Israel and the New Covenant.

[Abraham1st]

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Thats right. God took His laws from tables of stone to tablets of the heart, the New Covenant Heb8:10. The placement changed, not the words God keeping His promises Psa89:34 Mat5:18 based on what He will do Heb8:10 through our faith and love John14:15-18 John15:10 Rev 14:12 which reconciles us Rev22:14

Why its sin to break the least of these commandments in the NC and one would be in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30 1John3:4 James 2:11 Rom7:7

the stone was needed because men had to see it, thats not faith, now we dont need to see it, we believe in our heart that God raised Christ from the dead to be saved.

 

[Abraham1st]

I've stated quite a few times now, MORAL law and not the Jewish religious law. Saying anything other than that is bearing a false testimony.

you can still go to the Jews in the land of Israel, they have the law, they will know which law is which.

 

[Delvianna]

you can still go to the Jews in the land of Israel, they have the law, they will know which law is which.

Conflating the two which I've argued against multiple times now.

 

[childeye 2]

So in essence, you define your own morality.

No, I'm saying that objectively the term morality implies a goodness.

If I don't care about someones life, I can end it and I'm morally sound to do so but your own logic.

That's not my logic. I said that if I don't care I'm not morally sound, I'm immoral.

Feelings aren't the defining factor of moral law.

God is LOVE, so yes God defines what is right and wrong behavior.

Proverbs 14:12:
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death"

Jeremiah 17:9:
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it?"

Proverbs 3:5-6:
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.

Exactly, just like I said, it is God who sanctifies me.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Delvianna]

No, I'm saying that objectively the term morality implies a goodness.

That's not my logic. I said that if I don't care I'm not morally sound, I'm immoral.

God is LOVE, so yes God defines what is right and wrong behavior.

Exactly, just like I said, it is God who sanctifies me.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

So do you think God's moral law is different than what he's already supplied? And I'm referring to the 10 commandments only. I'm failing to understand what you mean then because it sounds like you do away with what God has already established and accept what he personally tells you which can be a problem when you're trying to test the spirits to know what is from God and what isn't.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

the stone was needed because men had to see it, thats not faith, now we dont need to see it, we believe in our heart that God raised Christ from the dead to be saved.

Paul needed to see it, are you saying Paul didn't have faith?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

if we do not have God's laws written in our hearts, who are we serving? Theres only two choices. Rom6:16 Mat12:30

 

[childeye 2]

That love of God shed in our heart by the Spirit, is God living in us and we being HIs temple, we dont need to be told how to love others, we have believed, but we can be further guided by chastening and afflictions and by hope.

The devil often uses semantics to cause division. I'm saying that the distinction should be made that in the New Covenant we don't need the letter of the law telling us how to love others as a tutor, but we do need the Holy Spirit telling us how to Love others as ourselves.

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[childeye 2]

So do you think God's moral law is different than what he's already supplied? And I'm referring to the 10 commandments only.

To avoid the semantics of the devil I would say it this way --> The morality/righteousness/goodness of God is greater than the righteousness of the ten commandments.

I'm failing to understand what you mean then because it sounds like you do away with what God has already established and accept what he personally tells you which can be a problem when you're trying to test the spirits to know what is from God and what isn't.

First let me state that I don't think I'm failing to understand what you mean. To me your words express a concern that I am engaging in what is often articulated as moral relativism which many take to mean NOT the straight and Narrow.

But what I mean is that God has shown me that I would become an abomination apart from His Spirit. I'm saying HIS SPIRIT is LOVE and without His Spirit we cannot even do the elementary righteousness of the ten commandments, much less walk in The Way that IS God.

As to your concern, I agree that one's love can be misguided through belief in misinformation/disinformation/a lie, particularly the lie that LOVE is a choice/decision MADE BY THE CREATURE, rather than --> LOVE IS THE SPIRIT of GOD THE CREATOR.

Romans 1
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

According to Scripture God's laws makes up God's character. So if God is telling us what is righteous Psa 119:172 which means moral, and His laws reflect His character, which we are to become like the character of God. Either we have His character written in our minds and hearts, or we are serving another master. Rom6:16

If we are removing God's laws from our hearts and minds, which reflects the character of God- whose character are we replacing His with.


