Not my circus. Not my clown.

[eclipsenow]

What do they have to do with my statement about Trump unifying people?

You've got to be kidding!
He's the most divisive president America's ever had!

He intentionally splits the population by 'othering' illegal immigrants.
He intentionally splits the population every time he utters his outrageous claims about the 'radical left'.
He intentionally splits the population every time there is a disaster or shooting - claiming it was the 'radical left' before they've even caught the guy!

Other presidents and political figures try to calm things down after tragedies like this. Bernie Sanders recently ran through a list of all the main political assassinations and violence in recent years on both sides - and called the perpetrators cowards not confident enough that their arguments would win the day.

Trump? He only remembers incidents on the right, does not deign to dignify the assassination of democrats this year by even mentioning them, and just chants endless claims about "They" - "Them" - "the radical left" etc.

It's appalling.

Unify? Honestly mate - in what world?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Perplexity? Please no!
First - it was in your account - so I could not access it.

Second - what data set was it trained on? All that propaganda from the Fox loudhailer of Trump's every brain blurt?

Third - from my vantage as an Australian under the Westminster Parliamentary system - Americans care way too much about who their President is - and not enough about what their policies are. So Biden getting crazy old on his last watch was triggering because:-

• it seems the American population do not care about policies enough,
• those that do care about policies seem to have been deceived by the Trump narrative that immigration is a threat to America - where the statistics show them to be more law abiding and contribute more to the economy than they take,
• AND Kamala's actions SOUTH of the border were preventing the push factors that sent people from Central and South American countries, as immigration stats started to slow,
• As an Aussie raised under Westminster I just got cranky at your whole system. How dare the Democrats let it get that bad! Why was he the candidate they sent to represent them in the first place? Personality politics is bad enough in our system - but in your system where you try to let 'the people' (or is that big corporate donors?) elect an individual president - the personality politics seems to drown out policies a lot of the time.
• In Australia the party selects the leader - so we save a stack of money by avoiding basically having a second election. And if the leader says or does something truly stupid - the party will take stock of the polls and hold a leadership spill - and offer someone else as leader. The party polling systems somewhat reflect the popularity of various leaders - rather than the toxic personality politics of a public election system.

So when I see the statistics below (from Reuters) - I have a bunch of caveats and concerns around why Biden was left to let the Democrats ratings drag like that through 2022 and 23. But when you compare it to Trump - "Lions and Tigers and Bears - Oh my!" Why isn't Trump still up in the 50's or high 40's like Biden was during the honeymoon year?

Because he's Trump - that's why! Look at the first term!


View attachment 370688

So I take it you dont want evidence or sources. Just excuses to argue. Got it. Lesson learned.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

You've got to be kidding!
He's the most divisive president America's ever had!

Are people who are unified around their hatred for Trump not unified?

 

[BCP1928]

In the words of Donald Trump to Zelenski, democrats do not have the cards.

They will--Trump is handing them out. After Trump has slain the woke monster for you and driven out DEI, CRT, and LGBT, the issues that Doubtingmerle listed will still be issues. What will MAGA do about that?

 

[eclipsenow]

So I take it you dont want evidence or sources. Just excuses to argue. Got it. Lesson learned.

Yeah - that's the lesson to take from my asking up thread where your evidence was?
When you can link to a few credible sources without linking to a closed perplexity account - then maybe we'll have a chat.
In the meantime - the Reuters article shows how Trump's bombing.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

In the meantime - the Reuters article shows how Trump's bombing.

Trump is still doing better than the democrats. You have yet to show that my statement is wrong.

Democratic Party Favorability | RealClearPolling

Democratic Party Favorability | RealClearPolling

www.realclearpolling.com

 

[A2SG]

Trump is still doing better than the democrats. You have yet to show that my statement is wrong.

Democratic Party Favorability | RealClearPolling

Democratic Party Favorability | RealClearPolling

www.realclearpolling.com

Dude, we democrats know there are problems with the party. We've known it for a while. Will Rogers knew it a century ago. But any problems we might have with the Democratic Party don't make the GOP any better. Or Trump.

The fact is, no matter what democrats feel about the Democratic party, Trump's supporters continue to disapprove of Trump's actions more and more the longer he acts. This would tell a savvy or reasonably intelligent politician to consider changing tactics. Trump, rather, doubles down.

But, at least there is one saving grace: he can't run for office again.

-- A2SG, just wish someone would tell him that.....

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Dude, we democrats know there are problems with the party.

Great! But for some strange reason, I point out that fact to @eclipsenow and get hit with a bunch of whataboutisms that do nothing to disprove my statement. Just a bunch of "See! Look at this article that shows how Trump's approval ratings are dropping!" And my response is, "What about it? Trump is still more popular than the Democratic Party."

