, while the latter means I fulfill it with Him, the only true source of righteousness, the only true source of love, which defines righteousness and therefore is uniquely capable of fulfilling the law by its nature.

“For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” Rom 7:5-6

Incidentally, much of the above relates to why past theologians have associated the Holy Spirit, love, and grace as being intrinsically related.

 

[Hentenza]

Yes...not biblical, except for...the bible.

"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12;14

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Rev 22:14-15

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17

Where the new-age Reformed theology gets it wrong is wherever they determine that the new covenant consists of the freedom to enter heaven without regard to one's righteousness. But, in truth, faith is the means, the doorway, to authentic righteousness, not the freedom to disregard it. It's freedom from unrighteousness, from slavery to sin (Rom 6), not freedom from righteousness and the obligation it demands of us:

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:12-14

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:21-22

But it's just biblical stuff...

Except your interpretation.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭8‬, ‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jes | New American Standard Bible -

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jes

bible.com

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

“being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in God’s merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭24‬-‭25‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 3:24-25 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousn | New American Standard Bible - NA

being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousn

bible.com

“What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 4:1-3 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scr | New American Standard Bible - NASB

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scr

bible.com

“Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 4:4-6 Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteous | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteous

bible.com

“Now faith is the certainty of things hoped for, a proof of things not seen. For by it the people of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he was attested to be righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for before he was taken up, he was attested to have been pleasing to God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 11:2-5 For by it the people of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible. By faith A | New American Standard Bible - NA

For by it the people of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible. By faith A

bible.com

“And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭39‬-‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 11:39-40 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect. | New American Standard Bible - NAS

And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

bible.com

“Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Therefore, recognize that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:6-9 Just as Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, recognize that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would just | New American Standard Bible - N

Just as Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Therefore, recognize that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would just

bible.com

“My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.””
‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭27‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 10:27-30 My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to | New American Standard Bible - NAS

My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to

bible.com

“Not that we domineer over your faith, but we are workers with you for your joy; for in your faith you are standing firm.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭24‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

2 Corinthians 1:24 Not that we domineer over your faith, but we are workers with you for your joy; for in your faith you are standing firm. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

Not that we domineer over your faith, but we are workers with you for your joy; for in your faith you are standing firm.

bible.com

Salvation is by faith not by works. The moment you add faith then you are trying to save yourself. As we talked before I will continue to contend that we do works from salvation, we are made a workmanship of Christ after salvation by faith (Eph 2:8-10). We do not do works for salvation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.””

There are a lot of conditions to this verse

1. His sheep listen to His voice

Would that not include

Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

or this who Jesus is God quoting OT

Mat:44 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

2. and I know them

How does Jesus know us?

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments

3. and they follow Me;

Jesus did not just come to die for our sins, He showed us the righteous way one lives following in His example

1 Peter 2: 21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”

Sin is breaking God's laws 1John3:4 His version, not ours.

1 John 2: 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

There are conditions to our salvation. Faith does not void the law, it establishes it Rom3:31 Not everyone who says Lord Lord (believers) will be saved, but those that DO the will of the Father, Jesus will say depart from Me those He does not know 1John2:4 Mat7:21-23

Many want all the promises of God, but they don;t really want God to do His good will, following in His footsteps abiding in Him.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

John 3:16​

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

This is such a beautiful promise that many never read past this one verse to receive His free gift and He tells us why just a few verses down

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

If we are staying in our sins which is evil Gal1:4 Neh13:17 Mar 3:4 and makes us an enemy of God Rom8:7-8 instead of coming to the light (Jesus, Truth) and confessing and forsaking our sins Pro 28:13, which means a change of heart, turning from, from evil and darkness sin, soming to Jesus. Many do not want to come to the light because they like their sins, more than they love Jesus Exo20:6 John14:15 1 John 5:3

 

[Studyman]

I am going to try and outline the main points of your argument and add a rebuttal. If I have misunderstood any of them, please clarify.

