The Trump DOJ goes "woke" and will target free speech.

[Larniavc]

I could have sworn throughout the existence of time the right railed against the idea that a type of speech, not criminal, could itself be a crime.

Correct! But I’m not sure we should be using the word ‘right’ here. We should be using the words ‘Trump Authoritarian Administration’.

I’m convinced that the vast majority of people on the right are good people with good hearts and it’s the American Administration which is the hypocritical villain here.

 

[camille70]

You would think that so many couldn't have come over Trump's partially completed wall. But they did. Of course, many have been overestimating the numbers, but almost surely the number was over 5 million, compared to less than a million under Obama or Trump.

They changed how they count encounters. It's a combination of two stats that were separate before. I think the numbers were still higher under Biden, but this made Biden's numbers appear much larger than they were.

We don't have open borders and didn't have it under Obama or Biden. Obama was known as the Deporter-in-Chief for a reason, but dems cant crow about it because their base doesnt like it. Biden was way more effective than Trump's 1st term, and he didn't have to try to disappear kids at 2 am to get the numbers or terrorize whole communities to do so. In fact, their numbers being so low is why they were raiding home depots, churches, schools, stalking court houses and lying to people to get them to come in for immigration meetings.

Trump migrant deportation numbers compared to Obama, Biden

The first two weeks of the new administration saw over 5,000 immigrants removed or deported, the Department of Homeland Security said.

www.newsweek.com

I'll quote myself on how they count boarder crossings.

The border is generally only an emergency during an election year. The rates were much higher in the 1990's. Border states get money to deal with immigrants. If they are going to bus the problem elsewhere, they need to send the money along with them.

Current numbers look much worse than they are because they changed how they count apprehensions and expulsions. They used to be separate but now they are counted together as "encounters". The majority of illegal immigrants are not crossing the border anyway. They are overstaying visas.

Border crossing encounters U.S. 1990-2023| Statista

The number of illegal border crossings reached an all-time high in 2022, with over 2.2 million migrant encounters registered by the U.S. Border Patrol.

www.statista.com

Border crossings are up, but Hudson misrepresents situation

A North Carolina congressman says the number of crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border has doubled and that President Biden

www.politifact.com

https://www.cato.org/blog/cato-report-zero-chance-being-killed-terrorist-attack-illegal-immigrant-1975-2022

Between 1990 and February 2020, the U.S. Border Patrol counted "apprehensions" and "expulsions" separately. As of March 2020, the U.S. Border Patrol changed its methodology to include both apprehensions and expulsions as "encounters."

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Correct! But I’m not sure we should be using the word ‘right’ here. We should be using the words ‘Trump Authoritarian Administration’.

I’m convinced that the vast majority of people on the right are good people with good hearts and it’s the American Administration which is the hypocritical villain here.

Have these good people with good hearts been deceived?

 

[mark46]

We don't have open borders and didn't have it under Obama or Biden. Obama was known as the Deporter-in-Chief for a reason, but dems cant crow about it because their base doesnt like it. Biden was way more effective than Trump's 1st term.

I agree with most of what you posted.

I want to focus on your statement that Biden was much more effect than Trump's first term. On what do you base that conclusion? Obviously, Trump did many terrible things in the implementation of his immigration policy. He also often lied about the numbers. He continues to have the same tactics.

For a moment, let us not focus on lying or even intent. Do you believe that more immigrants crossed illegally in Trump's first term than under Biden? What is your source of numbers? I don't recall any numbers showing how many FEWER crossed without documents under Biden.

 

[Say it aint so]

Reply

OK, I'll be clear.

I didn't understand (and cannot identify) the Biden border policies, only that they allowed millions of unwanted, undocumented people to come across the border. I'm not even sure of what Trump's individual border policies are.

The issue is extremely complex with hundreds of decisions, policies and actions. Immigration is not my expertise. I judge border policy by results and even by expected results.
==============
And just BTW, we have a closed border. I can judge what I think the border will be like with Harris and the left in charge of immigration policy. Should I believe that it would remain close. For those who so believe, I think stock in the Brooklyn Bridge and Everglades swampland is still available for sale.

""OK, I'll be clear.
I didn't understand (and cannot identify) the Biden border policies,...""

Well, there it is. I ask follow up questions and you acknowledge you are speaking of policies you don't understand. Great.

 

[Say it aint so]

Correct! But I’m not sure we should be using the word ‘right’ here. We should be using the words ‘Trump Authoritarian Administration’.

I’m convinced that the vast majority of people on the right are good people with good hearts and it’s the American Administration which is the hypocritical villain here.