 

[A2SG]

Great! But for some strange reason, I point out that fact to @eclipsenow and get hit with a bunch of whataboutisms that do nothing to disprove my statement. Just a bunch of "See! Look at this article that shows how Trump's approval ratings are dropping!" And my response is, "What about it? Trump is still more popular than the Democratic Party."

As I said before, which you chose not to quote:

"any problems we might have with the Democratic Party don't make the GOP any better. Or Trump."

The fact remains, Trump's approval ratings are dropping, in large part due to his constant lies (such as the one noted in the OP) and the fact that none of his outrageous promises or predictions are coming true (also see the OP). Even MAGA is starting to notice.

You can whatabout to the fact that democrats have always complained about the Democratic party all you like, but that will not change the fact that even Trump supporters are starting to realize how bad Trump has been, and will continue to be, for this country.

-- A2SG, but by all means, avoid this fact by continuing to report the news that Will Rogers knew a century ago....

 

[Pommer]

Are people who are unified around their hatred for Trump not unified?

Is there any wriggle room for “people who dislike President Trump’s rule governing style and policies” and those who “hate him”?

It’s politics.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Is there any wriggle room for “people who dislike President Trump’s rule governing style and policies” and those who “hate him”?

It’s politics.

What is with the crossed out "rule?" I dont always agree with Teump's governing style, but i do not hate the man. Prove you dont just blindly hate Trump and say a few genuine good things about him without sarcasm.

 

[eclipsenow]

Trump is still doing better than the democrats. You have yet to show that my statement is wrong.

Democratic Party Favorability | RealClearPolling

Democratic Party Favorability | RealClearPolling

www.realclearpolling.com

I think you have forgotten what my argument was - and you went straight back to your preferred territory of polling numbers between the 2 parties. My point? What about the OTHER party - the adults in America that do not vote?

In other words - if Trump won over Kamala by 1.47% - the actual difference he won by when compared to the entire population is a margin of only about 0.9%.

Or to put it another way, 2/3rds did not vote for him - and only a tiny fraction over 1/3 did.

Basically, any argument that Trump is OK because he's so popular is just laughable when lined up with these realities.

So you ignored what I was saying in the first post, and ignored my follow up post which showed Trump's popularity falling faster in 2/3 a year than Biden's did in double the time.

Interesting.

 

[eclipsenow]

What is with the crossed out "rule?" I dont always agree with Teump's governing style, but i do not hate the man. Prove you dont just blindly hate Trump and say a few genuine good things about him without sarcasm.

I think he was implying this regime (cough cough sorry) administration has a certain dictatorial (cough cough sorry) autocratic (cough cough sorry) I meant authoritarian sensibility.

Trump’s campaigning and government style reek of authoritarian strategies. His rhetoric uses the tricks of the fascists of the 20th century:-

CONFIRMATION BIAS and flattery of certain parts of the population.

STRONG MAN language: - tapping into the vulnerable and confused workers desire for answers - their wish for a super-hero like figure to act out THEIR OWN frustration on the world! “I will be your vengeance.” Etc. Psychologically it’s called Identification with the aggressor.

THE BLAME GAME / SPLITTING / OTHERING: Finding a group to blame for all society’s ills. Immigrants took your jobs, radical socialist left assassinates everyone (when the statistics show the right does this 5 times more!) “They’re eating the dogs”, etc.

PROPOGANDA LORDS: Try to control information. Banning comedians, intellectuals from discussing certain things, attacks on universities, attacking the free press. Sound familiar?

https://knowledge.insead.edu/leadership-organisations/fighting-against-dictatorship

 

[MotoToTheMax]

Dude, we democrats know there are problems with the party. We've known it for a while. Will Rogers knew it a century ago. But any problems we might have with the Democratic Party don't make the GOP any better. Or Trump.

The fact is, no matter what democrats feel about the Democratic party, Trump's supporters continue to disapprove of Trump's actions more and more the longer he acts. This would tell a savvy or reasonably intelligent politician to consider changing tactics. Trump, rather, doubles down.

But, at least there is one saving grace: he can't run for office again.

-- A2SG, just wish someone would tell him that.....

There's a house down the street from me that has a "Trump 2028" flag on a flagpole for at least 2 weeks now, and still flying it. There comes a point when "trolling" becomes "actually let's go for it" and I fear there may come a critical mass of compliance that it actually gets attempted. Constitution be darned.

 

[A2SG]

There's a house down the street from me that has a "Trump 2028" flag on a flagpole for at least 2 weeks now, and still flying it. There comes a point when "trolling" becomes "actually let's go for it" and I fear there may come a critical mass of compliance that it actually gets attempted. Constitution be darned.