1. Claim:​

Romans 1–3 speaks only of unbelieving Jews (Pharisees), not all humanity.

To be honest, it seems prudent to accurately represent my post. Here is the actual claim.

"What this world's religions do not take into account, is who Paul is speaking about in Romans 1-3. Specifically those Pharisees who had been given the Oracles of God, but many didn't believe them.

He was teaching all of humanity, but the foundation of his teaching was to expose the mainstream preachers of his time.

Response:
Paul is very clear that his argument in Romans 1–3 encompasses the entire human race, not just the Pharisees.

• Romans 1:18–32 describes Gentiles who reject God’s revelation in nature.
• Romans 2:1–3:8 condemns Jews who boast in the Law but break it.
• Romans 3:9 draws the conclusion:

The phrase “both Jews and Gentiles” shows that Paul’s point is universal guilt, not merely Pharisaic hypocrisy.
He later sums it up in Romans 3:23 — “for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.

While it is true that all men have sinned, it's important to understand who Paul and Jesus were fighting with here, and who God's Wrath was with in the Law and Prophets. And who was promoting falsehoods about God in Paul's time.

And also, it wasn't "All mankind" that was persecuting the Church of God. It isn't "all mankind" "whose throat is an open sepulcher". The popular teaching that Paul is saying there is no difference between the rebellious Jews and the Church of God is popular, and you have clearly adopted it. But given what is actually written, Paul isn't teaching that at all. Please consider all of his words here.

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it "unto them".

I hope you will engage in honest discourse here and address a few questions that I have for you.

"Who did God Show Himself to, in the The Law and Prophets, where the righteousness and wrath of God is revealed, where is it written, "The Just shall Live by Faith"? Did God give His Oracles to the entire Human Race? Or did HE give His Oracles, that show "that which may be known of God", to Israel?

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that "they" are without excuse:

Who are "without excuse", those who were led astray by the corrupt Shepherds, or those who "led them astray"? Didn't Jesus come to save the lost? "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto "the lost sheep" of the house of Israel.

Why were they lost, were there not Priest's and Scribes and the Holy Scriptures and prophets, etc? I think Paul answers this.

21 Because that, when "they" knew God, "they" glorified him "not as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

32 Who "knowing the judgment of God", that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Who were given the Judgments of God? Gentiles, or Jews?

In Romans 2: 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Who was Judging Paul, Judged and killed the Prophets and Jesus, and persecuted the Church of God all the way back to David and before?? Was it not Jews who professed to know God? Doesn't Paul answer this question in Rom. 2?

17 Behold, "thou" art called "a Jew", and restest in the law, and makest "thy" boast of God,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, "being instructed" out of the law;

Isn't Paul still talking about those who "Knew God" here, but Glorified Him not as God?

19 And art confident "that thou thyself" art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 "An instructor" of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore "which teachest" another, teachest thou not thyself? thou "that preachest" a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles" through you, as it is written.

Can you not see that it wasn't the "entire human race" that Paul is speaking about here, that were leading others astray, that caused the name of God to be blasphemed among the Gentiles. It was the Shepherds that Moses and the Prophets warned about, that Jesus warned about over and over and over and over. Men who professed to know God, but rejected His Judgments and Laws.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

And then he continues in Romans 3:

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that "unto them" were committed "the oracles of God".

3 For what if some did not believe? shall "their unbelief" make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Supporting texts:

• Romans 5:12 — “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men.”
• Ephesians 2:1–3 — All were “by nature children of wrath.”

Paul’s point: everyone needs justification through Christ, not just corrupt religious leaders.

It is true that everyone needs to be learned of the Father, and given to the Lord's Christ for saving. But I was speaking to Roman's 1-3, in which Paul was explaining what happened to Priest's and religious leaders of the world, who persecuted David and Paul and Jesus.

