The Trump DOJ goes "woke" and will target free speech.

[RocksInMyHead]

That’s opinion not fact.

If it's not factual, then you should be able to point to something that the senate has voted on (recently) that is "far left."

But, for the sake of argument, let's say that it is my opinion. In that case, what, in Hillary Clinton's voting record (since you already linked it), shows her to be "far left"? Because again, I read through it, and it's all pretty moderate to mildly left-leaning.

In this instance, you made the positive claim ("their voting record shows them to be far left"), and thus it is on you to support it. That's how debate works. If I claim that the sky is purple, then it's on me to prove that it is, not on you to prove that it is not.

 

[NxNW]

It’s not a matter of platform but what they support.

The platform, by definition, is what they support.

You can bury your head in the sand but it is what it is.

What you describe isn't in the platform.

She was soft in crime. Prove otherwise.

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

 

[NxNW]

Reply

OK, I'll be clear.

I didn't understand (and cannot identify) the Biden border policies, only that they allowed millions of unwanted, undocumented people to come across the border.

Never happened, because Trump built the wall and Mexico paid for it.

 

[NxNW]

That’s opinion not fact.

Voting record is an opinion?

 

[NxNW]

Prove otherwise.

The burden of proof is on the accuser. It's your responsibility to prove the accusations you're making about the Dems.

 

[mark46]

Never happened, because Trump built the wall and Mexico paid for it.

Yes, Trump built some of a wall. We paid for it. And, yet, still, Biden allowed more than 10 million illegals to enter over the southern border. After the examples and actions of Obama and Trump, allowing so many was somewhat amazing.

 

[NxNW]

Where in the world do you get that from? You can’t be further from the truth. You made the premise so now prove it.

The Senate, including all Democrats, unanimously passed the day of remembrance for Charlie Kirk.

 

[NxNW]

Yes, Trump built some of a wall. We paid for it. And, yet, still, Biden allowed more than 10 million illegals to enter over the southern border.

Never happened. That's over 6800 per day. No way they could make it over Trump's wall.

 

[mark46]

Never happened. That's over 6800 per day. No way they could make it over Trump's wall.

You would think that so many couldn't have come over Trump's partially completed wall. But they did. Of course, many have been overestimating the numbers, but almost surely the number was over 5 million, compared to less than a million under Obama or Trump.

 

[NxNW]

You would think that so many couldn't have come over Trump's partially completed wall. But they did.

It's too bad Trump's wall was ineffective.

Of course, many have been overestimating the numbers, but almost surely the number was over 5 million, compared to less than a million under Obama or Trump.

From 10 million down to 5 million. How quickly the goalposts move.

 

[mark46]

It's too bad Trump's wall was ineffective.

From 10 million down to 5 million. How quickly the goalposts move.

Quite right.

I decided to perhaps use a less controversial number rather than one than one of the Republican exaggerations. But 5 million is really a huge number. The open question is what we might expect if Democrats are in power in 2029. The almost zero from Obama's and Trump's four terms or what we saw under Biden. (I suspect that we might add Bush's and Clinton's four terms).

Trump invented a border/immigrant crisis in his 2016 campaign. There was none under Obama. There was no need for a wall. Even so, there was no crisis under Trump in his first term.
=========
We might not understand what happened under Biden with regard to the border, but we MUST avoid repetition.

 

[mark46]

It's too bad Trump's wall was ineffective.

Trump's unnecessary wall wasn't completed and worked well enough when Trump was president. You can hardly blame the lack of completion of the wall for the huge numbers of illegal entries under Biden.

 

[Bradskii]

There was no need for a wall.

Trump said there was a need. He also bizzarely said that Mexico would pay for it. Even more bizzarely, some people were stupid enough to believe him. Now those same people are claiming that the number of immigrants has dropped significantly under.

What they are effectively saying is that Trump lied to them.

 

[Bradskii]

Talking of free speech, from here: Judge strikes down Trump’s $15bn lawsuit against the New York Times

A federal judge tossed Donald Trump’s $15bn defamation lawsuit against the New York Times, book publisher Penguin and two Times reporters, and said the suit was filled with “vituperation and invective” and violated civil procedure in federal cases for failing to get to the point.

“Alleging only two simple counts of defamation, the complaint consumes eighty-five pages,” Merryday wrote. “Count I appears on page eighty, and Count II appears on page eighty-three … Even under the most generous and lenient application of Rule 8, the complaint is decidedly improper and impermissible.”

