False Preachers/Teachers

[Delvianna]

I have never warned anyone about a specific person or teaching and it’s unlikely I will. Some lessons must be experienced firsthand. Others require the soil to be primed and that’s the Holy Spirit’s domain. And the last is borne from experience. You can only influence someone to the degree they permit and you’ll never exceed their threshold. If they don’t value your input they’ll never listen. That’s human nature.

Christians are quick to rush in without ever considering if its the right time or messenger. That’s why I ask if it’s a word from the Lord because I know it isn’t and I know when I’m in the presence of someone with a word of knowledge for me and those are the discussions I pursue when advice is shared.



What ensnares one person may have no effect on someone else. We’re susceptible in some areas and less so in others.

~bella

I dont agree because preventing someone from stumbling is better than letting them stumble. But I see we will have to agree to disagree. Blessings ❤

 

[BeckyJ]

Would you say that holding to the traditions of men over the teachings of Christ would be considered a false theology like for example turning away millions of people who are in need because they crossed a boarder illegally? Would you say that someone who supports this idea is a false teacher?

Rom 13:1–7 makes it clear that God expects us to obey the laws of the government. The only exception is when a law forces us to disobey a command of God (Acts 5:29).
Illegal immigration breaks a government’s law. There is nothing in Scripture that contradicts the idea of a sovereign nation having immigration laws. Therefore, it is rebellion against God to unlawfully enter another country. Illegal immigration is a sin according to the principles in the Bible.
Illegal immigration is a controversial issue in some countries today. Some argue that the immigration laws are unfair, unjust, and even discriminatory—thus giving individuals justification to immigrate illegally. However, Rom 13:1–7 does not give permission to violate a law just because it is perceived as unjust. Again, the issue is not the fairness of a law. The only biblical reason to violate a government’s law is if that law violates God’s Word.
When Paul wrote the book of Romans, he was under the authority of the Roman Empire, led by Emperor Nero. Under that reign, there were many laws that were unfair, unjust, or blatantly evil. Still, Paul instructed Christians to submit to the government.
Several countries have immigration laws, some more strict than those of the US and some less strict, but all countries have to deal with illegal immigration. There is nothing in the Bible to prohibit a country from having open borders or closed borders.
The Bible does give government the authority to make laws and punish lawbreakers (Rom 13:1–7). Whether the punishment is imprisonment, deportation, or something more severe, a government has the right to enforce its laws.
Illegal immigration is a complex issue. Most illegal immigrants in the US have come for the purpose of seeking a better life, providing for their families, and escaping poverty. These are good goals and motivations.
However, it is not biblical to violate a law to achieve a “good.” Caring for the poor, orphans, and widows is something the Bible commands us to do (Gal 2:10; James 1:27; 2:2–15); however, that biblical mandate does not excuse lawbreaking.
Supporting, enabling, or encouraging illegal immigration is a violation of God’s Word. Those seeking to emigrate to another country should always obey the immigration laws of that country. Yes, dealing with red tape may cause delays and frustrations, but it is better than acting illegally. A frustrating law is still a law.
What is the biblical principle related to immigrating illegally? Simple, don’t do it; obey the laws of the land.
Lawbreaking is not a biblical option, but citizens of the US have many rights under the law, including the right to change the law. If it's your conviction that an immigration law is unjust, do everything legally within your power to get the law changed: pray, petition, vote, peacefully protest, etc.
As Christians, we should be the first to seek to change any law that is truly unjust. At the same time, we are to demonstrate our submission to God by obeying the government He has placed in authority over us.

 

[BeckyJ]

I’m perfectly capable of gleaning where needed and avoiding what I find unprofitable. I’m not that delicate where I can’t chew the fat and spit out the bones which comes with maturity. I don’t get wrapped up into false this or that. Most of it is subjective and someone always disagrees.