It is the corrupt religious leaders which lead men astray if they are inclined to listen to them. The Entire Law and Prophets is a warning about listening to the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in. I already know what this world's religious leaders teach about Paul's message, that " the entire human race" is no different than the rebellious Jews. That there was no difference between the rebellious Jews, and the Church of God that Paul was a part of.

That in "ALL" of mankind "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Neither Paul, nor David that he quoted, promote such a philosophy that you have adopted and are promoting. I was hoping that you might actually read Psalms 5 and 14, and consider what Paul is actually saying, so as to understand who is "Still under sin" and who is not.

That is still my hope.

 

[Hentenza]

There are a lot of conditions to this verse

Nope. No conditions.

1. His sheep listen to His voice

Would that not include

Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

or this who Jesus is God quoting OT

Mat:44 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

Not related. Again you are attempting to add the law as a condition for salvation.

2. and I know them

How does Jesus know us?

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments

Which commandments? We keep Jesus commandments naturally from salvation. The Christian does not keep Jesus commandments for salvation otherwise we are being saved by works which is not biblical. Furthermore, there is no command in the New Testament post resurrection requiring the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath.

3. and they follow Me;

Jesus did not just come to die for our sins, He showed us the righteous way one lives following in His example

Jesus did come to die for our sins. No law is necessary nor commanded. The Christian walks in the Spirit.

1 Peter 2: 21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”

Finish the verse. Out of context verses do not help you.

“and He Himself brought our sins in His body up on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭24‬-‭25‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Peter 2:24-25 and He Himself brought our sins in His body up on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but no | New American Standard Bible - N

and He Himself brought our sins in His body up on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but no

bible.com

Sin is breaking God's laws 1John3:4 His version, not ours.

1 John 2: 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

I guess Paul and John are in conflict if we follow your interpretation.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:2-4 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in th | New American Standard Bible - NASB

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in th

bible.com

There are conditions to our salvation. Faith does not void the law, it establishes it Rom3:31 Not everyone who says Lord Lord (believers) will be saved, but those that DO the will of the Father, Jesus will say depart from Me those He does not know 1John2:4 Mat7:21-23

Christ fulfilled the law. The old contract is finished and no longer in force. The new contract does not include the bondage of the law. Your interpretation and understanding is flawed. If the law is still in effect then Jesus did not die on the cross.

Many want all the promises of God, but they don;t really want God to do His good will, following in His footsteps abiding in Him.

Not by following the law. Walk in the Spirit not in the law.

 

[Hentenza]

This is such a beautiful promise that many never read past this one verse to receive His free gift and He tells us why just a few verses down

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

‘Why did you jump verse 18 which qualifies the verses you posted?

Let’s post them.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭21‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16-21 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but | New American Standard Bible - NASB

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but

bible.com

These verses are all about faith not about works. There is no mention here of following the law. In fact the works mentioned in verse 21 is consistent to Paul’s teaching in Eph. 2:10 as we are made a workmanship of God after salvation and do the works prepared in advance by God for us to do.

If we are staying in our sins which is evil Gal1:4 Neh13:17 Mar 3:4 and makes us an enemy of God Rom8:7-8 instead of coming to the light (Jesus, Truth) and confessing and forsaking our sins Pro 28:13, which means a change of heart, turning from, from evil and darkness sin, soming to Jesus. Many do not want to come to the light because they like their sins, more than they love Jesus Exo20:6 John14:15 1 John 5:3

The ones that stay in their sins, those that remain in the dark, are unbelievers. Again, the Christian is not under the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:2-4 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in th | New American Standard Bible - NASB

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in th

bible.com

Lets finish this out what it means to have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us who are walking by the Spirit not the flesh

Is someone walking in the Spirit disobeying God's laws? What did Jesus say on this matter? Does what He say not count?

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So are you claiming the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit who wrote the Ten Commandments that all His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 is teaching to disobey His very commandments?