What's the saying about silence is complicity? They sure weren't quiet when they accused the left of being "woke"

 

[Larniavc]

Have these good people with good hearts been deceived?

They most certainly. More than that they have been betrayed by people who have hijacked religion and used it against their best interests.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The right went bananas when the Biden administration suggested to social media companies that they shouldn't spread misinformation.

How MAGA Killed Foreign Influence Research, But Now Demands Social Media Stop Foreign Influence Campaigns​

(As best I can tell, this is in reference to the spreading claim that Israel was behind the Kirk assassination as Kirk had allegedly soured on Israel)

 

[Larniavc]

What's the saying about silence is complicity? They sure weren't quiet when they accused the left of being "woke"

I think a significant proportion of said voting block is too scared to speak out because then they might fall victim to the very people they voted into power.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I think a significant proportion of said voting block is too scared to speak out because then they might fall victim to the very people they voted into power.

Fear is a powerful tool that even seems to touch royalty.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Those of us non-MAGA had a lot of fear and dread about what another Trump presidency might do. But the reality is turning out to be something far worse than anyone could have imagined.

 

[childeye 2]

Those of us non-MAGA had a lot of fear and dread about what another Trump presidency might do. But the reality is turning out to be something far worse than anyone could have imagined.

There have been some on this forum who saw this all coming. It was predictable behavior that was being projected in Trump's own words.

 

[childeye 2]

What's the saying about silence is complicity? They sure weren't quiet when they accused the left of being "woke"

FWIW I agree with @Larniavc. The left/right dichotomy is being misappropriated to form false narratives. Left and right are supposed to be opposing subjective views that are equally valid so that the objective view is in the abstract center. One should NOT put any credence or Clout in any negative depictions one side has to say about the other side.

 

[childeye 2]

How MAGA Killed Foreign Influence Research, But Now Demands Social Media Stop Foreign Influence Campaigns​

View attachment 370338

(As best I can tell, this is in reference to the spreading claim that Israel was behind the Kirk assassination as Kirk had allegedly soured on Israel)

I can now picture Nick Fuentes.

 

[camille70]

I agree with most of what you posted.

I want to focus on your statement that Biden was much more effect than Trump's first term. On what do you base that conclusion? Obviously, Trump did many terrible things in the implementation of his immigration policy. He also often lied about the numbers. He continues to have the same tactics.

For a moment, let us not focus on lying or even intent. Do you believe that more immigrants crossed illegally in Trump's first term than under Biden? What is your source of numbers? I don't recall any numbers showing how many FEWER crossed without documents under Biden.

I was speaking about deportation numbers. Biden deported more people than Trump each month. More than Obama also.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I was speaking about deportation numbers. Biden deported more people than Trump each month. More than Obama also.

Even with all this ICE business?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Even with all this ICE business?

ICE has locked up a lot of people, but the courts insist on due process, and the main effect of all these detentions has been to increase the ~2 million person backlog in the immigration courts (and increase our expenses for feeding and housing these people).

 

[camille70]

Even with all this ICE business?

I haven't checked recent numbers and honestly I don't think they will be reliable. The reason we have all this ice business is because their numbers were not where they wanted them to be so Stephen Miller has ppl abducted outside home depots etc. Also they are revoking legal status, deporting people and using that to pad the numbers.

Agents have gone on record that this is an issue because the dangerous criminals that do need to be deported aren't hanging out at home depot and showing up for immigration hearings. Since it can take hundreds of hours of manpower to get the actual criminals, they aren't being properly pursued.

The first link I posted was from Feb and had a graph for deportations Obama-Trump.

This was also mentioned:

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) said Tuesday that in the first two weeks of President Donald Trump's second term, nearly 5,700 illegal immigrants had been deported.

If the new administration continues at that clip, one expert told Newsweek, then it would be on track to deport half the number of migrants removed during former President Joe Biden's last full fiscal year in 2024.

 

[mark46]

ICE has locked up a lot of people, but the courts insist on due process, and the main effect of all these detentions has been to increase the ~2 million person backlog in the immigration courts (and increase our expenses for feeding and housing these people).

The funding is there to continue to detain and then give those detained due process. Then, hopefully, a more orderly process of deportation can take place, perhaps even at the rate of a million a year.

 

[camille70]

The funding is there to continue to detain and then give those detained due process. Then, hopefully, a more orderly process of deportation can take place, perhaps even at the rate of a million a year.

2021 Biden already did one million. All but two months met or exceeded 100k each month.