~bella

Never said you were delicate. I'm not either.
But the Bible warns about marking and avoiding false teachers.
You may not "get wrapped up", but that's what the devil can use. He wants people to be open to false teachers.
Since the Bible speaks of "false this or that" it should be something we all consider.
Who cares who disagrees. The Bible doesn't imply it's a subjective thing.

 

[bèlla]

Never said you were delicate. I'm not either.
But the Bible warns about marking and avoiding false teachers.
You may not "get wrapped up", but that's what the devil can use. He wants people to be open to false teachers.
Since the Bible speaks of "false this or that" it should be something we all consider.
Who cares who disagrees. The Bible doesn't imply it's a subjective thing.

Who said I was open to anything? Consider your response in light of the following.

You know nothing about my personal walk with God and nor did you ask.
You don’t know my spiritual gifts, anointing or calling.
Nor my experiences or prayer life for that matter.

You provided a generic answer and that’s the problem. It’s like throwing spaghetti on a wall and seeing what sticks. That’s not the way you reach someone or influence them either. You speak to their condition and circumstances.

~bella

 

[timothyu]

Christianity itself hasn't been off track with anything.

Yet it rejected the Kingdom to re-join the world of man. That's as off-track as you can get. The Kingdom is a counter-culture to the world of man. It is impossible for the two to work in tandem. Jesus was clear about this when He dealt with the Temple. Jesus rejected the world of man as a teacher and also in the desert with the Tempter. The same would apply today to followers that are not false teachers. They would openly be of the counter-culture rejecting the self-serving ways of mankind.

 

[BeckyJ]

Becky, we can compile list upon list of all those whom any of us thinks qualify as a "false teacher," but doing so doesn't clearly, distinctly, systematically nor comprehensively identify what the exact "official" teaching is or as to what it should be. It also doesn't indicate any kind of official set of hermeneutical criteria by which any of us can definitively say, "Yeah, that person is off and I know that that person isn't a real Christian."

We need to be careful with all of this, even if some of the most extreme examples stand out like a sore thumb. This thread is in the Christian Philosophy section of the forums and as a self-identified 'Christian Philosopher,' I'm slightly concerned because without exacting criteria (if they can even be had), we run the risk of anathematizing each other way too easily. And with the way the discussion is going so far with just notional heuristics being alluded to, it would be all too easy to make someone like myself out to be a "false teacher." If any of my fellow Trinitarian Christian brethren think to take it upon themselves to decry what I say (even though I'm not a teacher per say-----just an amateur philosopher), I can't say that I think they're justified epistemologically in doing so.

Who here has the supreme word on what has to constitute "orthodoxy"? (.... uh oh, here's comes the dogpile!! )

If a thread like this causes you concern, you're free to go to another.
You being a "self identified christian philosopher" doesn't make your opinion any more important than any one elses.
No one in the group is being condemned. One of the group rules says we can't say certain things about those inside the group. This post is about those outside of the group.
Your main concern is probably you're one of those who think names shouldn't be named, so you want to kind of shut this post down. The Bible disagrees about not naming names.
"it would be all too easy to make someone like myself out to be a "false teacher."" Umm, but I don't see you as a teacher, so I can't call you false. You, just like me, are just another person in the forum sharing our opinions about things.
God and the Bible are the guide, not any person on earth...
Exposing those who stray from the truth and naming them is done in the New Testament, in fact the apostle Paul and even John himself named a few of them in their epistles:
- Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. ~ 1 Timothy 1:20
- This you know, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me, of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. ~ 2 Timothy 1:15
- And their word will eat as does a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus, who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. ~ 2 Timothy 2: 17-18
- Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. ~ 2 Timothy 2: 3:8
- For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. ~ 2 Timothy 4:10
- Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: of whom be you ware also; for he has greatly withstood our words. ~ 2 Timothy 4:14-15
- I wrote to the church: but Diotrephes, who love to have the preeminence among them, receive us not. Why, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he does, prating us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither he himself receive the brothers, and forbids them that would, and cast them out of the church. ~ 3 John 1:9-10
- Woe to them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. ~ Jude 1:11
So there is nothing wrong with naming names of false preachers/teachers. Christians are supposed to warn others of those who are false preachers/teachers. There is nothing unBiblical about doing so. You aren't judging them as in their value as a fellow human being.....you are discerning whether they are false preachers/teachers leading people astray.

