False Preachers/Teachers

[BeckyJ]

I have come into contact with individuals who can accurately tell you how to be saved, but contradict or lie about other parts of the Bible. I believe false teacher can go beyond distorting the Gospel.
One person I classify a false teacher is Lori Alexander. She doesn't promote Christianity, she promotes Patriarchy and traditionalism. She is very clever with distorting the Bible; she deceived me at one point! I was at the point where I no longer wanted a husband, if it meant obeying him, being controlled by him, and having to go to him instead of God; I felt like God was being replaced.
Another one isn't a person, but a group - Christian Identity. I found them on Gab. They are very evil people. One of the things they say is that only white people can go to Heaven. Anyone that promotes Christian Identity is not of God, but of the Devil.

Haven't heard of either, but thank you for sharing!!
The more names that are shared, the better. Sadly there are so many false teachers as the Bible warns.
And we are to mark and avoid them as the Bible says.

 

[Delvianna]

I have come into contact with individuals who can accurately tell you how to be saved, but contradict or lie about other parts of the Bible. I believe false teacher can go beyond distorting the Gospel.

One person I classify a false teacher is Lori Alexander. She doesn't promote Christianity, she promotes Patriarchy and traditionalism. She is very clever with distorting the Bible; she deceived me at one point! I was at the point where I no longer wanted a husband, if it meant obeying him, being controlled by him, and having to go to him instead of God; I felt like God was being replaced.

Another one isn't a person, but a group - Christian Identity. I found them on Gab. They are very evil people. One of the things they say is that only white people can go to Heaven. Anyone that promotes Christian Identity is not of God, but of the Devil.

I agree! I think what makes a false teacher isn't just getting the gospel wrong, but the teachings they preach actually leads you away from God and root you into sin that you aren't even aware that you're in. It's not a case of just getting something wrong that holds no consequence in the grand scheme of things, like two people arguing over who is the anti-christ or how long the tribulation period is, but significant teachings that corrupt your walk in Christ and eventually drive such a big giant wedge in it, that you are in serious danger of going to hell instead of the place you think you're going because those false teachers have instructed you to make idols, other gods that make them equal to or greater than God or live in sin at its core.

So essentially, my definition is, does this lead away from God where your salvation is in danger, or does it direct you back to God where he is the leader and it grows your faith and trust in him?

 

[com7fy8]

we are to mark and avoid them as the Bible says.

I would say we need to spell out at least the main thing someone is saying or doing which we claim to be evidence that they are false.

 

[BeckyJ]

I would say we need to spell out at least the main thing someone is saying or doing which we claim to be evidence that they are false.

We can also do our own research. There is plenty of info out there about most of these people.

 

[com7fy8]

We can also do our own research. There is plenty of info out there about most of these people.

It is written >

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I would say this includes how we make sure we test the ones we trust. Do not assume every thing must be right because I trust someone.

And God has us helping one another. Or else, we also could say, do your own research about who the fakes are.

And there can be incorrect info, plus out-of-date things. Everything needs to be checked, then.

So, since people can be misrepresented, I would say I need to personally make sure about whatever I accept. And in case I can not make sure . . . leave it alone, and make sure I hold to whatever is right, by the Bible. I do not have to say things about people I do not know personally, taking the say-so and representation from people I don't even know.

 

[BeckyJ]

It is written >

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I would say this includes how we make sure we test the ones we trust. Do not assume every thing must be right because I trust someone.

And God has us helping one another. Or else, we also could say, do your own research about who the fakes are.

And there can be incorrect info, plus out-of-date things. Everything needs to be checked, then.

So, since people can be misrepresented, I would say I need to personally make sure about whatever I accept. And in case I can not make sure . . . leave it alone, and make sure I hold to whatever is right, by the Bible. I do not have to say things about people I do not know personally, taking the say-so and representation from people I don't even know.

If you don't like false teachers being named, then please, ignore posts like this that may trigger that concern.
Others can do so if they choose. I respect your choice to not like this sort of thing overall.
As I already mentioned to another, since the Bible names names, we can too.