What does Paul define as walking in the flesh?

Rom8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Christ fulfilled the law. The old contract is finished and no longer in force. The new contract does not include the bondage of the law. Your interpretation and understanding is flawed. If the law is still in effect then Jesus did not die on the cross.

Not by following the law. Walk in the Spirit not in the law.

Lets again actually look at the Scripture

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Does fulfill mean the same thing as destroy? To end- of course not. When one fulfills a wedding covenant does that mean they can commit adultery? Sadly this is what people are teaching to commit adultery with God. Jesus filled- full the Law just as He promised to do

Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

What are we supposed to do with God's law- same as Jesus John15:10 1 John2:6

Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What does walking in the flesh mean? Those laying aside the commandments of God Mark7:7-8

Rom 8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So lets not twist what Jesus said plainly and make ourselves an enemy to Him.

Those who receive His Spirit is not disobeying God's laws John 15:14-18 Acts 5:32. If one would use common sense- is Jesus teaching because He fulfilled the law that means we can worship other gods, or vain His holy name, or steal from our neighbor and murder them breaking the least of these commandments the opposite of what He said in the same passage? Mat5:19-30 that makes us an enemy of God Rom8:7-8 and outside God's Kingdom Rev22:15

Who decided who are God's commandments God or man?

I am going with God.

God said the first covenant His Ten Commandments are His laws

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

According to clear Scripture the New Covenant is established on better promises and still has God's laws now written on a better surface, from tables of stone to tablets of the heart. Why we see all Ten Commandments being kept all throughout the NC because they never disappeared as many teach because its still sin to break them 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:11

2 Cor3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

I don't know why so many spend their time focusing on what the NC is not about instead on focusing what God said it is about- better promises. Is it a better promise to worship other gods? Or is it the better promise of how God will help us keep His commandments through our love and faith (John14:15-18) so we don't sin and fall in apostasy like those who came before us. Do we really think God loves us more than those before us Rom2:11 that the result is going to be different when we are told plainly its not? Heb 4:11 1 John2:4 Mat7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 Heb 10:26-30

Like Joshua if only worshipping God seems evil to us, which is the first commandment in the Ten that Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy (like the other nine) we all must make choices. . .

Joh 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of [b]the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

So when Jesus asked which commandments same questioned you asked..He quoted from the Ten Commandments for eternal life. Mat 19:17-19 saying not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 laying aside the commandments of God is living is worshipping Him in vain Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14

Sin is also anything that is not of faith. Like claiming God's commandments are only 9 when God said they are Ten Deut4:13 Exo 34:28 forgetting the only one that God said Remember that is holy, santified and blessed by God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

‘Why did you jump verse 18 which qualifies the verses you posted?

Let’s post them.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭21‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16-21 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but | New American Standard Bible - NASB

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but

bible.com

These verses are all about faith not about works. There is no mention here of following the law. In fact the works mentioned in verse 21 is consistent to Paul’s teaching in Eph. 2:10 as we are made a workmanship of God after salvation and do the works prepared in advance by God for us to do.

The ones that stay in their sins, those that remain in the dark, are unbelievers. Again, the Christian is not under the law.

Because believing in Jesus as stated in verse 19-21 is not staying in sin. Many have reduced the biblical definition of faith and belief in Jesus to mean not hearing His voice, not doing the things He asks and being in rebellion to God's laws Faith is not for the hearers but for the doers, faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom 3:31

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Why one of the last verses in the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus comes says this:


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

The Ten Commandments is God’s personal Testimony Exo 31:18 why its under His mercy seat revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 where one day soon justice and mercy will come together and what did He promise right in the Ten Commandments

Exo 20: 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

 

[Hentenza]

Lets finish this out what it means to have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us who are walking by the Spirit not the flesh

Is someone walking in the Spirit disobeying God's laws? What did Jesus say on this matter? Does what He say not count?