Merryday noted the “many, often repetitive, and laudatory (toward President Trump) but superfluous allegations,” and “much more, persistently alleged in abundant, florid, and enervating detail”.

The judge’s order does not address the truth of the allegations nor the validity of the claims, but said “a complaint remains an improper and impermissible place for the tedious and burdensome aggregation of prospective evidence, for the rehearsal of tendentious arguments, or for the protracted recitation and explanation of legal authority putatively supporting the pleader’s claim for relief.”

Ouch...

 

[mark46]

Trump said there was a need. He also bizzarely said that Mexico would pay for it. Even more bizzarely, some people were stupid enough to believe him. Now those same people are claiming that the number of immigrants has dropped significantly under.

What they are effectively saying is that Trump lied to them.

???
TRUMP TERM ONE
After saying how terrible the situation was, he solved it by building a partial wall and initiating crazy policies.
Trump lied in his campaign. OK.

BIDEN
There was a border crisis for much of his term, certainly in Year 2 and Year 3 allowing way too many illegal entries. Some Republicans think 11 million or more under Biden. Some sources have a more reasonabe 5 million estimate. We really don't know. We do know how bad it was.

TRUMP TWO
Since the start of the campaign, Trump criticized Biden's policies again and again and again. Trump said that Biden had the power to stop the flow even without congressional action. Biden finally changed his policies and greatly reduced the illegal entries in his last few months. But the damage was done and the situation was clear. Biden's policies failed and allowed many millions of illegals into the country and allowed them to go to cities throughout the land.

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS
Is there a belief here that Democrats running in 2028 will have more strict immigration policies than Biden? Really? Several Democratic candidates in 2020 wanted to erase the notion of illegal entry, making such actions a non-criminal matter.

Democrats need to be really, really clear on the issue of border security or lose millions of votes AGAIN.

 

[NxNW]

Trump's unnecessary wall wasn't completed and worked well enough when Trump was president. You can hardly blame the lack of completion of the wall for the huge numbers of illegal entries under Biden.

I haven't heard a reliable number for that illegal entries. 10 million? 5 million? A Brazilian?

 

[childeye 2]

I haven't heard a reliable number for that illegal entries. 10 million? 5 million? A Brazilian

border encounters

 

[childeye 2]

???
TRUMP TERM ONE
After saying how terrible the situation was, he solved it by building a partial wall and initiating crazy policies.
Trump lied in his campaign. OK.

BIDEN
There was a border crisis for much of his term, certainly in Year 2 and Year 3 allowing way too many illegal entries. Some Republicans think 11 million or more under Biden. Some sources have a more reasonabe 5 million estimate. We really don't know. We do know how bad it was.

TRUMP TWO
Since the start of the campaign, Trump criticized Biden's policies again and again and again. Trump said that Biden had the power to stop the flow even without congressional action. Biden finally changed his policies and greatly reduced the illegal entries in his last few months. But the damage was done and the situation was clear. Biden's policies failed and allowed many millions of illegals into the country and allowed them to go to cities throughout the land.

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS
Is there a belief here that Democrats running in 2028 will have more strict immigration policies than Biden? Really? Several Democratic candidates in 2020 wanted to erase the notion of illegal entry, making such actions a non-criminal matter.

Democrats need to be really, really clear on the issue of border security or lose millions of votes AGAIN.

Trump didn't exactly say how terrible the situation was, he said that other countries were sending their worst people over here. You know, Hannibal Lectors, poisoning the blood of America. Trump didn't care about the plights of these people who walked thousands of miles through jungle and dessert to seek asylum here. He saw them as the problem.

 

[mark46]

I haven't heard a reliable number for that illegal entries. 10 million? 5 million? A Brazilian?

So, we don't know whether the number was 5m or 7m or 10M or 11m. Let's just say that the numbers were unacceptable and that they were much higher than under Obama and Trump in the 12 years that preceded Obama.
=========
The issue before us is whether the Democrats will be able to convince the voters that their BORDER POLICY is acceptable. That is necessary before any real immigration reform or a Democratic win.

 

[Valletta]

I haven't heard a reliable number for that illegal entries. 10 million? 5 million? A Brazilian?

Between 10 and 20 million during the Biden regime. Because security under Joe was so lax we don't have a solid number on those who didn't want the free transportation, hotel rooms, and phones.