Trump Orders Flags to Half-Staff for Charlie Kirk

[Desk trauma]

Eyeroll if you want lol...

The left canonized a career criminal who engaged in violence against women purely based on the nature of his death

This:
View attachment 370978

Shouldn't be seen as anymore ridiculous than this:

View attachment 370980

Both sides, got it, move along.

 

[Chesterton]

So, just so I'm clear on the rules...

You're suggesting that we should not, I repeat "NOT", be canonizing people simply based on the fact that they were wrongfully killed while ignoring the nature of their character while they were still alive?

So, for instance, if a guy had 4 felonies, and served 8 different jail sentences (including one for participating in an armed robbery of a woman), if he happens to die in a wrongful fashion due to police negligence/malice, that's not a good reason to have cities using public funds to commission murals of him with a halo and angels wings... am I understanding that correctly?

Plus have you seen those rainbow painted crosswalks in cities? You know what they're in honor of? They're honoring people for enjoying...well, I can't say what they enjoy, but it's not the kinds of things a reasonable person would think worth honoring.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Both sides, got it, move along.

No no...that's a cop out lol

Did the left, or did they not, canonize a career criminal simply based on the manner in which he died for political gain?

Move along to what?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Plus have you seen those rainbow painted crosswalks in cities? You know what they're in honor of? They're honoring people for enjoying...well, I can't say what they enjoy, but it's not the kinds of things a reasonable person would think worth honoring.

That doesn't really bother me as much lol, as that's not a double standard.

"I like to have sex with the kind of people I'm attracted to", while weird thing to celebrate and claim victim status for, isn't by itself a double standard.

People claiming they're disgusted by Charlie Kirk memorializing, while being completely on-board with celebrating Floyd and pretending he was a "hero" a few years ago, does represent a double standard.

Consistency is my big thing...


Certain people on here love to trot out the "both sides, yeah yeah" posts to get some cheap like reacts, but I'll be generous and chalk it up to a lack of self-awareness on their part lol.

 

[Desk trauma]

Move along to what?

Whatever thread you’re off to “buh bothsides!” next. Your works done here.

 

[RDKirk]

Eyeroll if you want lol...

The left canonized a career criminal who engaged in violence against women purely based on the nature of his death

This:
View attachment 370978

Shouldn't be seen as anymore ridiculous than this:

View attachment 370980


So which is it?

If someone is wrongly killed, does that make them a hero by default?

Or do we say "it's bad that a person got wrongfully killed, but that alone doesn't make them someone worthy of being celebrated"?

I do agree with that.

My wife agrees with that. My daughter agrees with that.

George Floyd's death needed to have been investigated.

But he should never have been lionized. My people are lost.

 

[Pommer]

Plus have you seen those rainbow painted crosswalks in cities? You know what they're in honor of? They're honoring people for enjoying...well, I can't say what they enjoy, but it's not the kinds of things a reasonable person would think worth honoring.

They are mostly to honor those who came before, who opened their hearts to the love they were given and were marginalized for, who mostly got on with the lives that they wanted to lead.

 

[Pommer]

I do agree with that.

My wife agrees with that. My daughter agrees with that.

George Floyd's death needed to have been investigated.

But he should never have been lionized. My people are lost.

My take was that even the people who aren’t exemplany members of the human race deserve better than this guy got!

Lionized?
More like The Man who Shot Liberty Valance, the mythicized truth is TheTruth®️, “was he a saint?“
No!, ?, it doesn't matter, even he deserved ”better.”

 

[Pommer]

Eyeroll if you want lol...

The left canonized a career criminal who engaged in violence against women purely based on the nature of his death

This:
View attachment 370978

Shouldn't be seen as anymore ridiculous than this:

View attachment 370980


So which is it?

If someone is wrongly killed, does that make them a hero by default?

Or do we say "it's bad that a person got wrongfully killed, but that alone doesn't make them someone worthy of being celebrated"?

How is a State honoring a person with naming a section of Highway after them in any way the equivalent of a sympathetic business owner who lets the youth group Donkeeboy/Donkeemom paint his building?

 

[FreeinChrist]

So, just so I'm clear on the rules...

You're suggesting that we should not, I repeat "NOT", be canonizing people simply based on the fact that they were wrongfully killed while ignoring the nature of their character while they were still alive?