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So are you claiming the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit who wrote the Ten Commandments that all His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 is teaching to disobey His very commandments?

What does Paul define as walking in the flesh?

Rom8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Again, nothing here about the Christian keeping the law. As I stated in my post the Christian does works naturally from salvation not for it.

Lets again actually look at the Scripture

Or just at your misinterpreted verses

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Does fulfill mean the same thing as destroy? To end- of course not. When one fulfills a wedding covenant does that mean they can commit adultery? Sadly this is what people are teaching to commit adultery with God. Jesus filled- full the Law just as He promised to do

Right. To fulfill, to complete the contract.

Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Old covenant=t. Not applicable to the Christian.

What are we supposed to do with God's law- same as Jesus John15:10 1 John2:6

Which commandments? Hint: Jesus gave us 2. In fact, you ignore the verses thst teach against your theology.

“Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 13:8-10 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHA | New American Standard Bible - NA

Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHA

bible.com

Did you notice how Jesus fulfilled the law here? Do you notice what the commandments are actually are in the new covenant? Do you notice that there is nothing here or in your post that teaches that the Christian is under the law?

Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What does walking in the flesh mean? Those laying aside the commandments of God Mark7:7-8

Rom 8: 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So lets not twist what Jesus said plainly and make ourselves an enemy to Him.

Those who receive His Spirit is not disobeying God's laws John 15:14-18 Acts 5:32. If one would use common sense- is Jesus teaching because He fulfilled the law that means we can worship other gods, or vain His holy name, or steal from our neighbor and murder them breaking the least of these commandments the opposite of what He said in the same passage? Mat5:19-30 that makes us an enemy of God Rom8:7-8 and outside God's Kingdom Rev22:15

Who decided who are God's commandments God or man?

I am going with God.

God said the first covenant His Ten Commandments are His laws

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

According to clear Scripture the New Covenant is established on better promises and still has God's laws now written on a better surface, from tables of stone to tablets of the heart. Why we see all Ten Commandments being kept all throughout the NC because they never disappeared as many teach because its still sin to break them 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:11

2 Cor3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

I don't know why so many spend their time focusing on what the NC is not about instead on focusing what God said it is about- better promises. Is it a better promise to worship other gods? Or is it the better promise of how God will help us keep His commandments through our love and faith (John14:15-18) so we don't sin and fall in apostasy like those who came before us. Do we really think God loves us more than those before us Rom2:11 that the result is going to be different when we are told plainly its not? Heb 4:11 1 John2:4 Mat7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 Heb 10:26-30

Like Joshua if only worshipping God seems evil to us, which is the first commandment in the Ten that Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy (like the other nine) we all must make choices. . .

Joh 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of [b]the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

So when Jesus asked which commandments same questioned you asked..He quoted from the Ten Commandments for eternal life. Mat 19:17-19 saying not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 laying aside the commandments of God is living is worshipping Him in vain Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14

Sin is also anything that is not of faith. Like claiming God's commandments are only 9 when God said they are Ten Deut4:13 Exo 34:28 forgetting the only one that God said Remember that is holy, santified and blessed by God.\\

These are your usual copy and paste that we have discussed ad nauseum in another thread. Nothing here requires the Christian to follow the law. Your understanding and definition of the commandments in the new covenant is flawed and clouded with your desire to put the monkey of the law back in the Christian’s back.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Again, nothing here about the Christian keeping the law. As I stated in my post the Christian does works naturally from salvation not for it.

Or just at your misinterpreted verses

Right. To fulfill, to complete the contract.

Old covenant=t. Not applicable to the Christian.

Which commandments? Hint: Jesus gave us 2. In fact, you ignore the verses thst teach against your theology.

“Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 13:8-10 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHA | New American Standard Bible - NA

Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHA

bible.com

Did you notice how Jesus fulfilled the law here? Do you notice what the commandments are actually are in the new covenant? Do you notice that there is nothing here or in your post that teaches that the Christian is under the law?