 

[BeckyJ]

We are called to warn against false teachers. (Ephesians 5:11, Titus 1:9-11) Slander is making false statements about someone. So if someone is saying someone said something they didn't, that's wrong in general. But to say, watch out for this person and here is why, isn't unbiblical when we're told to avoid false teachers. How do you avoid someone you don't know is false? Paul didn't say, sit and learn from them so you can accept the good and toss the bad, he said avoid (Romans 16:17-18).

Good point!!

 

[BeckyJ]

Yet it rejected the Kingdom to re-join the world of man. That's as off-track as you can get. The Kingdom is a counter-culture to the world of man. It is impossible for the two to work in tandem. Jesus was clear about this when He dealt with the Temple. Jesus rejected the world of man as a teacher and also in the desert with the Tempter. The same would apply today to followers that are not false teachers. They would openly be of the counter-culture rejecting the self-serving ways of mankind.

Jesus Christ is Christianity. He is the head of it. So no, Christianity didn't "get off track" since Jesus can't.
Can some of his followers, sure, but Lord willing they will reject that and fully return to Him.
Unless you're referring to something your religion teaches, we may be misunderstanding each other.

 

[BeckyJ]

Who said I was open to anything? Consider your response in light of the following.

You know nothing about my personal walk with God and nor did you ask.
You don’t know my spiritual gifts, anointing or calling.
Nor my experiences or prayer life for that matter.

You provided a generic answer and that’s the problem. It’s like throwing spaghetti on a wall and seeing what sticks. That’s not the way you reach someone or influence them either. You speak to their condition and circumstances.

~bella

Oh boy. If you disagree with this post so much, move on to another.
I'm not coming against you personally. I'm against false teachers/preachers.
tbh, you did say you are open to Joyce Meyer and could spit out what you didn't see as good, so ‍♀️

 

[timothyu]

Jesus Christ is Christianity. He is the head of it.

Providing what you mean is, it is about Jesus and His only Gospel, and not the religion that grew out of Him where the blind have led the blind down a different path right back into the world and away from the Kingdom

 

[PloverWing]

I think it’s more productive to just discuss theology instead of naming people who preach incorrectly. Simply providing names doesn’t demonstrate what’s wrong with their theology, it’s not edifying anyone because it’s not educating anyone. It’s just pointing fingers at others who might actually be true followers in Christ who simply misunderstand the scriptures but in reality actually walk in the Spirit.

Becky, we can compile list upon list of all those whom any of us thinks qualify as a "false teacher," but doing so doesn't clearly, distinctly, systematically nor comprehensively identify what the exact "official" teaching is or as to what it should be. It also doesn't indicate any kind of official set of hermeneutical criteria by which any of us can definitively say, "Yeah, that person is off and I know that that person isn't a real Christian."

We get "who is a false teacher" threads in CF every so often, and I think these posts have clarified for me why these threads make me feel uncomfortable.

People aren't true or false; statements are true or false. "Pastor Smith" isn't true or false, because he is a person, not a truth claim. "Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead" is a statement that's true or false. With complex theological statements, we might get into territory like "partly true" or "historically fiction but conveying truth metaphorically", but at least the categories of true/false are applicable.

Is it a question of assigning authority to Pastor Smith? Are there folks who listen to Pastor Smith in the pulpit or on YouTube and take his word for what's true -- so that they'd be misled if he preaches something that's false, because they trust him to teach only what's true? I can see that being a problem, but, honestly, it's been a long time since I viewed a pastor in that way. I take for granted that everyone says some true things and some false things, and that we're really just talking about the ratio of true to false things.