 

[Delvianna]

If you don't like false teachers being named, then please, ignore posts like this that may trigger that concern.
Others can do so if they choose. I respect your choice to not like this sort of thing overall.
As I already mentioned to another, since the Bible names names, we can too.

I think they mean in generalities like, don't assume just because I said someone is false that they are, or don't assume just because I trust someone they're trust-worthy. I do agree with what they said about correcting others because if people label someone as false, but the information is incorrect, out-dated or something that someone else can correct, then that brings more of a conversation than just saying someone is a false teacher without listing why they think so.

So for instance, I list Voddie Bauchman and say he said something because someone else claimed he did, but someone comes along and says, "but he didn't say that, he said xyz instead", thats making sure that truth is paramount over just naming a name.

At least that's what I think com7fy8 means.

 

[bèlla]

One person I classify a false teacher is Lori Alexander. She doesn't promote Christianity, she promotes Patriarchy and traditionalism. She is very clever with distorting the Bible; she deceived me at one point! I was at the point where I no longer wanted a husband, if it meant obeying him, being controlled by him, and having to go to him instead of God; I felt like God was being replaced.

We have to mindful of our opinions and experiences and their impact on our reception. I’m familiar with Lori’s work and others with similar perspectives. The patriarchal examples in the bible will be more favorable for some and less so for others. If you’ve had positive male influences and good experiences with men you’re less likely to have the concerns you raised. Not that they’re wrong. We know bad things happen. But the trust wasn’t broken.

I saw what she described growing up and wouldn’t marry a man who didn’t have my grandfather‘s character. But I’ve witnessed others who believe the same that I wouldn’t trust with a pet let alone myself. And headship relies on holiness. You won’t have a good experience if the person’s wicked. I’ve never advised a woman to be someone’s guinea pig. We have to give equal attention to what he does and says.

But as with most things it’s not for everyone. There’s valid reasons why a person would have challenges in that dynamic and others where it’s appealing. I don’t believe the man usurps the Lord and feel it’s unwise to marry someone whose advice you can’t trust. That’s what leadership is in the nutshell. You’re buying into their vision and results. We should validate their soundness by examining their experiences and who entrusted them with responsibility or resources. That’s how I vet.

Being egalitarian or complementarian isn’t a guarantee. Because it isn’t the philosophy it’s the person who makes a difference.

~bella

 

[lismore]

There are many false preachers/teachers in the world. For the well known ones, who all do you see as false teachers?

Some that come to mind for me are: Benny Hinn, Paula Cain, Ben Creamer, Joel Osteen.

Hello! Interesting discussion. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” (Galatians 5:9). IMHO false teachings can be subtle, even a small change to the direction of travel can lead you to a different destination. The bible also says that false teachers will secretly introduce destructive teachings:

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves (2 Peter 2:1).

I think the thread has quite quickly picked up on obvious false teachers from the prosperity gospel like Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen and Kenneth Copeland and who persecute believers who take a Biblical stand. Also obvious are apostate denomination who promote SSM, LGBQTI and Islamism and who actively persecute those who take a faithful stand, as one elderly couple I know who were ejected from a Presbyterian church they had been members of for half a century, for taking a stand for the bible.

I would raise something that might be more controversial but I believe is one of the big challenges of our day. Christian Contemporary Music. Music has long been recognised as having psychosomatic and even psychedelic qualities, Napoleon used loud martial music to encourage soldiers into near suicidal feats on the battlefield for example. Ancient Pagan temples used music to stir people up into a frenzy and open themselves up to malign influences. In many modern churches there is a deliberate programme of extremely loud repetitive music, rhythmical formerly background instruments like drums are now dominant, sensory deprivation like lowering the lighting and other effects like fog machines, pyrotechnics to manipulate the congregation aka audience. Given these manipulation techniques the oft criticized lyrics of the songs are accepted by the gyrating groupies looking for a high, in addition to the pop peer pressure present in many churches. 'Worship' songs are often called out for being based on feelings, emotions, sometimes even with lyrics that can directly contradict the clear teachings of scripture. Heresies can be introduced through the music, where people's guards seem to be down because of the psychosomatic manipulation techniques in the music.