These are your usual copy and paste that we have discussed ad nauseum in another thread. Nothing here requires the Christian to follow the law. Your understanding and definition of the commandments in the new covenant is flawed and clouded with your desire to put the monkey of the law back in the Christian’s back.

So according to you one teaching of Jesus deletes all His other teachings and what the two greatest commandments hang on Rom 13:9 Deut 6:5 quoted after Deut 5 was repeated before entering the promise land to diligently keep, and teach for generations as it is with us to enter our Promise Land Rev 22:14-15 , deletes every commandment and principle they hang on. Interesting argument, not what Jesus taught or lived.

Guess we will find out soon enough.

For the record, I may copy some of my own studies, because sadly, its the same sad arguments people use/copy over and over against to be disobedient to the God of the Universe and His own Testimony Exo 31:18 which is what the entire Bible is about and hangs on. How we love God, how we love our neighbor, the testimony of God through His prophets and disciples but when it comes to God’s own will Psa 40:8 and Testimony Exo 31:18 God personally wrote and spoke, few believe Exo20:8 Mat 7:12-13

 

[Hentenza]

Because believing in Jesus as stated in verse 19-21 is not staying in sin.

Context. Those that remain in sin are those that remain in darkness. Verse 18 is crystal clear. What happens to those that have faith versus those that do not?

“The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

bible.com

Many have reduced the biblical definition of faith and belief in Jesus to mean not hearing His voice, not doing the things He asks and being in rebellion to God's laws Faith is not for the hearers but for the doers, faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom 3:31

Romans 3:31 does not teach what you claim. This is what happens when you take verses in an island, divorced from context. If Paul meant to teach that we are still under the law then he is bipolar when he teaches that the law is weak in chapter 8.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Yes, this talks about sanctification not about salvation. Paul and James are NOT teaching different gospels. James is not teaching salvation by works. James is not teaching that the Christian is under the law.

Why one of the last verses in the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus comes says this:


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

Again, which commandments. I’ve already showed you your misunderstanding of what the commandments are. Irs also funny how you mix covenants in essence requiring the terms of the old contract on the new contract which does not include such terms.

The Ten Commandments is God’s personal Testimony Exo 31:18 why its under His mercy seat revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 where one day soon justice and mercy will come together and what did He promise right in the Ten Commandments

Exo 20: 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

The audience of Exodus 20 are the Jews not the Christians. The Christians are not Jews but a mix of Jews and gentiles. Secondly you have not defined which commandments when referring to new covenant scripture.

 

[Hentenza]

So according to you one teaching of Jesus deletes all His other teachings and what the two greatest commandments hang on Rom 13:9 Deut 6:5 quoted after Deut 5 was repeated before entering the promise land to diligently keep, and teach for generations as it is with us to enter our Promise Land Rev 22:14-15 , deletes every commandment and principle they hang on. Interesting argument, not what Jesus taught or lived.

Dont ignore scripture. Dont apply the terms of the old contract to the new contract. The audience of Deuteronomy is the Jews not the Christians.

Guess we will find out soon enough.

For the record, I may copy my own studies, because sadly, its the same sad arguments people use over and over against to be disobedient to the God of the Universe and His own Testimony Exo 31:18 which is what the entire Bible is about and hangs on. How we love God, how we love our neighbor, the testimony of God through His prophets and disciples but when it comes to God’s own will Psa 40:8 and Testimony Exo 31:18 God personally wrote and spoke, few believe Exo20:8 Mat 7:12-13

When you introduce error to the study then you continue to c&p error.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Context. Those that remain in sin are those that remain in darkness. Verse 18 is crystal clear. What happens to those that have faith versus those that do not?

“The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

bible.com

Romans 3:31 does not teach what you claim. This is what happens when you take verses in an island, divorced from context. If Paul meant to teach that we are still under the law then he is bipolar when he teaches that the law is weak in chapter 8.