So, for instance, if a guy had 4 felonies, and served 8 different jail sentences (including one for participating in an armed robbery of a woman), if he happens to die in a wrongful fashion due to police negligence/malice, that's not a good reason to have cities using public funds to commission murals of him with a halo and angels wings... am I understanding that correctly?

wow. I am on the left and I didn't paint some mural of Floyd with a halo and wings. Nor do I consider him a saint, per se. That is between him and God. He was certainly a flawed person. But if a city (as opposed to a federal government) voted to have a mural painted, that is their choice, right? Free speech, right? Or some business owner paid for it, it is his right, do you agree?

No one suggested his picture be on USA currency, or that should be a day of remembrance for him for the entire country to observe, and I don't think the flag was lowered to half mast for him.

Try not lumping all the people on the Left as one singular group responsible for what a city voted to do. That was their choice.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So, just so I'm clear on the rules...

There are rules?

You're suggesting that we should not, I repeat "NOT", be canonizing people simply based on the fact that they were wrongfully killed while ignoring the nature of their character while they were still alive?

Even more so, because they were despicable excuses for human beings, but no, being murdered doesn't get around that problem.

So, for instance, if a guy had 4 felonies, and served 8 different jail sentences (including one for participating in an armed robbery of a woman), if he happens to die in a wrongful fashion due to police negligence/malice, that's not a good reason to have cities using public funds to commission murals of him with a halo and angels wings... am I understanding that correctly?

Who here did that?

 

[RDKirk]

My take was that even the people who aren’t exemplany members of the human race deserve better than this guy got!

Lionized?
More like The Man who Shot Liberty Valance, the mythicized truth is TheTruth®️, “was he a saint?“
No!, ?, it doesn't matter, even he deserved ”better.”

There are statues erected to George Floyd. There is a street renamed for George Floyd.

 

[ranunculus]

There are statues erected to George Floyd. There is a street renamed for George Floyd.

But his body wasn't put on Air Force 2. The vice president didn't take over his podcast. A national annual holiday honoring him wasn't instituted. His likeness isn't on US currency.

George Floyd's death was symbolic for the system stepping on the necks of marginalized groups for ages. People don't honor him for whatever criminal activities he was involved in. It's because Floyd was killed by the system. Kirk was killed by a meme kid with a personal vendetta against him.

 

[RDKirk]

But his body wasn't put on Air Force 2. The vice president didn't take over his podcast. A national annual holiday honoring him wasn't instituted. His likeness isn't on US currency.

George Floyd's death was symbolic for the system stepping on the necks of marginalized groups for ages. People don't honor him for whatever criminal activities he was involved in. It's because Floyd was killed by the system. Kirk was killed by a meme kid with a personal vendetta against him.

I'm annoyed by the lionization of both of them, in both cases for political means to the utmost extent possible from the sides that are using them.

I don't give a vicious small dog moral credit because it can't maul me as badly as a vicious big dog.

The level of capability is different, but the immorality of the intent is the same.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

But if a city (as opposed to a federal government) voted to have a mural painted, that is their choice, right? Free speech, right? Or some business owner paid for it, it is his right, do you agree?

Sure, but then those who supported that shouldn't be eyerolling or suggesting it's "ridiculous" when conservative locales do it for one of their folk heroes.

No one suggested his picture be on USA currency, or that should be a day of remembrance for him for the entire country to observe, and I don't think the flag was lowered to half mast for him.

Some states certainly did.

https://mn.gov/governor/assets/George%20Floyd%20Remembrance%20Day_tcm1055-528799.pdf

There were jurisdictions that ordered the flags lowered:

Jurisdiction	Details
Oregon	Governor Kate Brown ordered all state flags lowered from 11 a.m. until sunset on June 4, 2020. (opb)
New Mexico	Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham ordered state flags to fly half-staff through sundown on June 5, 2020, to honor George Floyd (Governor Lujan Grisham)
North Carolina	Governor Roy Cooper ordered all North Carolina flags at state facilities to be lowered from sunrise to sunset on June 6, 2020, in honor of George Floyd, who was a native of the state. (NC DOA)
Birmingham, Alabama (City)	Mayor Randall Woodfin ordered the city’s flag to be lowered to half-staff on May 29, 2020. (https://www.wbrc.com)

3 different bills were named after him

There were cities that renamed parks and streets in his honor...

They both had very public high profile memorial services attended by high-ranking politicians.


So we can't pretend if as if these 2 sets of responses to a high-profile wrongful death are lightyears apart in their intent or their response.