God is Good:
Luke 18:19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God

God’s law is Good:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Holy:
Isaiah 5:16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment,
And God who is holy shall be hallowed in righteousness.

God’s law is Holy:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Just:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

God’s laws are Just: Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Perfect:
Mathew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

God’s law is Perfect:
Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

God is Love
1 John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

God's law is Love:
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

God is Righteous
Exodus 9:27 2 And Pharaoh sent and called for Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “I have sinned this time. The Lord is righteous, and my people and I are wicked.

God’s laws are Righteous
Psalms 19:9 The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever. The decrees of the LORD are firm, and all of them are righteous.
Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness.

God is Truth:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

God’s law is Truth:
Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalms 119:151 You are near, O LORD, And all Your commandments are truth.

God is Pure:
1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

God’s laws are Pure:
Psalms 19:8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;

God is Spiritual:
John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

God’s law is Spiritual:
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God is Unchangeable:
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God’s laws are Unchangeable:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

God is Eternal
Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

God’s laws are Eternal
Psalms 111:7,8 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, And are done in truth and uprightness

 

[Delvianna]

The morality/righteousness of God is greater than the righteousness of the ten commandments.

Where does it say anything like that in scripture?

is often articulated as moral relativism.

How isn't it? God has more attributes than Love and in revelation he says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent." Revelation 3:19 He is also a God of justice (Psalm 89:14) and is a judge (Psalm 75:7). There has to be some sort of law or standard in order to judge to begin with. What standard is he judging us against? So to say his morality is greater than the 10 commandments when he himself gave the 10 commandments, doesn't make any sense. God's standard is perfection, but what does that look like? If you have no idea what is right and what is wrong, then there is no frame of reference to even say if you're righteous or not. That's why he gave us a moral law. So we could reference our thoughts and actions to see if it aligns with God or not. And when we are judged, we can't say we didn't know what his rules were because he gave them to us to begin with.

So if an angel comes to me and says, "God says it's totally fine to fantasize sexually about someone because you aren't actually doing anything," by the rules in place and the standard God set, I can go to scripture and know that isn't true. I know what is wrong because God told us what is wrong. I have to know what is wrong in the first place in order to realize I'm dammed to hell without God.

 

[childeye 2]

Where does it say anything like that in scripture?

Matthew 5:21-22
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

How isn't it? God has more attributes than Love and in revelation he says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent." Revelation 3:19 He is also a God of justice (Psalm 89:14) and is a judge (Psalm 75:7). There has to be some sort of law or standard in order to judge to begin with. What standard is he judging us against?

Jesus said we will be judged by what measure we use to judge others.

So to say his morality is greater than the 10 commandments when he himself gave the 10 commandments, doesn't make any sense. God's standard is perfection, but what does that look like?

Well consider that the depth of God's Love was to suffer the sins of crucifixion, being stripped naked and mocked, and scorned, beaten, and scourged; yet he prayed to the Father that He forgive those whose sins he bore on his cross. <--This is a depth of Love that is far greater than "DON'T STEAL".

If you have no idea what is right and what is wrong, then there is no frame of reference to even say if you're righteous or not. That's why he gave us a moral law. So we could reference our thoughts and actions to see if it aligns with God or not. And when we are judged, we can't say we didn't know what his rules were because he gave them to us to begin with.

Yes, this above is true, and it is also why the law condemns us all as worthy of death and is a testimony against us, particularly as far as believing we can be made righteous according to our own carnal efforts to perform the law.

So if an angel comes to me and says, "God says it's totally fine to fantasize sexually about someone because you aren't actually doing anything," by the rules in place and the standard God set, I can go to scripture and know that isn't true. I know what is wrong because God told us what is wrong. I have to know what is wrong in the first place in order to realize I'm dammed to hell without God.

God made male and female able to join and become one. There is a spirit of uncleanness that mankind was given over to, that lives in us through vain imaginings and manifest lusts in the flesh accordingly. The law cannot restore the virtue that is God's Spirit that keeps such lusts under control, but the Holy Spirit can.

