Israel and the New Covenant.

[childeye 2]

We already know how to love ourselves, by our own love, now that the love of God is given into us by the Holy Ghost we know how to love others as well, that was the purpose of the love of God shed into our hearts, not telling us, ( as we dont need to be told how to love ourselves) but so we feel love to all others as God does, and is not self seeking but is charity.


Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Romans 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Philippians 4:2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.

I agree we know how to love ourselves in the carnal sense, as in preferring that which comforts us and avoiding any discomfort. I agree that hope does NOT make me feel ashamed and I get joy just thinking about it. I therefore must agree that the love of God is in my heart through the Holy Spirit given to me. And I can definitely testify that His Love is not self-seeking and is charity, as you say.

However, I gave an example of where I'm driving and I got angry at another driver, and how The Holy Spirit spoke inside, and He basically told me to be patient. That's the short version of the event. That is to say He said much more than just that. So, I can't say He doesn't tell me how to Love others or that he doesn't convict me when I'm not loving others as myself. Does that happen to you?

 

[Abraham1st]

I agree we know how to love ourselves in the carnal sense, as in preferring that which comforts us and avoiding any discomfort. I agree that hope does NOT make me feel ashamed and I get joy just thinking about it. I therefore must agree that the love of God is in my heart through the Holy Spirit given to me. And I can definitely testify that His Love is not self-seeking and is charity, as you say.

However, I gave an example of where I'm driving and I got angry at another driver, and how The Holy Spirit spoke inside, and He basically told me to be patient. That's the short version of the event. That is to say He said much more than just that. So, I can't say He doesn't tell me how to Love others or that he doesn't convict me when I'm not loving others as myself. Does that happen to you?

yes, we can have more told us why not, a word behind us telling us to the right side or the left, but we have love in us as Apostle did to show all he did for all in faith, with the Holy Spirit, so we cant testify about ourselves, but we share the scriptures as living example to everyone, if we are angry we did not cast it out, you have to remember that also, but there is a lot in a wicked world to make anger.


Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[childeye 2]

Why leave out the very verse that tells us what His commandments are? OK. Well here it is. Thanks for sharing.


1 John 3:22-24
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Be blessed.

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. <-- whenever I see New I think of the New covenant.

2 John
1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.

5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

 

[Hentenza]

Not at all, nothing changed from my beliefs. But you are free to give me an example by my posts.

Before I answer the question on the 4th commandment (again) I am sure we have discussed this at length previously, who decides what is moral, us or God? Is something God deems as doing righteous moral?

God of course but remember that Jesus is God and His redemptive sacrifice totally fulfilled the law which included the 10 commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God of course but remember that Jesus is God and His redemptive sacrifice totally fulfilled the law which included the 10 commandments.

Yes, Jesus is God, no arguement here.

When you say Jesus fulfilled the law are you saying because Jesus kept the law, does it mean we can worship other gods now, vain His holy name, murder our neighbor and steal from them etc?

You never answered the question about is doing what God said is righteousness moral?

 

[childeye 2]

yes, we can have more told us why not,

YESSS!!

a word behind us telling us to the right side or the left, but we have love in us as Apostle did to show all he did for all in faith, with the Holy Spirit, so we cant testify about ourselves, but we share the scriptures as living example to everyone, if we are angry we did not cast it out, you have to remember that also, but there is a lot in a wicked world to make anger.

I find it comforting to be corrected by the comforter.

Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Excellent choice of scripture. The Holy Spirit instructs me in The Way.

Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Amen, For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Your post strengthened my confidence that I'm not crazy. Thank you for the edification.

 

[Hentenza]

Yes, Jesus is God, no arguement here.

When you say Jesus fulfilled the law are you saying because Jesus kept the law, does it mean we can worship other gods now, vain His holy name, murder our neighbor and steal from them etc?

Those are moral laws but now we are convicted by the Spirit rather than the law itself.

You never answered the question about is doing what God said it righteousness moral?

Jesus changed the 4th commandment and it is no longer kept as It was given to Israel because Jesus is now the Lord of the sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Those are moral laws but now we are convicted by the Spirit rather than the law itself.

So the Holy Spirit doesn’t convict us of sin? John 16:8 Sin is breaking God’s law 1John3:4

Jesus changed the 4th commandment and it is no longer kept as It was given to Israel because Jesus is now the Lord of the sabbath.

So you are not going to answer my other questions. That’s okay.

Basically I think what you are trying to say is Christians should keep 9 of the Ten Commandments forgetting the one commandment God said Remember. That’s strange. Or are you saying Christians don’t keep any of the Ten Commandments and we can worship others gods and steal from our neighbors. You said Jesus fufilled the law- does that mean we don’t have to keep them,. Were the Ten Commandments ever written as optional choice or the Ten recommendations or pick the ones we agree with?


Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law- not a jot or tittle. Jesus has always been the Lord of the Sabbath because He is the Creator of the Sabbath Exo20:11 and everything. Col 1:16 so thats not new.

According to His own words its was given to mankind and everyone. It started at Creation when there was just man and God. Exo20:11

Made for man Mark 2:27 and the Greek word Jesus used means mankind, the Hebrew word means Adam.

And for everyone who joins themself to God. I know I want to join myself to God and love Him and serve Him. He said its for everyone. I think we should believe Him and trust He knows what’s best for us.


Isa 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

There was always a provision in the Sabbath commandment it was for everyone

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I can see why the devil hates God’s Sabbath. It’s the sign of His sanctification Eze20:12 because man regardless how one tries can’t santify themslves Isa66:17 and a sign between God and His people Ezekiel 20:20

So I pray you can see from these very clear passages all spoken from the mouth of God directly who the Sabbath was made for.

 

[Hentenza]

So the Holy Spirit doesn’t convict us of sin? John 16:8 Sin is breaking God’s law 1John3:4

Read my post again. I said “Those are moral laws but now we are convicted by the Spirit rather than the law itself.” Did I say that we are or are not convicted by the Spirit? Are we now convicted by the Spirit or by the law? Is a two option question so choose one.

So you are not going to answer the questions. Basically I think what you are trying to say if Christians should keep 9 of the Ten Commandments forgetting the one commandment God said Remember. That’s strange.

And you are not going to address what I wrote.

Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law- not a jot or tittle. Jesus has always been the Lord of the Sabbath because He is the Creator it is an everything. Col 1:16 so thats not new.

Right and He changed the commandment which He can. The creator is grater than the creation. As Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus had the right, power, and authority to dispense it in any way He pleased. The Lord of the Sabbath had come, and with His death and resurrection He became the fulfillment of our “Sabbath rest.” The salvation we have in Christ has made the old law of the Sabbath no longer needed or binding. When Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27), Jesus was attesting to the fact that, just as the Sabbath day was originally instituted to give man rest from his labors, so did He come to provide us rest from laboring to achieve our own salvation by our works. Because of His sacrifice on the cross, we can now forever cease laboring to attain God’s favor and rest in His mercy and grace. You can’t have it both ways, either keeping the Sabbath as given to Israel is necessary for salvation or it is not? This is another 2 option question choose one.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Read my post again. I said “Those are moral laws but now we are convicted by the Spirit rather than the law itself.” Did I say that we are or are not convicted by the Spirit? Are we now convicted by the Spirit or by the law? Is a two option question so choose one.

What does the Holy Spirit convicts us of?

John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness (Psa 119:172) , and of judgment Rev11:18-19 Ecc12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15 James 2:11-12


1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

You can find the rest of what He said Exo 20:1-17

And you are not going to address what I wrote.

Right and He changed the commandment which He can. The creator is grater than the creation. As Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus had the right, power, and authority to dispense it in any way He pleased. The Lord of the Sabbath had come, and with His death and resurrection He became the fulfillment of our “Sabbath rest.” The salvation we have in Christ has made the old law of the Sabbath no longer needed or binding. When Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27), Jesus was attesting to the fact that, just as the Sabbath day was originally instituted to give man rest from his labors, so did He come to provide us rest from laboring to achieve our own salvation by our works. Because of His sacrifice on the cross, we can now forever cease laboring to attain God’s favor and rest in His mercy and grace. You can’t have it both ways, either keeping the Sabbath as given to Israel is necessary for salvation or it is not? This is another 2 option question choose one.

We can go off what ifs all we want and live by it or we can seek the Testimony of God and what He has to say on this matter

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

Mat 5: 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one [b]jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Jesus never turned into a commandment or a day, The commandments were given to us to keep. Rev 14:12 Not something given to Himself. Nor did Jesus ever teach not to keep the Sabbath. He taught its lawful to do good on the Sabbath, meaning its still law and it can still be profaned Mat12:12 He taught the Sabbath would be kept decades after His cross for His faithful Mat 24:20 and taught it will be kept for all flesh (His saints) for eternity Isa 66:23

I do not want to get too far in the Sabbath debate on this forum. Most of your post has been addressed here link below, so please move all Sabbath related questions to this forum so we can keep on topic of this thread and inline with the forum rules for this area of the forum. Thanks

What is Christ's rest?

Christ said: Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Many believe and teach...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Hentenza]

What does the Holy Spirit convicts us of?

John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
1John3:4

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

You can find the rest of what He said Exo 20:1-17

We can go off what ifs all we want and live by it or we can seek the Testimony of God and what He has to say on this matter

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

The rest of your commentary is not found in our Bibles. Jesus never turned into a commandment or a day, The commandments were given to us to keep. Not something given to Himself. I know this is a popular teaching and I do not want to get too far in the Sabbath debate on this forum.