I prefer the approach of evaluating theological statements, and even there, my evaluations are going to be things like "That's consistent with the early creeds" or "That's similar to what I've read in Calvin's Institutes" or "That's a very unusual statement for someone in the Quaker tradition". Consistency, I know how to evaluate. Truth, hmm, now there's a challenge.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If a thread like this causes you concern, you're free to go to another.
You being a "self identified christian philosopher" doesn't make your opinion any more important than any one elses.
No one in the group is being condemned. One of the group rules says we can't say certain things about those inside the group. This post is about those outside of the group.
Your main concern is probably you're one of those who think names shouldn't be named, so you want to kind of shut this post down. The Bible disagrees about not naming names.

Probably? It's best to ask your interlocutor for context and clarification about what he's said rather than offer a "probable" interpretation of what it is you think he actually thinks. I have little problem with naming names, but I put much, much more emphasis upon holding people accountable for their interpretive criteria, especially if and when I see people, whether they're Christian or non-Christian, state that the Biblical writings are ultra clear,discernible and comprehensive in meaning and application.

"it would be all too easy to make someone like myself out to be a "false teacher."" Umm, but I don't see you as a teacher, so I can't call you false. You, just like me, are just another person in the forum sharing our opinions about things.
God and the Bible are the guide, not any person on earth...
Exposing those who stray from the truth and naming them is done in the New Testament, in fact the apostle Paul and even John himself named a few of them in their epistles:
- Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. ~ 1 Timothy 1:20
- This you know, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me, of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. ~ 2 Timothy 1:15
- And their word will eat as does a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus, who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. ~ 2 Timothy 2: 17-18
- Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. ~ 2 Timothy 2: 3:8
- For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. ~ 2 Timothy 4:10
- Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: of whom be you ware also; for he has greatly withstood our words. ~ 2 Timothy 4:14-15
- I wrote to the church: but Diotrephes, who love to have the preeminence among them, receive us not. Why, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he does, prating us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither he himself receive the brothers, and forbids them that would, and cast them out of the church. ~ 3 John 1:9-10
- Woe to them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. ~ Jude 1:11
So there is nothing wrong with naming names of false preachers/teachers. Christians are supposed to warn others of those who are false preachers/teachers. There is nothing unBiblical about doing so. You aren't judging them as in their value as a fellow human being.....you are discerning whether they are false preachers/teachers leading people astray.

[Edited for clarity]

I have absolutely zero problem with naming names. On the other hand, it is true that I hold a minimalist Trinitarian position as a 21st century analytic who permits some latitude in conceptualization, interpretation and expression of the contents of the Christian Faith because it isn't always so easy to interpret and discern. It's also one reason I have studied widely the historical and pluralized panorama of the Christian Faith as it has gone through changes century by century over the past nearly 2,000 years.

As a philosopher, the problem here is that when we cite something as "wrong," we have to have a clear and distinct set of criteria open and knowable by all by which to measure (and test) the correctness or incorrectness of another person's ideas. It's not enough for any of us to say, "I have a Bible, so I'm good to go....!!!

This also is another reason why I study biblical hermeneutics and exegesis, even from among each of the various dozen major competing denominational strands of Christianity. Does this make me an expert? No. Does this make me a final authority that anyone else must bend to? No. But it does mean I'm aware of the ways in which various denominations and some individual people have conceptualized and expressed their own interpretive understanding of the Christian faith and the contents of the Biblical letters and books.

But sure, sometimes we should name names if and when someone has proven themselves to consistently "get it wrong" on many points and they continue to do so in an ongoing manner without apparent reflection and discernment.

 

[bèlla]

Oh boy. If you disagree with this post so much, move on to another.
I'm not coming against you personally. I'm against false teachers/preachers.
tbh, you did say you are open to Joyce Meyer and could spit out what you didn't see as good, so ‍♀️

I never said I was open to Joyce. I saw a post and looked her up on YouTube to see what she was up to. I haven’t listened to her for years. Before you hand out evictions let me remind you where you are. The thread is posted in discussion and debate. Which doesn’t require agreement to participate.