 

[Delvianna]

Matthew 5:21-22
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Please explain to me how these verses = "The morality/righteousness of God is greater than the righteousness of the ten commandments." How are those verses that you referenced greater or superior than the 10 commandments?

Jesus said we will be judged by what measure we use to judge others.

The verse you're eluding to is talking about hypocritical judgement. The bible also says:
John 7:24 (Jesus speaking): "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

1 Corinthians 5:12–13 (Paul addressing the church): "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. 'Purge the evil person from among you.'"

Leviticus 19:15: "You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor."

But my question and points were about God being the judge TO us, not about us judging others.

Well consider that the depth of God's Love was to suffer the sins of crucifixion, being stripped naked and mocked, and scorned, beaten, and scourged; yet he prayed to the Father that He forgive those whose sins he bore on his cross. <--This is a depth of Love that is far greater than "DON'T STEAL".

What does that have to do with God being a judge and morality? If you're arguing that God's love gets rid of morality arguments, then you would have to say that ALL the verses that talk about us being judged on the last day don't apply. Just because God loves, doesn't mean he does away with justice.

Yes, this above is true, and it is also why the law condemns us all as worthy of death and is a testimony against us, particularly as far as believing we can be made righteous according to our own carnal efforts to perform the law.

So you agree that there HAS to be a moral law then, which goes against your point that somehow, something else (God's love) supersedes the law, if by your own statement it is a testimony "against" us. God's love doesn't supersede his own law. God didn't abolish his own Jewish law, he fulfilled the requirements. So the same argument can be applied as a means of the moral law. He didn't abolish the moral law either. That means the law is still in place and if it's still in place, Jesus himself said if you love him, you will follow his commandments (aka, moral law).

 

[Hentenza]

According to Scripture God's laws makes up God's character. So if God is telling us what is righteous Psa 119:172 which means moral, and His laws reflect His character, which we are to become like the character of God. Either we have His character written in our minds and hearts, or we are serving another master. Rom6:16

If we are removing God's laws from our hearts and minds, which reflects the character of God- whose character are we replacing His with.


God is Good:
Luke 18:19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God

God’s law is Good:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Holy:
Isaiah 5:16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment,
And God who is holy shall be hallowed in righteousness.

God’s law is Holy:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Just:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

God’s laws are Just: Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Perfect:
Mathew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

God’s law is Perfect:
Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

God is Love
1 John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

God's law is Love:
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

God is Righteous
Exodus 9:27 2 And Pharaoh sent and called for Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “I have sinned this time. The Lord is righteous, and my people and I are wicked.

God’s laws are Righteous
Psalms 19:9 The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever. The decrees of the LORD are firm, and all of them are righteous.
Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness.

God is Truth:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

God’s law is Truth:
Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalms 119:151 You are near, O LORD, And all Your commandments are truth.

God is Pure:
1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

God’s laws are Pure:
Psalms 19:8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;

God is Spiritual:
John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

God’s law is Spiritual:
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God is Unchangeable:
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God’s laws are Unchangeable:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

God is Eternal
Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

God’s laws are Eternal
Psalms 111:7,8 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, And are done in truth and uprightness

And the law is not part of the Christian faith. If you are in the law then you are not in Christ. You are trying to put the monkey of the law back in the Christian’s back.

The law is weak.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

We are put to death with regards to the law. We belong to Christ. We are RELEASED from the law.

“Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were brought to light by the Law, were at work in the parts of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:4-6 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that

bible.com

If you follow the law you are cursed.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download

For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM.”

bible.com

The law does not justify.

“Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭11‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:11-12 Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS ONE WILL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “THE PERSON WHO PERFORMS THEM WILL LIVE | New American Standard Bible -

Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS ONE WILL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “THE PERSON WHO PERFORMS THEM WILL LIVE

bible.com

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law.

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:13-14 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come | New American Standard Bible -

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come

bible.com

The law remains for Israel until the remnant of Israel repents. The Christian is NOT under the law. End Stop.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And the law is not part of the Christian faith. If you are in the law then you are not in Christ. You are trying to put the monkey of the law back in the Christian’s back.

