God, omnibenevolent or omnipotent and omniscient?

[GoldenKingGaze]

In theodicies we consider God almighty and how evil still occurs. Can God really turn Satan's heart into repentance at any time He wants, or annihilate him?

Some suppose that God has a special purpose for evil we don't know yet. Or God makes some people for Hell, but that isn't good. Then one can look at the beginning of sin among the angels and, why could not God save them, or bring to a quick repentance, or know ahead of time not to create certain angels. Some say evil leads to an appreciation of the constant good, and prevents conceit and arrogance. But if God is omniscient and omnipotent, then He does not need evil for any purpose, outside or inside Himself. God needs Satan? Can God prevent us from free willing bad choices? Because of free will, I do not think He can.

Which gives, to some limit? Onmibenevolence, Omniscience, omnipotence?

 

[Aseyesee]

Free will it seems is always the answer to why there is any such thing as sin in the first place ... in the end, if God had not created (literal) according to the Bible) angels, the problem would have never existed to begin with ... unless you believe sin existed in God before all things and this is his way of purging it out of himself, at the seemingly expense of others, including his only son (who knew no sin) ... which begs the question of why would he purge something from himself that has always been in him in the first place ... a form of circular logic ...

Thought is the beginning of sin ...

The word is not God, it's the content (through perception) of the word that is God to us ...

 

[Hawkins]

The big picture is; Eden and Earth are the pre-models of Heaven where the high intelligence angels (with the fallens named as "crafty snake") interacting with the low intelligence humans. Angels are created with high intelligence and high ability because their existence is as servants participating in God's creations. Humans on the other hand, are given a larger degree of free will.

In an environment such as Eden and Earth, humans are utterly beaten and captive. They have no hope to pass the Final Judgment of Law. They shall be destroyed as a whole by Noah's flood. Jesus' sacrifice at a certain point of humanity saved the situation. Humans now can be saved by the Judgment of Covenant in the replacement of Law which humans have no hope to pass. Repentance is earned by Jesus as a component of the covenants granted to humans but not angels. Both Faith and Repentance are assessments of human characteristics of being correctable after we all sinned to our death (partly as a result of influenced by the high intelligence fallen angels who kept all mankind captive). It doesn't apply to the angels (perhaps it's not their characteristic to repent to be correctable).

When we pass the Final Judgment (of Covenant), it means we are correctable and can be holy to live with the sin-incompatible God in eternity. That said, the fundamental difference between Eden and Earth is that Eden lies within God's current dwellng realm while Earth is lying outside of God's realm. Satan is referred to as "the god of this world" for a reason. Wherever outside of God's dwelling realm, God may withdraw His influence and disconnect Himself from knowing anything about the realm of dead. It's regarded to be a permanent separation from God. God's omniscience is under the control of His omnipotence. God has all the ability to choose not to know how entities sin once they are put to a permanent separation.

In such a permanent separation, it's like a free realm without God. In such a free realm, naturally the most evil and the most powerful will rule at the end, whose name happens to be Satan. If Satan is removed, the next satan will take his place to be the god of this "free realm". Satan is referred to as "the god of this world" because Earth resembles such a "free realm". God hasn't fully withdraw His influence simply because God's job is not yet done. He needs to save His sheep. As such, Earth now is a "wilderness" instead of a "hell". After the Final Judgment, God will make a clear cut with those unsaved put into the permanent separation. They will be living in a "free world" but actually ruled by Satan. That's what hell is.

This universe is not the true nature, it's God-made instead. The true nature should be filled with energy and fire which Satan has no ability to counter. It's prophesied that Satan's realm, that is the "free world" will run into an eternal fire at the end. That's what the Lake of Fire is.

 

[Bob Crowley]

In the cosmic drama, God, angels, demons and humans are all players on the stage.

God is the author, and if He wanted He could stand aloof and allow no evil. But for that to happen He would not be able to create any "free" creature.. In short He would have to remain alone, or perhaps a Trinity by itself and nothing else.

But since He wants to share of Himself, and receive love in return, He has to create lesser beings.