Furthermore, many churches who might balk at the idea of NAR, Prosperity gospel teachings and the like in their churches seem to be unaware that the tentacles of these organisations are firmly wrapped around their pulpits because of the popular songs the church sing and yes, pay to sing! Simony anyone? Bethel, Elevation, Hillsong and the like. Many a church is paying to sing some of their songs. Pastors might disagree with the teachings of a mega-church, but then pay to sing some of their songs, which are on the same flawed theological base, fruit of the same subtly toxic tree.

God Bless You

 

[BeckyJ]

I think they mean in generalities like, don't assume just because I said someone is false that they are, or don't assume just because I trust someone they're trust-worthy. I do agree with what they said about correcting others because if people label someone as false, but the information is incorrect, out-dated or something that someone else can correct, then that brings more of a conversation than just saying someone is a false teacher without listing why they think so.

So for instance, I list Voddie Bauchman and say he said something because someone else claimed he did, but someone comes along and says, "but he didn't say that, he said xyz instead", thats making sure that truth is paramount over just naming a name.

At least that's what I think com7fy8 means.

I understand your point.
Many of us who know who are false teachers don't keep a file on what we found. So to do the homework for those who can do it themselves, if they are that interested, is a bit dependent on what we found instead of just researching it for oneself.
tbh, on some of these people there's a lot and to list something that would convince the person is a shot in the dark. I used to do it many years ago for several years, but as predicted things pointed out about so and so was returned with something like, that's not true, it's just that sources opinion.
After so much of that for too many years, I don't do it anymore. I just tell people they'll have to do their own homework and prove to themselves about it. If they're not that interested to do that, that's their choice.

 

[Delvianna]

Hello! Interesting discussion. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” (Galatians 5:9). IMHO false teachings can be subtle, even a small change to the direction of travel can lead you to a different destination. The bible also says that false teachers will secretly introduce destructive teachings:

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves (2 Peter 2:1).

I think the thread has quite quickly picked up on obvious false teachers from the prosperity gospel like Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen and Kenneth Copeland and who persecute believers who take a Biblical stand. Also obvious are apostate denomination who promote SSM, LGBQTI and Islamism and who actively persecute those who take a faithful stand, as one elderly couple I know who were ejected from a Presbyterian church they had been members of for half a century, for taking a stand for the bible.

I would raise something that might be more controversial but I believe is one of the big challenges of our day. Christian Contemporary Music. Music has long been recognised as having psychosomatic and even psychedelic qualities, Napoleon used loud martial music to encourage soldiers into near suicidal feats on the battlefield for example. Ancient Pagan temples used music to stir people up into a frenzy and open themselves up to malign influences. In many modern churches there is a deliberate programme of extremely loud repetitive music, rhythmical formerly background instruments like drums are now dominant, sensory deprivation like lowering the lighting and other effects like fog machines, pyrotechnics to manipulate the congregation aka audience. Given these manipulation techniques the oft criticized lyrics of the songs are accepted by the gyrating groupies looking for a high. 'Worship' songs are often called out for being based on feelings, emotions, sometimes even with lyrics that can directly contradict the clear teachings of scripture. Heresies can be introduced through the music, where people's guards seem to be down because of the psychosomatic manipulation techniques in the music.

Furthermore, many churches who might balk at the idea of NAR, Prosperity gospel teachings and the like in their churches seem to be unaware that the tentacles of these organisations are firmly wrapped around their pulpits because of the popular songs the church sing and yes, pay to sing! Simony anyone? Bethel, Elevation, Hillsong and the like. Many a church is paying to sing some of their songs. Pastors might disagree with the teachings of a mega-church, but then pay to sing some of their songs, which are on the same flawed theological base, fruit of the same subtly toxic tree.