(to where one would be seen as completely reasonable, and the other merits an eyeroll reaction)


At best, one may be able to say the "political Pander-o-meter" from the GOP on Kirk's case was at a 9, and the Democrats on Floyd's case was at a 7.5.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Some states certainly did.

https://mn.gov/governor/assets/George%20Floyd%20Remembrance%20Day_tcm1055-528799.pdf

Compare the actual language of this bill with those honoring Kirk:

NOW, THEREFORE, I, TIM WALZ, Governor of Minnesota, do declare Wednesday, May 25, 2022, to be George Floyd Remembrance Day in honor of him and every person whose life has been cut short due to systems of racism and discrimination in Minnesota.

The fourteenth day of October is designated as "Charlie Kirk Memorial Day" in recognition of Charles James Kirk, the political activist who was born on that day in 1993

Resolved, That the House of Representatives—

(1) supports the designation of a “National Day of Remembrance for Charlie Kirk”;
(2) recognizes Charlie Kirk for his contributions to civic education and public service; and
(3) encourages educational institutions, civic organizations, and citizens across the United States to observe this day with appropriate programs, activities, prayers, and ceremonies that promote civic engagement and the principles of faith, liberty, and democracy that Charlie Kirk championed.

Note how the Minnesota bill does not lionize Floyd or declare him to be some sort of exemplar - it states what happened to him and the injustice of it, and declares a day of remembrance for Floyd and all those similarly treated unjustly by law enforcement. In contrast, the Kirk bills are explicitly in honor of Charlie Kirk and hold him up as an example to be followed.

3 different bills were named after him
View attachment 371019

All of which relate to police/law enforcement reforms, not Floyd himself. His name is used in recognition of the impact that his death had on the conversation about racism and racial bias in policing, not in honor of George Floyd, the man.

There were cities that renamed parks and streets in his honor...

View attachment 371020

That part, I agree, is a little silly, but also, I'm pretty sure it was just Minneapolis, and just the place where he was killed (that's where that picture is from).

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Compare the actual language of this bill with those honoring Kirk:

Note how the Minnesota bill does not lionize Floyd or declare him to be some sort of exemplar - it states what happened to him and the injustice of it, and declares a day of remembrance for Floyd and all those similarly treated unjustly by law enforcement. In contrast, the Kirk bills are explicitly in honor of Charlie Kirk and hold him up as an example to be followed.

All of which relate to police/law enforcement reforms, not Floyd himself. His name is used in recognition of the impact that his death had on the conversation about racism and racial bias in policing, not in honor of George Floyd, the man.

That part, I agree, is a little silly, but also, I'm pretty sure it was just Minneapolis, and just the place where he was killed (that's where that picture is from).

What about what Biden (and a few others) had to say when they spoke a Floyd's memorial:

Joe Biden Eulogy Transcript at George Floyd's Funeral | Rev

Joe Biden: Hello everyone on this day of prayer, where we try to understand God's plan in our pain. To George's family and friends, Jill and I know that d...

www.rev.com

A burden that is now your purpose to change the world for the better in the name of George Floyd. Joe Biden: Like so many others, I've watched with awe as you summon the absolute courage to channel God's grace and show the good man George was.

Little Gianna, as I said to you when I saw you yesterday, you're so brave. Daddy's looking down. He's so proud of you. I know you miss that bear hug that only he could give, the pure joy riding on his shoulders so you could touch the sky, the countless hours he spent playing any game you wanted because your smile, your laugh, your love is the only thing that mattered at the moment.

Because when there is justice for George Floyd, we will truly be on our way to racial justice in America. And then as you said Gianna, your daddy will have changed the world.

When were these countless of hours of being a model father? She was six at the time of his passing and lived in Houston with her mother her whole life, and he left Houston for for MN when she was 1 year old.


Now, I'm not saying that a bunch of politicians should show up to his memorial and start speaking "harsh truths" to his six year old daughter.

But I think we can both agree that was laying it on a little thick... The fact that Biden, several politicians, and several celebrities attended the service for a man they never knew

https://www.vulture.com/2020/06/celebrities-and-politicians-attend-george-floyd-memorial.html

...shows that there was a certain "political pander"/"make sure I'm sending the right message" sort of thing happening.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

What about what Biden (and a few others) had to say when they spoke a Floyd's memorial:

Joe Biden Eulogy Transcript at George Floyd's Funeral | Rev

Joe Biden: Hello everyone on this day of prayer, where we try to understand God's plan in our pain. To George's family and friends, Jill and I know that d...

www.rev.com

A burden that is now your purpose to change the world for the better in the name of George Floyd. Joe Biden: Like so many others, I've watched with awe as you summon the absolute courage to channel God's grace and show the good man George was.