As soon as He gives them what might be called self-realisation, He immediately runs the risk of rebellion, regardless of their intelligence level. Amongst humans there are good geniuses and evil geniuses, good idiots and evil idiots. The difference is that the more intelligent someone is, the more evil he is capable to doing.

If Catholic exorcists are correct, at one point God tested the angels.

From "Interview with an Exorcist" by Fr. Jose Antonia Fortea -

7. Why did God put the demons to the test?

... First, God had to give each rational being a degree of happiness. Everyone in heaven sees God, but no one can enjoy Him to an infinite degree; this is impossible for a finite being. Each finite creature enjoys to the fullest degree possible without wanting more....

God, in his wisdom, decided each angel would determine its degree of glory for eternity by its response to a divine test ... A spirit can grow in its faith and its generosity toward God before it sees Him. But once admitted to the Beatific Vision, no further growth is possible - there can no longer be growth in faith where there is vision....

Offering a being the possibility of faith also supposes the risk that in this same being evil may flourish instead of faith. God, by giving free will to the angels and human beings, knew that freedom, once bestowed, could be used for good or evil. ... a saint is not created; one becomes a saint through the action of grace. The gift of freedom allows for a Hitler as well as a Blessed Teresa of Calcutta (Mother Teresa). Once the gift of freedom has been given, consequences - good or evil - flow from every act of the will...

... The same God who can create the cosmos with only an act of His will cannot create that love that is born and proven in the suffering of the faith. The love of God is not created: it must be freely given by a created being."

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Free will it seems is always the answer to why there is any such thing as sin in the first place ... in the end, if God had not created (literal) according to the Bible) angels, the problem would have never existed to begin with ... unless you believe sin existed in God before all things and this is his way of purging it out of himself, at the seemingly expense of others, including his only son (who knew no sin) ... which begs the question of why would he purge something from himself that has always been in him in the first place ... a form of circular logic ...

Thought is the beginning of sin ...

The word is not God, it's the content (through perception) of the word that is God to us ...

Christians remain within the traditions of Sola Scriptura or according to the Pope and such. So there is no sin or evil in God and He never tempts us.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

In the cosmic drama, God, angels, demons and humans are all players on the stage.

God is the author, and if He wanted He could stand aloof and allow no evil. But for that to happen He would not be able to create any "free" creature.. In short He would have to remain alone, or perhaps a Trinity by itself and nothing else.

But since He wants to share of Himself, and receive love in return, He has to create lesser beings.

As soon as He gives them what might be called self-realisation, He immediately runs the risk of rebellion, regardless of their intelligence level. Amongst humans there are good geniuses and evil geniuses, good idiots and evil idiots. The difference is that the more intelligent someone is, the more evil he is capable to doing.

If Catholic exorcists are correct, at one point God tested the angels.

From "Interview with an Exorcist" by Fr. Jose Antonia Fortea -

I agree that omnipotence does not over rule free will.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The big picture is; Eden and Earth are the pre-models of Heaven where the high intelligence angels (with the fallens named as "crafty snake") interacting with the low intelligence humans. Angels are created with high intelligence and high ability because their existence is as servants participating in God's creations. Humans on the other hand, are given a larger degree of free will.

I'd say the Earth and Eden within it, the Temple Mount being where God made Adam, are much younger than Heaven and the angels. I agree the angels even the fallen ones are far more brilliant than men and women. They are ancients and know God, light, love, Heaven and the framed worlds and other beings extremely well. I think unlike you in that we all have free will much the same. And while angels and sons could petition regarding creation they could not themselves create.

In an environment such as Eden and Earth, humans are utterly beaten and captive. They have no hope to pass the Final Judgment of Law. They shall be destroyed as a whole by Noah's flood. Jesus' sacrifice at a certain point of humanity saved the situation. Humans now can be saved by the Judgment of Covenant in the replacement of Law which humans have no hope to pass. Repentance is earned by Jesus as a component of the covenants granted to humans but not angels. Both Faith and Repentance are assessments of human characteristics of being correctable after we all sinned to our death (partly as a result of influenced by the high intelligence fallen angels who kept all mankind captive). It doesn't apply to the angels (perhaps it's not their characteristic to repent to be correctable).