The law is weak.

It’s a matter of not understanding the Scriptures And I’ll prove that from the passage you posted

Paul said the law is holy, righteous and good. Rom7:12

Is God’s holiness, righteousness and goodness weak? Do you really want to stick with that narrative?

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh,

If reading in context and Paul is tricky to understand, but it doesn’t say the law is weak, it says its weak THROUGH THE FLESH meaning in our strength. When are we ever not to be holy, righteous or good. The devil always flips things and sad this is such a popular teaching.

God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 8:1-4 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c

bible.com

What law is Paul referring to? He tells us. The law of SIN and DEATH- the wages of Sin (breaking God's law is death Rom6:23)

What is happening to those who walk in the Spirit according to Paul?

that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled (keeping) in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”

The right doing of the law is FULFILLED in us to those who walk according to the Spirit. Rom7:22 For I delight in the law of Godaccording to the inward man

What is the Spirit doing in us according to Jesus to those who love Him?

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you

What does Paul say in Romans is someone who is walking in the flesh (obeying the law of sin)

Romans 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then,those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if we are not subjecting ourselves to God's laws, we are not in a covenant relationship with God. This is what is called sin, disobedience and rebellion what He is trying to get our attention on if we hear Him Heb 3:7-19

We are put to death with regards to the law. We belong to Christ. We are RELEASED from the law.

“Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were brought to light by the Law, were at work in the parts of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:4-6 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that

bible.com

You need to keep reading, Paul is talking about the struggle of the flesh verse serving the law of God, which he finishes his thoughts and how we win the war on flesh. Paul is not advocating to sin Rom7:7 and be an enmity to God which he relates to those who refuse to subject themselves to the law of God Rom8:7-8 which is walking in flesh and cannot please God Rom8:8

If you follow the law you are cursed.

“For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download

For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM.”

bible.com

Thats not at all what this verse says. It’s scary what people come up with. You flipped the narrative, when Paul didn’t. He was quoting OT.

“Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.””

The wages of sin is death the curse of the law Rom 6:23 there is no curse if one is abiding in Christ obeying His commandments through His Spirit John 14:15-18. This is what reconciles us Rev 22:14 verses being separated Isa 59:2 and outside God’s kingdom Rev22:15 (the curse)

The law does not justify.

“Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭11‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:11-12 Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS ONE WILL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “THE PERSON WHO PERFORMS THEM WILL LIVE | New American Standard Bible -

Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS ONE WILL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “THE PERSON WHO PERFORMS THEM WILL LIVE

bible.com

No Jesus does, the law shows us our sins so we do not depend on our version of right doing but on God‘s Rom3:20 Rom7:7 Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142 We are justified by faith, faith does not void the law Rom3:31 Rev 14:12

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law.

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:13-14 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come | New American Standard Bible -

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come

bible.com

Amen, I would recommend prayerfully reading the Scriptures in the OP because it very clearly says our branch can be cut off to by our unbelief, which is rebellion, sin and disobedience

The law remains for Israel until the remnant of Israel repents.

It’s a matter of not understanding Israel, which is explained in the OP through Scripture.

The Christian is NOT under the law. End Stop.

We are not under the condemnation of the law if we are in Christ. Those abiding in Christ are they rebelling and sinning? Jesus answers this, many believe in Jesus but do not have the faith of Jesus which is demonstrated through His life and teachings. John 14:15 Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat5:19-30 John 15:10 Mat19:17-18 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14. How does one profess faith in Jesus but not want to follow His example 1 John 2:6 John 15:10 or follow His teachings. Isolating a verse or two from its context is not understanding and doing the will of God. I guess God will sort this out in His time.

 

[childeye 2]

Please explain to me how these verses = "The morality/righteousness of God is greater than the righteousness of the ten commandments." How are those verses that you referenced greater or superior than the 10 commandments?

Not getting angry is greater than not murdering. Not looking so as to lust is greater than not actually having intercourse outside of marriage.
The same way that sacrificing of one's own self out of love to give to the poor is a greater righteousness than not stealing.