God Bless You

Question, while I agree with you that music can be a problem as it can also drum up a false "revival", I'm failing to see how it links to a false teacher? Music is more towards emotional manipulation correct? The idea of feeling like you're having a spiritual experience when it's most likely you're just caught up in the moment, but I'm failing to understand how this, in and of itself goes down the line of false teaching. Would you mind elaborating?

 

[BeckyJ]

Hello! Interesting discussion. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” (Galatians 5:9). IMHO false teachings can be subtle, even a small change to the direction of travel can lead you to a different destination. The bible also says that false teachers will secretly introduce destructive teachings:

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves (2 Peter 2:1).

I think the thread has quite quickly picked up on obvious false teachers from the prosperity gospel like Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen and Kenneth Copeland and who persecute believers who take a Biblical stand. Also obvious are apostate denomination who promote SSM, LGBQTI and Islamism and who actively persecute those who take a faithful stand, as one elderly couple I know who were ejected from a Presbyterian church they had been members of for half a century, for taking a stand for the bible.

I would raise something that might be more controversial but I believe is one of the big challenges of our day. Christian Contemporary Music. Music has long been recognised as having psychosomatic and even psychedelic qualities, Napoleon used loud martial music to encourage soldiers into near suicidal feats on the battlefield for example. Ancient Pagan temples used music to stir people up into a frenzy and open themselves up to malign influences. In many modern churches there is a deliberate programme of extremely loud repetitive music, rhythmical formerly background instruments like drums are now dominant, sensory deprivation like lowering the lighting and other effects like fog machines, pyrotechnics to manipulate the congregation aka audience. Given these manipulation techniques the oft criticized lyrics of the songs are accepted by the gyrating groupies looking for a high. 'Worship' songs are often called out for being based on feelings, emotions, sometimes even with lyrics that can directly contradict the clear teachings of scripture. Heresies can be introduced through the music, where people's guards seem to be down because of the psychosomatic manipulation techniques in the music.

Furthermore, many churches who might balk at the idea of NAR, Prosperity gospel teachings and the like in their churches seem to be unaware that the tentacles of these organisations are firmly wrapped around their pulpits because of the popular songs the church sing and yes, pay to sing! Simony anyone? Bethel, Elevation, Hillsong and the like. Many a church is paying to sing some of their songs. Pastors might disagree with the teachings of a mega-church, but then pay to sing some of their songs, which are on the same flawed theological base, fruit of the same subtly toxic tree.

God Bless You

Some of them can be very subtle for sure.
Yes, CCM is an issue too.
False teachers/preachers, music, churches all are a problem and leading many astray sadly.

Thanks for sharing about the other false things many are caught in!!

 

[dms1972]

Its better to address what some of the false teachings are, and set them in the light of true doctrine, than to just list supposed false teachers. Although Paul does warn about particular individuals in a few of his letters, I think he had prayerfully considered that.

Those who it is alleged are teaching false doctrines, may or may not be, and may in some instances be open to correction. Some may only have a limited grasp of biblical doctrine and need fuller instruction. Others may be over-emphasising some aspect of biblical truth, such as faith-healing.

With that in mind there is a difference between hetrodoxy, and outright heresy.

 

[lismore]

Question, while I agree with you that music can be a problem as it can also drum up a false "revival", I'm failing to see how it links to a false teacher? Music is more towards emotional manipulation correct? The idea of feeling like you're having a spiritual experience when it's most likely you're just caught up in the moment, but I'm failing to understand how this, in and of itself goes down the line of false teaching. Would you mind elaborating?