This has been addressed here so please move all Sabbath related questions to this forum so we can keep on topic of this thread and inline with the forum rules for this area of the forum. Thanks

What is Christ's rest?

Christ said: Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Many believe and teach...

www.christianforums.com

So when you said in your post that I quoted in my post 129 that “The commandments are kept as a result of salvation, not a means to it.” you are really just blowing smoke. To you the 4th commandment is necessary for salvation so you are back to promoting the law. I doubt it very much that God will say “you kept my sabbath on Sunday instead of a Saturday so you are going to hell”. Legalism is a “does not follow” fallacy.

BTW- I’ll post where I want to post.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So when you said in post 129 that “The commandments are kept as a result of salvation, not a means to it.” you are really just blowing smoke.

Not at all, keeping the Sabbath is not going to save me or anyone, just like not killing anyone is going to save me or anyone. We are only saved by grace through faith. But unlike some teach, faith does not void the law, it establishes it, so someone with faith is going to hear His voice, follow Him and do what He says. Someone in rebellion will not subject themselves to God’s laws Rom8:7-8. Keeping God’s commandments is a result of salvation, not a means to it.

To you the 4th commandment is necessary for salvation so you are back to promoting the law. I doubt it very much that God will say “you kept my sabbath on Sunday instead of a Saturday so you are going to hell”. Legalism is a “does not follow” fallacy.

The Sabbath is no different than the commandment to only worship Him, or not murder our neighbor. Came from the same unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 That this unit of Ten sits under God’s mercy seat where He says Exo20:6 , it is God’s spoken and written Testimony. Exo 31:18 He won’t force us to keep His commandments but one will do so through faith and love 1John5:3 John14:15 Isa 56:6 Rev14:12 and this faith reconciles us Rev22:14

BTW- I’ll post where I want to post.

You might want to read the forums rules for posting here, but suit yourself.

 

[Hentenza]

Not at all, keeping the Sabbath is not going to save me or anyone, just like not killing anyone is going to save me or anyone. We are only saved by grace through faith. But unlike some teach, faith does not void the law, it establishes it, so someone with faith is going to hear His voice, follow Him and do what He says. Someone in rebellion will not subject themselves to God’s laws Rom8:7-8. Keeping God’s commandments is a result of salvation, not a means to it.

The sabbath is not a moral commandment and one that Jesus changed.

The Sabbath is no different than the commandment to only worship Him, or not murder our neighbor. Came from the same unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 That this unit of Ten sits under God’s mercy seat where He says Exo20:6 , it is God’s spoken and written Testimony. Exo 31:18 He won’t force us to keep His commandments but one will do so through faith and love 1John5:3 John14:15 Isa 56:6 Rev14:12 and this faith reconciles us Rev22:14

But it s different. I showed you already.

You might want to read the forums rules for posting here, but suit yourself.

I helped write them so I know them well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The sabbath is not a moral commandment and one that Jesus changed.

Your words not God’s. Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 Isa 56:1-6 Psa 119:172 Isa66:23

I can’t separate God’s righteousness from God’s morality and I think trying to do so, essentially makes one their own god. I think its best we let God be God and depend on what He deems as righteous, not us.

Guess we are back to where we started, agree to disagree. Guess everything will get sorted out soon enough. Be well.

 

[Hentenza]

Your words not God’s. Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 Isa 56:1-6

Not my words.

“And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 6:5 And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not my words.

“And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 6:5 And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

And He was saying to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

Yes, Jesus is Lord OF the Sabbath, the Creator, not that He morphed into the Sabbath commandment or day i.e. creation. Doesn’t say anything that God changed the Sabbath. He already made His promises Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 , its up to believe them or not

 

[Clare73]

The only way we are part of God's Israel is through faith.

The only way we are part of God's Israel is through faith in Christ (Jn 3:18).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The only way we are part of God's Israel is through faith.

Yes, agreed, thats stated in the OP

 

[Clare73]

Yes, agreed, thats stated in the OP

Misrepresentation through omission of part of my statement in regard to Christ.
Not a good look. . .

There is no being a part of Israel apart from faith in Christ (Jn 3:18).

Is Jn 3:18 a problem for you?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Misrepresentation through omission of part of my statement in regard to Christ.
Not a good look. . .

There is no being a part of Israel apart from faith in Christ (Jn 3:18).

Is Jn 3:18 a problem for you?

What other faith is there? Where did I say I have a problem with John3:16 I hit reply to your post it wasn't there when I did so.

Looking for things to accuse others, is not a good look, not the spirit we want to follow. Rev12:10

Take care