Moreover, God's righteousness is not subject to the law, because HIS SPIRIT/CHARACTER is THE WAY.

The verse you're eluding to is talking about hypocritical judgement. The bible also says:
John 7:24 (Jesus speaking): "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

1 Corinthians 5:12–13 (Paul addressing the church): "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. 'Purge the evil person from among you.'"

Leviticus 19:15: "You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor."

But my question and points were about God being the judge TO us, not about us judging others.

Well, we're all condemned as worthy of death through the works of the law. So, in that sense we've all been judged. Our hope is now in God's mercy according to His promise to Abraham, that God as Creator can make us who were dead in sins a New Creation.

Jesus is conveying that God will be a judge TO US according to what measure we use TO OTHERS, and he even qualifies it by saying the merciful will receive mercy. This implies that we're forgiven even as we forgive others. <--This is just judgement according to love others as you would want to be loved.

What does that have to do with God being a judge and morality?

The question I'm answering is how the righteousness of God is greater than the righteousness of the law. The High Priest conspired to have Jesus killed. What I wrote is meant to show that the righteousness of The Christ was to forgive those who did great sin unto him --> on account that they know not what they do.

Where in the law does it contain this righteousness that would require us to allow others to crucify us and that we should forgive them?
You should be asking is, why did Jesus say they knew not what they were doing when they knew the law said thou shalt not murder?

If you're arguing that God's love gets rid of morality arguments, then you would have to say that ALL the verses that talk about us being judged on the last day don't apply. Just because God loves, doesn't mean he does away with justice.

He has a purpose to put in order the Kingdom of God from the first to the last. I believe the judgement is like a race where the fastest to the slowest are already at the starting line, and the race exists only to show who they are. That is, the greatest are those who serves the rest.

So you agree that there HAS to be a moral law then, which goes against your point that somehow, something else (God's love) supersedes the law, if by your own statement it is a testimony "against" us.

I agree there has to be a law that condemns us all to death to make the point that God intends to save through grace and mercy, lest we say or even think we deserved or earned the right to Eternal Life. <-- When we realize that God gave us over to the lust of the flesh because the creature counted HIS attributes as their own and became vain to begin with, then we can see why He does it this way. Which is described well in these verses: 1 Corinthians 1

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

God's love doesn't supersede his own law. God didn't abolish his own Jewish law, he fulfilled the requirements. So the same argument can be applied as a means of the moral law. He didn't abolish the moral law either. That means the law is still in place and if it's still in place, Jesus himself said if you love him, you will follow his commandments (aka, moral law).

God preceded the law and preceded the knowledge of good and evil. God's Love is the Eternal Power and The Way. His Love does supersede His own law even because His righteousness is far and away greater than the righteousness of the law made for sinners.

For example, the promise was made BEFORE the law was given. God KNEW in His foreknowledge He would reveal His righteousness through the self-sacrificing Love of the lamb of God. So of course, Jesus as the Lamb without blemish would meet the righteous requirement of the Old Testament because the promise of the New Testament is in His Blood.

1 Corinthians 2:6-8
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[Delvianna]

Not getting angry is greater than not murdering.

How... how is that possible? So, if I don't get angry at someone because they messed up cooking dinner, that is morally better than me not deciding to stab someone to death because they hurt my cat? I'm genuinely flabbergasted at this.

Moreover, God's righteousness is not subject to the law, because HIS SPIRIT/CHARACTER is THE WAY.

So... God created different rules for us, that he doesn't follow then? No where in the bible does it say this or anything remotely close.

So, in that sense we've all been judged.

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books." - Revelation 20:11-12

That's at the end... We have not been judged yet.

God's Love is the Eternal Power and His Love does supersede His own law even because His righteousness is far and away greater than the righteousness of the law.

"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.- Romans 13:8-10

Something cannot be "greater" if it "fulfills". Also, the definition of righteousness is following the law, so I think you're a little bit confused when you use these words. Your statement doesn't make sense when you understand the word definitions. You're essentially saying, "Him following His law is way greater than following the law."