What is judgment of covenant?
Noah and the seven were saved.
Angels won't repent, perhaps because of pride and the ambition to have more than God will give. The price on God for them is too high. There is a limit of God's power in regards to free will and repentance. Don't you think?
Souls repented before Christ was born. Noah and then Moses with the animals blood covenant. It would seem Joseph's brothers repented.

When we pass the Final Judgment (of Covenant), it means we are correctable and can be holy to live with the sin-incompatible God in eternity. That said, the fundamental difference between Eden and Earth is that Eden lies within God's current dwellng realm while Earth is lying outside of God's realm. Satan is referred to as "the god of this world" for a reason. Wherever outside of God's dwelling realm, God may withdraw His influence and disconnect Himself from knowing anything about the realm of dead. It's regarded to be a permanent separation from God. God's omniscience is under the control of His omnipotence. God has all the ability to choose not to know how entities sin once they are put to a permanent separation.

It is important to explain why God cannot accept sin. As to a youth.
God is omnipresent and the Psalmist David mentions Hell and "even there thou" (art). Psalm 139. God is said in scripture to have all knowledge and knows the end from the beginning, including souls in Hell who will be raised and judged. So in the second resurrection. God is omniscient. We have to hold to sola scriptura and some the popes...
Satan temporarily has Adam's dominion, and he was a god in a sense. Now a stolen dominion. Jesus the second Adam is getting it fully back.
God is good, He faithfully loves us. Even if we are sinners, He loves us.

In such a permanent separation, it's like a free realm without God. In such a free realm, naturally the most evil and the most powerful will rule at the end, whose name happens to be Satan. If Satan is removed, the next satan will take his place to be the god of this "free realm". Satan is referred to as "the god of this world" because Earth resembles such a "free realm". God hasn't fully withdraw His influence simply because God's job is not yet done. He needs to save His sheep. As such, Earth now is a "wilderness" instead of a "hell". After the Final Judgment, God will make a clear cut with those unsaved put into the permanent separation. They will be living in a "free world" but actually ruled by Satan. That's what hell is.

Not all Christians will accept the punishment of Hell is by Satan. There was fire in Hell prepared for the Accuser and his angels.
Fear has torment and Hell is full of that. I agree demonic entities in there union and wiser and stronger than souls.
God can remove all demonic spirits in a moment. Some of my question is, why doesn't He.

This universe is not the true nature, it's God-made instead. The true nature should be filled with energy and fire which Satan has no ability to counter. It's prophesied that Satan's realm, that is the "free world" will run into an eternal fire at the end. That's what the Lake of Fire is.

Satan has already been in fire.
Satan is a defeated enemy now. After Christ died there was the crushing of the serpent's head... Genesis 3:15. We have Christ's blood, fire and resurrection power. All proven.

 

[Aseyesee]

Christians remain within the traditions of Sola Scriptura or according to the Pope and such. So there is no sin or evil in God and He never tempts us.

Can God create something (according to the Bible) that doesn't come from him consciously?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Can God create something (according to the Bible) that doesn't come from him consciously?

Supposing God has a conscious and subconscious, they would be in order, although God never sleeps.

Do you think He created sin in an angel or just knew that that angel would later compose evil on his own?

 

[Aseyesee]

Supposing God has a conscious and subconscious, they would be in order, although God never sleeps.

Do you think He created sin in an angel or just knew that that angel would later compose evil on his own?

I don’t believe in a devil per say (in the same way that I believe God didn’t actually have to come down to see if what he heard was altogether true) … even though an adversary plays its role in us …

Did God, before creating) have anything to measure sin by?

 

[com7fy8]

Which gives, to some limit? Onmibenevolence, Omniscience, omnipotence?

God is omnipotent . . . to me meaning He is the most powerful of all in existence. And so, God at any moment can do any good, at all, in spite of any evil, at all. And no one stops Him. Ones can seem to, by coinciding against what God is not going to do, "anyway"

And God being almighty means He is able to change our character so we are like Jesus > how He is all-loving, perfectly pleasing to our Father, plus almighty in immunity against any and all cruel and nasty and naughty emotions and feelings and drives and thinking. In His love is this almighty immunity while we are functioning in His gentleness and quietness with compassion for any and all people. And this is family caring and sharing love with our others who are sharing with Jesus like this.