Yes, this talks about sanctification not about salvation. Paul and James are NOT teaching different gospels. James is not teaching salvation by works. James is not teaching that the Christian is under the law.

Again, which commandments. I’ve already showed you your misunderstanding of what the commandments are. Irs also funny how you mix covenants in essence requiring the terms of the old contract on the new contract which does not include such terms.

The audience of Exodus 20 are the Jews not the Christians. The Christians are not Jews but a mix of Jews and gentiles. Secondly you have not defined which commandments when referring to new covenant scripture.

Than I guess you believe Jesus taught two gospels, because He said He did not come to destroy His own law that He wrote and He spoke that sits under His mercy seat revealed in heaven Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 Heb 8:1-5 because its settled Psa 119:89 telling one laying aside the commandments of God one worships Him in vain Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 so Jews can’t worship other gods, but Gentiles can. Jews can’t vain His holy name, but Gentiles can. Jews can’t steal or covet, but Gentiles can. Not something one can reconcile in our Bibles Mat 5:19-30 James 2:11-12 Rev 22:14-15

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Dont ignore scripture. Dont apply the terms of the old contract to the new contract. The audience of Deuteronomy is the Jews not the Christians.

When you introduce error to the study then you continue to c&p error.

Please take your own advice

What is the New Covenant established on? All new laws? Can you please point where it says this?

According to what I can find in Scripture the New Covenant is established (the basis) on better promises

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

What else does the New Covenant have?

Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Who determines what are God's laws- God or us?

God said the first covenant His Ten Commandments are His laws

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 20:6 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

According to clear Scripture the New Covenant is established on better promises and still has God's laws now written on a better surface, from tables of stone to tablets of the heart. Why we see all Ten Commandments being kept all throughout the NC because they never disappeared as many teach because its still sin to break them 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:11

2 Cor3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

I don't know why so many spend their time focusing on what the NC is not about instead on focusing what God said it is about- better promises. Is it a better promise to worship other gods? Or is it the better promise of how God will help us keep His commandments through our love and faith (John14:15-18) so we don't sin and fall in apostasy like those who came before us. Do we really think God loves us more than those before us Rom2:11 that the result is going to be different when we are told plainly its not? Heb 4:11 1 John2:4Mat7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 Heb 10:26-30

Like Joshua if only worshipping God seems evil to us, which is the first commandment in the Ten that Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy (like the other nine) we all must make choices. . .

Joh 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of [b]the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

 

[Studyman]

2. Claim:​

Paul says we are judged according to our deeds, therefore salvation depends on obedience.

Response:
Romans 2:6–11 is not teaching salvation by works; it describes God’s perfect standard of judgment that no one meets.
Paul uses this to lead his readers to the conclusion in Romans 3:20 —

Again, this world's religious system promotes a philosophy that is exposed by the Holy Scriptures as untrue.

Just as they teach there is no difference between the "works" of rebellious Jews and the "works" of the Church of God, they also promote the falsehood that there isn't any difference between the "Works" of God, and the "Works" of man.

Paul says that the true Church of God, "created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that "we should walk" in them."

These are not the "Works" of men, but the "works" of God. Jesus said to "Seek the Righteousness of God" not the Righteousness of men. He said men are to "Live By" the Words of God, not the words of men.

The deceiver would have us believe that if I "Yield myself" to God, and submit to His Righteousness, as instructed, that I am trying to earn salvation by "my own works". Jesus saw this popular religious philosophy coming, and prepared me for it in the Holy Scriptures.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as "he is righteous".

And again"

1 John 2: 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that "saith" he abideth in him ought himself "also so to walk", even as "he walked".

Paul teaches that we are to "LABOR" to enter this "Walk", which is the perfection even of our Father which is in heaven..

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we "must all appear" before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by "patient continuance in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

This was Paul's the Gospel of Christ that Paul taught, and the perfection Jesus commanded, that HE pressed towards.