Little Gianna, as I said to you when I saw you yesterday, you're so brave. Daddy's looking down. He's so proud of you. I know you miss that bear hug that only he could give, the pure joy riding on his shoulders so you could touch the sky, the countless hours he spent playing any game you wanted because your smile, your laugh, your love is the only thing that mattered at the moment.

Because when there is justice for George Floyd, we will truly be on our way to racial justice in America. And then as you said Gianna, your daddy will have changed the world.

When were these countless of hours of being a model father? She was six at the time of his passing and lived in Houston with her mother her whole life, and he left Houston for for MN when she was 1 year old.


Now, I'm not saying that a bunch of politicians should show up to his memorial and start speaking "harsh truths" to his six year old daughter.

But I think we can both agree that was laying it on a little thick... The fact that Biden, several politicians, and several celebrities attended the service

https://www.vulture.com/2020/06/celebrities-and-politicians-attend-george-floyd-memorial.html

...shows that there was a certain "pander"/"make sure I'm sending the right message" sort of thing happening.

Sounds like typical "funeral speak" to me - I've been at a lot of them.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Sounds like typical "funeral speak" to me - I've been at a lot of them.

Why were a bunch of politicians and a-listers (that never met or knew him) there to begin with?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Sure, but then those who supported that shouldn't be eyerolling or suggesting it's "ridiculous" when conservative locales do it for one of their folk heroes.

I have never complained about what local folks do for one of their heroes. I will complain if it is a federal thing.

Some states certainly did.

https://mn.gov/governor/assets/George%20Floyd%20Remembrance%20Day_tcm1055-528799.pdf

There were jurisdictions that ordered the flags lowered:

Jurisdiction	Details
Oregon	Governor Kate Brown ordered all state flags lowered from 11 a.m. until sunset on June 4, 2020. (opb)
New Mexico	Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham ordered state flags to fly half-staff through sundown on June 5, 2020, to honor George Floyd (Governor Lujan Grisham)
North Carolina	Governor Roy Cooper ordered all North Carolina flags at state facilities to be lowered from sunrise to sunset on June 6, 2020, in honor of George Floyd, who was a native of the state. (NC DOA)
Birmingham, Alabama (City)	Mayor Randall Woodfin ordered the city’s flag to be lowered to half-staff on May 29, 2020. (https://www.wbrc.com)

And that is their choice for those locales. Was it ordered federally?

3 different bills were named after him
View attachment 371019

Recognition of what was a murder by a police officer, that the officer felt he was doing what he was allowed, by writing legislation is a sensible thing to do.
There are too many folks killed by police and Floyd'd death was on TV. Those on the right are free to write bills as needed.

There were cities that renamed parks and streets in his honor...

View attachment 371020


They both had very public high profile memorial services attended by high-ranking politicians.

So?? Again, that is the decision of a local community.
I thought Floyd's funeral was overdone, but it was also a civil rights issue and he represented things that were happening.

So we can't pretend if as if these 2 sets of responses to a high-profile wrongful death are lightyears apart in their intent or their response.

(to where one would be seen as completely reasonable, and the other merits an eyeroll reaction)


At best, one may be able to say the "political Pander-o-meter" from the GOP on Kirk's case was at a 9, and the Democrats on Floyd's case was at a 7.5.

The difference is that the federal government didn't vote for a day of remembrance for Floyd. They passed a bill banning chokeholds, but a bill for police reforms did not pass.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article312354401.html

Following the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, politicians across the U.S. have advanced efforts to permanently memorialize him, including through coins, statues and official holidays. Congress designated Oct. 14, 2025, as the National Day of Remembrance for Kirk — who was shot and killed in Utah on Sept. 10 — and two House Republicans introduced legislation that would create commemorative silver dollars bearing his image. Meanwhile, state lawmakers in Pennsylvania, Oklahoma and Illinois moved to establish state holidays in Kirk’s honor, while proposals in Arizona and Florida would rename highways after him. And, in Oklahoma, a bill has been put forward that would require all public universities in the state to erect a statue of Kirk. Most of these efforts, though, are opposed by a majority of Americans, according to a new YouGov poll.​

I don't care about local decisions as long as they are not opposed by the majority. I do care about federal actions. And as the poll referenced above, most oppose all these actions.