God is omniscient . . . to me meaning God does know all because He is present everywhere. Plus, He has memory to remember any and all of the past, hence He is able to bring up all our past in the day of judgment, among other items. And He knows the future, already, if He is in control of all that will happen.

So, then . . . is God omnibenevolent > or, ones say, "all-loving" and "unconditional" in how He loves?

Jesus died on the cross for all > "for the whole world" >

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2)

Also, our Apostle Paul says >

"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)

So, to me this means: if God is "the Savior of all men", then He is all-loving and there are no conditions for Him to love any and all people. And so, by the way, then, if we are going to become like Jesus and share personally with God Himself in us, then we need how God changes our character so we are all-loving unconditionally in sharing with Him in this love which makes us loving like God through Jesus. And this includes loving like Jesus on the cross > we are commanded to love like this >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

And this works by means of God in His grace working and living in us to share with us how He in us so loves any and all people, unconditionally. Plus, God our Creator in us makes us also creative for how to love each and every person. And Jesus enforces this, by saying >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

So, then, what about the more obviously evil people who are into terrorism and attacking and killing unborn people and violating children with anti-sexual ideas and keeping politicians from doing all the good they could do?

"God resists the proud," we have in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5. God who is almighty is now effectively resisting all the wrong people we might know about. God's caring resistance is for our good, but also this is helping evil people to not get into as much trouble and harm as they could. And so God is loving and blessing even the most awful and horrible people that there are.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

God is omnipotent . . . to me meaning He is the most powerful of all in existence. And so, God at any moment can do any good, at all, in spite of any evil, at all. And no one stops Him. Ones can seem to, by coinciding against what God is not going to do, "anyway"

And God being almighty means He is able to change our character so we are like Jesus > how He is all-loving, perfectly pleasing to our Father, plus almighty in immunity against any and all cruel and nasty and naughty emotions and feelings and drives and thinking. In His love is this almighty immunity while we are functioning in His gentleness and quietness with compassion for any and all people. And this is family caring and sharing love with our others who are sharing with Jesus like this.

God is omniscient . . . to me meaning God does know all because He is present everywhere. Plus, He has memory to remember any and all of the past, hence He is able to bring up all our past in the day of judgment, among other items. And He knows the future, already, if He is in control of all that will happen.

So, then . . . is God omnibenevolent > or, ones say, "all-loving" and "unconditional" in how He loves?

Jesus died on the cross for all > "for the whole world" >

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2)

Also, our Apostle Paul says >

"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)

So, to me this means: if God is "the Savior of all men", then He is all-loving and there are no conditions for Him to love any and all people. And so, by the way, then, if we are going to become like Jesus and share personally with God Himself in us, then we need how God changes our character so we are all-loving unconditionally in sharing with Him in this love which makes us loving like God through Jesus. And this includes loving like Jesus on the cross > we are commanded to love like this >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

And this works by means of God in His grace working and living in us to share with us how He in us so loves any and all people, unconditionally. Plus, God our Creator in us makes us also creative for how to love each and every person. And Jesus enforces this, by saying >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

So, then, what about the more obviously evil people who are into terrorism and attacking and killing unborn people and violating children with anti-sexual ideas and keeping politicians from doing all the good they could do?

"God resists the proud," we have in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5. God who is almighty is now effectively resisting all the wrong people we might know about. God's caring resistance is for our good, but also this is helping evil people to not get into as much trouble and harm as they could. And so God is loving and blessing even the most awful and horrible people that there are.

What do you think about God's omnipotence and our free will in regards to choice?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I don’t believe in a devil per say (in the same way that I believe God didn’t actually have to come down to see if what he heard was altogether true) … even though an adversary plays its role in us …

Did God, before creating) have anything to measure sin by?

Being omniscient, from the beginning He planned the cross work.