A lot of your arguments aren't backed up by scripture and you're taking verses to try and apply them to your argument which is going WAY off course to the point of the verse and the point of what is being discussed. If God gives you revelation about anything what-so-ever, it would be backed up by scripture, not be in contradiction to it but your statements contradict scripture and the point and/or message of what the writer is talking about. As an example, You use 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 which the point is, that we don't need to go based off of our own wisdom, but we now have the spirit which gives us wisdom through Christ. But you use that to argue that: "God KNEW in His foreknowledge He would reveal His righteousness through the self-sacrificing Love of the lamb of God."

1 Corinthians = Wisdom because of Christ
You = Righteousness revealed through Christ

See how the topics don't connect? This is a prime example of pulling verses out of context. You're trying to use that verse out of context to push something that the bible does NOT say and the point/purpose of your arguments have no biblical backing either. I suggest, and I say this whole heartedly, that you sit back down and re-think over all of your stances and make sure they fit the context of the verses you're using to back up your beliefs because I think the enemy is having his way with you and twisting scripture to "enlighten" you about stuff that is very very off course. I'm not saying that to be mean, or self-righteous, I'm genuinely concerned based off of what you have shared.

 

[Hentenza]

It’s a matter of not understanding the Scriptures And I’ll prove that from the passage you posted

Paul said the law is holy, righteous and good. Rom7:12

Is God’s holiness, righteousness and goodness weak? Do you really want to stick with that narrative?

Definitely. Let’s take it in context. In your interpretation Paul is wrong on the verses that you don’t like but right in the verses that you like. That is quite the tension you are putting the scriptures to.

“Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

[notice that my brothers and sisters (Christian believers) have also (as Christ in the cross) in regard to the law. The Christians are no longer under the law. We now belong to another not to the law.]

For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were brought to light by the Law, were at work in the parts of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
[The law served only when we were in the flesh, ie in our sins. Christ died on the cross for the sins of the world. Through His sacrifice we are justified which means to make righteous. So we, the Christian has been released from the law. Again, we are no longer under the law.]

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? Far from it! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

[Paul was tempted by the law to commit sin. Paul could not stop sinning. Apart from the law sin is dead. Paul needed a savior]

I was once alive apart from the Law;

[But Paul was a very learned Jew who persecuted the church so how could he have been alive apart from the law? ]


but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;

[so the commandment which was supposed to be good resulted in his death because of sin because the law tempted Paul to commit sin as he stated above.]


for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it, killed me. So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.”

[so yes, the law is indeed righteous and good because without it Christ sacrifice for the sins of the world would not have been needed. The law exposed and tempted sin and men could not follow the law perfectly so they remained in their sin.]

‭‭Romans‬ ‭7‬:‭4‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 7:4-12 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that | New American Standard Bible - NAS

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you also were put to death in regard to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that

bible.com

[annotations and commentary mine]

According to the verses in context we are not under the law because of Christ redemptive powerful sacrifice. This matches with what Paul teaches at the beginning of charter 8 which, btw, begins with “therefore” denoting a conclusion from the discussion in chapter 7.

If reading in context and I understand Paul is tricky to understand, but it doesn’t say the law is weak, it says its weak THROUGH THE FLESH meaning in our strength. When are we ever not to be holy, righteous or good. The devil always flips things and sad this is such a popular teaching.

Paul is only tricky to understand for those who are forcing an interpretation that does not match with their argument. In this case you are trying to prove that the Christian is still under the law but Paul destroys this argument.

Let’s start with this since you did not directly address the other verses that I posted.

 

[pasifika]

Yes the allegory of the two covenants, one came by flesh, what man did, like when Sarah took it upon herself to fill God's promise that He would make Abraham a great nation by conceiving a child with Hagar a bondwomen, versus allowing God do so by His promise through Sarah. The first covenant was based on the people doing Exo 19:8, verses the promise of what God will do Heb8:10. Why the NC is established on better promises Heb8:6

Yes the first covenant is based on the 10 commandments as you quoted from Ex 19:8.