And it wouldn't surprise me if the SCOTUS somehow reinterpreted the 22nd Amendment to allow it. At least, I'm pretty sure Thomas and Alito would. Gorsuch, Barrett and Kavanaugh might fall in line too, but they also might not. I doubt Roberts would, and we know how the other three will decide. Or it could be a bridge too far even for Thomas and Alito, though I'd never put it past them to try.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

-- A2SG, is there really a bridge too far for those two where Trump is concerned?

 

[Pommer]

Prove you dont just blindly hate Trump and say a few genuine good things about him without sarcasm.

No.

 

[eclipsenow]

No.

Ha ha ha - great answer.

I've never understood what this kind of demand was meant to prove? I'm happy to discuss policies with data and arguments and facts - but this interrogation of our emotional lives to somehow justify whether or not we are allowed to comment here? It just feels a bit entitled - a bit "open up your soul to me so I can criticise you!"

If Oompa wants some emotions - here they are. But what does this prove?

EMOTIONAL REACTIONS FROM AN AUSSIE - but it's all irrelevant (and we will discuss WHY it's irrelevant below.)

While in my Christian life I might pray for him - it tends to be just that God will in his grace minimise the harm this man could do! ​

​

Americans have elected a very dangerous man to the role of President. His NPD makes him completely unfit for the role!​

Everything about Trump makes me wince at a gut level. It's his NPD. He has conned people in real estate deals, assaulted women, illegally avoided tax, divided America like no President before him, inflamed racist sentiment in the country with bizarre accusations about how criminal all immigrants are, "They're eating the dogs" etc.​

​

And yet despite all this foul behaviour, Christian Nationalists rally around him? Yet he adds his foul narcissistic comments into their services? EG: At Charlie Kirk's funeral (or was that Christian Nationalist political rally?) - says he DOES not forgive his enemies - he hates them!​

​

Everything and everyone has to be about him. Too much forgiveness and humble recognition of God's sovereignty on display? Oh no - can't have that! Trump gets up and blows his own Trumpet - "I hate my enemies!" Everything is about him.​

​

EG: When Anthony Albanese's Labor won the Australian election, Trump didn't just affirm the strong alliance between Australia and America - but instead brain-blurted about how Albanese had said 'very nice things to me'. Hooray! Australia's long-term relationship with America is assured because we flattered Trump's insatiable ego! I mean - how revolving! How NPD can you get?​

So there you are. How my emotional system responds to the narcissist America elected.​

WHY MY EMOTIONS ARE IRRELEVANT
If you had elected a charming and humble person instead, I would still disagree with MAGA's policies on tariffs, illegal immigration, abortion, climate change, healthcare, betraying generations of NATO alliance, betraying a new democratic friend in Ukraine, etc. I would still contribute data and arguments that show an Ordo-Liberal economic paradigm could solve these in a cheap and efficient manner - and that the harsh policies of MAGA would do more harm than good.

Yet with the added spiciness of Trump as demagogue - all of this culminates in a big picture of a man bent on twisting America's very democratic foundations out of shape. I'm optimistic American democracy will survive this - and give it a far greater chance of surviving Trump than him actually being able to pull off a coup. But the fact that a Trump dictatorship is non-zero chills me to the core.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I've never understood what this kind of demand was meant to prove?

If someone cannot bring themselves to say one positive thing about a person, any criticism they have should be treated like white noise and without credibility.

 

[eclipsenow]

If someone cannot bring themselves to say one positive thing about a person, any criticism they have should be treated like white noise and without credibility.

WHY MY EMOTIONS ARE IRRELEVANT
If you had elected a charming and humble person instead, I would still disagree with MAGA's policies on tariffs, illegal immigration, abortion, climate change, healthcare, betraying generations of NATO alliance, betraying a new democratic friend in Ukraine, etc. I would still contribute data and arguments that show an Ordo-Liberal economic paradigm could solve these in a cheap and efficient manner - and that the harsh policies of MAGA would do more harm than good.

 

[Nithavela]

Really?

One would think that one who loved God would be concerned about the loss Trump is bringing to the poor among us.

And one who loved country would not cheer for the utter buffoonery that Trump displayed in front of the world at the UN.

And one who loved family would not be cheering when ICE breaks up families that we had allowed to be here for decades.

And one who loves humanity would not cheer the cutback of alternative energy projects, which are our only hope for continuing any decent industrialized society into the future.

You don't understand. That list is additive. One has to tick all those boxes to receive love, not just some of them. They have to be christian (but not the wrong kind of christian), us american (terms and conditions apply), pro family values (which boils down to being anti-abortion and anti-lgbt+) and pro-humanity (everyone who ticks all the other three boxes, and nobody else, since "they" are anti-humanity).