Philp. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God (which is) in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Probably one of, if not the most deceitful and insidious falsehoods being promoted by this world's religious system, is that we have no responsibility or accountability for the choices that we make in this life. That we can create and live by our own judgments, high days, definition of Holy, Righteous and clean, and still enter the Kingdom of Heaven, as long as we do these things "in Christ's Name".

Paul doesn't teach this philosophy at all. Just as he and David don't promote the philosophy that "there is none that seek God".

My hope is that maybe a person might set popular religious philosophy aside, and consider what is actually written in Scriptures.

The “judgment by works” principle shows that God’s judgment is righteous and impartial — but it also proves that no one can attain eternal life through good deeds (Romans 3:9–12).

Paul isn't teaching that in Romans 3:9-12 at all. Please read Isaiah 1. This is a glimpse into the Pharisees religion so that you might come to understand Paul's teaching.. These men, who professed to know God, lived in rejection of God's Judgments, Laws and Commandments to the point of God calling them "Sodom". But every week, they would come to God and offer for their sins, the Blood of an innocent, unblemished Sacrifice, as per the Law. You can read it for yourself.

God told them the same thing is essence, the exact same thing Paul teaches.

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

In other words, as Paul teaches, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified "by faith" without the deeds of the law.

What is Faith?

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Paul teaches the exact same thing.

Rom. 2: 13 (For "not the hearers" of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Supporting texts:
Romans 4:4–5 — “To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Was Abraham under the Levitical Priesthood Laws requiring him to take a goat to the Levite Priest for justification? No, this Law wasn't even given to mankind until 430 years after him. Was HE told to cut skin off his penis before God would accept him? No. He was accepted by God even before that instruction. But to interpret this as meaning that Abraham didn't Labor to be accepted by God is foolishness. Go read what Abraham did? And Paul isn't teaching any such thing.

Rom. 4: 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

But how do we know Abraham was fully persuaded?

Gen. 22: 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. (A Work God had instructed him to do.)

11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for "now I know" that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Why is this important?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Not the religious works, traditions, philosophies of man, but the "Good Works" that God before ordained that we should walk in them. As Paul teaches.

1 cor. 15: 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work "of the Lord", forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

• Titus 3:5 — “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.”

It is advantageous and prudent to consider all of a persons words, in order to understand their message.

Titus 3: 1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done,

There is no Law that can take away sins. If I kill someone, I am forever guilty. I can stop killing, and never kill again, yet I remain guilty. Only by the Mercy of a Power greater than me, can the penalty for this Sin be removed.

but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Nevertheless, if I continue killing, will I still receive the mercy?

Thus, Romans 2 is diagnostic, not prescriptive — it shows why grace is needed.

Grace is needed, because I rejected God's instruction. The implication that by "Grace" I am now allowed to continue living in rejection of God's Judgments, Statutes and Commandments, is foolishness. Paul teaches just the opposite in Rom. 2.

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[fhansen]

Except your interpretation.

Except that my interpretation happens to be correct, and aligned with Christianity as always understood and taught.

You're making faith be the end rather than the foundation of our salvation. We're saved by grace, with grace being the doorway to both faith and the works that God has prepared for us in advance. Faith justifies us, by forgiving us of sin while giving us the power to overcome sin by the power of God, the Holy Spirit. This is the righteousness of God that fulfills the righteous requirements of the law, the law that only testifies to righteousness but cannot produce it, as only union with God can. Faith means union / relationship with God. And that relationship is the basis of authentic righteousness for man. Remain in it and you'll produce good fruit. Fail to produce good fruit, and you haven't remained in it, or even entered it possibly.

Abraham was justified by both his faith and his works according to James, And if you're one of his sheep, then you'll continue to listen to Him, and act upon his words. The ones who continue to do so, persevere to the end. The ones who don't, prove themselves to have been poor soil.