Hello Delvianna. Thank you for your reply. One primary issue I would say are the lyrics, un-Biblical doctrines are being introduced through the lyrics which often are not Biblically based but are often based on feelings and alleged experiences. Catchy song lyrics can be difficult to get out of your head. I have encountered the view that a mega-churches teachings may be off, but their songs are popular. But won't a church's teachings flow into the songs they write? You raised one relevant issue, 'revival', the shady phenomenon that can mean all things to all men, put 'revival' into song lyrics and worship leaders could be teaching anything. Truth is sometimes not the main criteria in writing CCM, it's popularity. The psychosomatic manipulation techniques in the music are a way to lower people's inhibitions and introduce the false teachings. If people like the beat, the ambience, then the song could be about anything. God Bless You

 

[Delvianna]

Hello Delvianna. Thank you for your reply. One primary issue I would say are the lyrics, un-Biblical doctrines are being introduced through the lyrics which often are not Biblically based but are often based on feelings and alleged experiences. Catchy song lyrics can be difficult to get out of your head. I have encountered the view that a mega-churches teachings may be off, but their songs are popular. But won't a church's teachings flow into the songs they write? You raised one relevant issue, 'revival', the shady phenomenon that can mean all things to all men, put 'revival' into song lyrics and worship leaders could be teaching anything. Truth is sometimes not the main criteria in writing CCM, it's popularity. The psychosomatic manipulation techniques in the music are a way to lower people's inhibitions and introduce the false teachings. If people like the beat, the ambience, then the song could be about anything. God Bless You

Thank you for your response and expanded view! I see what you mean now and I agree, due to the lyrics. There are a lot of lyrics I run across in christian music genre that I would say are unbiblical. So I agree with that. It might be a more subtle form, but agreed.

 

[dms1972]

Hello! Interesting discussion. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” (Galatians 5:9). IMHO false teachings can be subtle, even a small change to the direction of travel can lead you to a different destination. The bible also says that false teachers will secretly introduce destructive teachings:

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves (2 Peter 2:1).

I think the thread has quite quickly picked up on obvious false teachers from the prosperity gospel like Benny Hinn, Joel Olsteen and Kenneth Copeland and who persecute believers who take a Biblical stand. Also obvious are apostate denomination who promote SSM, LGBQTI and Islamism and who actively persecute those who take a faithful stand, as one elderly couple I know who were ejected from a Presbyterian church they had been members of for half a century, for taking a stand for the bible.

I would raise something that might be more controversial but I believe is one of the big challenges of our day. Christian Contemporary Music. Music has long been recognised as having psychosomatic and even psychedelic qualities, Napoleon used loud martial music to encourage soldiers into near suicidal feats on the battlefield for example. Ancient Pagan temples used music to stir people up into a frenzy and open themselves up to malign influences. In many modern churches there is a deliberate programme of extremely loud repetitive music, rhythmical formerly background instruments like drums are now dominant, sensory deprivation like lowering the lighting and other effects like fog machines, pyrotechnics to manipulate the congregation aka audience. Given these manipulation techniques the oft criticized lyrics of the songs are accepted by the gyrating groupies looking for a high, in addition to the pop peer pressure present in many churches. 'Worship' songs are often called out for being based on feelings, emotions, sometimes even with lyrics that can directly contradict the clear teachings of scripture. Heresies can be introduced through the music, where people's guards seem to be down because of the psychosomatic manipulation techniques in the music.

Furthermore, many churches who might balk at the idea of NAR, Prosperity gospel teachings and the like in their churches seem to be unaware that the tentacles of these organisations are firmly wrapped around their pulpits because of the popular songs the church sing and yes, pay to sing! Simony anyone? Bethel, Elevation, Hillsong and the like. Many a church is paying to sing some of their songs. Pastors might disagree with the teachings of a mega-church, but then pay to sing some of their songs, which are on the same flawed theological base, fruit of the same subtly toxic tree.

God Bless You

I mostly agree with you. I recently was watching something on Youtube, and it was a modern christian band, I don't remember who the band was, but the stage had tall lava lamps behind the band! Anyway I didn't think there was an awful lot wrong in that moment, the song was something about "I am fighting a battle that is already won."

Fog machines, in my view, have no place in church services.

Traditional hymns more often were didactic, while choruses allow for more expression of emotion. But choruses never were the mainstay of singing in the Mission Hall I grew up in, and we never had choruses at every service, just occasionally - which I think was fine.