~bella

 

[BeckyJ]

I never said I was open to Joyce. I saw a post and looked her up on YouTube to see what she was up to. I haven’t listened to her for years. Before you hand out evictions let me remind you where you are. The thread is posted in discussion and debate. Which doesn’t require agreement to participate.

~bella

You said: "I haven’t heard her in years. Her book Battlefield of the Mind is good. She wrote it long ago. But I decided to check her out and looked on YouTube. She has a sermon on the Ways We Waste Time and I’m sure it will be edifying. If you don’t see me around you’ll know why. ;-)"

By being open to her I mean, in bold, it shows you are open to her writings, videos...thus open to her.
After marking and avoiding her long ago, I'm not open to her and don't read her books or watch her videos.
evictions? lol. I can't evict you from here since I'm not an admin.
I'm well aware of where I am, lol.

 

[bèlla]

You said: "I haven’t heard her in years. Her book Battlefield of the Mind is good. She wrote it long ago. But I decided to check her out and looked on YouTube. She has a sermon on the Ways We Waste Time and I’m sure it will be edifying. If you don’t see me around you’ll know why. ;-)"

By being open to her I mean, in bold, it shows you are open to her writings, videos...thus open to her.
After marking and avoiding her long ago, I'm not open to her and don't read her books or watch her videos.
evictions? lol. I can't evict you from here since I'm not an admin.
I'm well aware of where I am, lol.

Once again you’re making assumptions. I read the book a long time ago and it was good. I have no qualms giving kudos if it’s warranted. I saw the sermon and intended to listen but I’m in the middle of canning projects and will check it out later. And it probably will be edifying. I have a lot on my plate as a business owner, content creator, urban homesteader and student. I’m always seeking ways to improve my time management and productivity. Hence the comment about disappearing.

I don’t have your concerns about false teachers nor am I easily deceived. And to be quite honest I don’t care what anyone does. It’s none of my business. That’s between them and God. If you like someone or feel otherwise I’m not going to comment unless you ask.

~bella

 

[BeckyJ]

Once again you’re making assumptions. I read the book a long time ago and it was good. I have no qualms giving kudos if it’s warranted. I saw the sermon and intended to listen but I’m in the middle of canning projects and will check it out later. And it probably will be edifying. I have a lot on my plate as a business owner, content creator, urban homesteader and student. I’m always seeking ways to improve my time management and productivity. Hence the comment about disappearing.
I don’t have your concerns about false teachers nor am I easily deceived. And to be quite honest I don’t care what anyone does. It’s none of my business. That’s between them and God. If you like someone or feel otherwise I’m not going to comment unless you ask.

You're not innocent on the assumption part.

"I don’t have your concerns about false teachers nor am I easily deceived. And to be quite honest I don’t care what anyone does. It’s none of my business. That’s between them and God. If you like someone or feel otherwise I’m not going to comment unless you ask."

LOL. You blew that theory out of the water when you started interacting with this post.

 

[Soyeong]

There will be a variety of opinions on who is and isn't, but that's ok.

According to the Bible, a false teacher is someone who teaches doctrines that contradict the core message of the gospel and the teachings of Jesus Christ, often disguised as a genuine follower of Christ. A wolf in sheep's clothing.
A key characteristic is that their teachings do not align with the sound instructions of Jesus and the Bible. They promote a different doctrine that leads to ungodliness.
Ultimately, they are identified by their fruit and they lead people away from the truth of God and the Bible.

There are many false preachers/teachers in the world. For the well known ones, who all do you see as false teachers?

Some that come to mind for me are: Benny Hinn, Paula Cain, Ben Creamer, Joel Osteen.

According to Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Torah.

 

[timothyu]

is if they teach against obeying the Torah.

Which is actually obeying His commands within the Torah.