I don't like a lot of instrumentation. Its ok for variety to have three or four instruments, but most of it should be led by an organist or pianist if possible, with maybe some alternation, say with stringed, or woodwind instruments, occasionally. There doesn't need to be a mini orchestra.

But I prefer the Pastor or Minister to be the worship leader and there needs to be congregational singing with a good hymn with solid lyrics which teach, at least once during the service, not merely the congregation swaying and humming and only singing when they feel like it to the "worship band".

 

[timothyu]

and root you into sin that you aren't even aware that you're in.

Like when the religion abandoned the Kingdom and realigned itself with the world of man, causing the religion to suit the world of man rather than the world of man changing to suit the will of God. 1700 years of unawareness because the religion will not teach against itself.

 

[Delvianna]

Like when the religion abandoned the Kingdom and realigned itself with the world of man, causing the religion to suit the world of man rather than the world of man changing to suit the will of God. 1700 years of unawareness because the religion will not teach against itself.

Amen!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Rom 13:1–7 makes it clear that God expects us to obey the laws of the government. The only exception is when a law forces us to disobey a command of God (Acts 5:29).
Illegal immigration breaks a government’s law. There is nothing in Scripture that contradicts the idea of a sovereign nation having immigration laws. Therefore, it is rebellion against God to unlawfully enter another country. Illegal immigration is a sin according to the principles in the Bible.
Illegal immigration is a controversial issue in some countries today. Some argue that the immigration laws are unfair, unjust, and even discriminatory—thus giving individuals justification to immigrate illegally. However, Rom 13:1–7 does not give permission to violate a law just because it is perceived as unjust. Again, the issue is not the fairness of a law. The only biblical reason to violate a government’s law is if that law violates God’s Word.
When Paul wrote the book of Romans, he was under the authority of the Roman Empire, led by Emperor Nero. Under that reign, there were many laws that were unfair, unjust, or blatantly evil. Still, Paul instructed Christians to submit to the government.
Several countries have immigration laws, some more strict than those of the US and some less strict, but all countries have to deal with illegal immigration. There is nothing in the Bible to prohibit a country from having open borders or closed borders.
The Bible does give government the authority to make laws and punish lawbreakers (Rom 13:1–7). Whether the punishment is imprisonment, deportation, or something more severe, a government has the right to enforce its laws.
Illegal immigration is a complex issue. Most illegal immigrants in the US have come for the purpose of seeking a better life, providing for their families, and escaping poverty. These are good goals and motivations.
However, it is not biblical to violate a law to achieve a “good.” Caring for the poor, orphans, and widows is something the Bible commands us to do (Gal 2:10; James 1:27; 2:2–15); however, that biblical mandate does not excuse lawbreaking.
Supporting, enabling, or encouraging illegal immigration is a violation of God’s Word. Those seeking to emigrate to another country should always obey the immigration laws of that country. Yes, dealing with red tape may cause delays and frustrations, but it is better than acting illegally. A frustrating law is still a law.
What is the biblical principle related to immigrating illegally? Simple, don’t do it; obey the laws of the land.
Lawbreaking is not a biblical option, but citizens of the US have many rights under the law, including the right to change the law. If it's your conviction that an immigration law is unjust, do everything legally within your power to get the law changed: pray, petition, vote, peacefully protest, etc.
As Christians, we should be the first to seek to change any law that is truly unjust. At the same time, we are to demonstrate our submission to God by obeying the government He has placed in authority over us.

If what you’re saying is true then no one should’ve preached the gospel in Rome or Jerusalem or any place where is was forbidden by law, and let’s not forget that Paul wrote 4 of his epistles while he was in prison for refusing to cooperate with the governing authorities. He did that because God’s laws supersede man’s laws. And what were the two most important commandments?

 

[BeckyJ]

If what you’re saying is true then no one should’ve preached the gospel in Rome or Jerusalem or any place where is was forbidden by law, and let’s not forget that Paul wrote 4 of his epistles while he was in prison for refusing to cooperate with the governing authorities. He did that because God’s laws supersede man’s laws. And what were the two most important commandments?

What denomination, if any, are you?