False Preachers/Teachers

[BeckyJ]

Joyce Meyer is another one. She's a prosperity teacher and teaches that if you have wealth, clearly God favors you. So if you're poor, guess you're just out of luck with God. She also preaches that if you're sick, well that's because you lack faith. Faithful people never get sick. She also preaches that you can "speak" whatever you want into existence, health, wealth or success in your career. And if you have any hardships or trials, they apparently don't exist and its because of your own bad choices or lack of faith.

She is.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[Delvianna]

Do warnings count? Because I've been on the fence about Voddie Bauchman for a while. While I have heard some unbiblical teachings (Like calling children vipers in diapers), you could say that some of it is over stuff thats widely debated or things that aren't necessarily a big deal. But I've seen him on interviews and him preach and he comes off very prideful and arrogant and some of his decisions aren't the greatest (like doing a gofundme to raise money for heart surgery when the money raised questions about transparency in initial estimates of the cost of the procedure where they didnt answer questions about specifics of where the money was going or saying daughters should live at home until they're married where the father selects the husband). But I'm not sure if that's enough to classify as "false teacher". While there are interviews of people who say his teachings led to problems within their home (abuse of father-daughter role since he teaches that fathers word is absolute), I could say some of what he says is dangerous or bad, but I dunno where I stand, I guess I'll throw his name out there if anyone wants to dig further into him.

 

[bèlla]

or saying daughters should live at home until they're married where the father selects the husband).

The quality of men and women has dramatically diminished overall and the majority choose their companion with little to no parental input or wise counsel. As for remaining at home, you’ll minimize a lot of temptations and problems that arise when you live at home not to mention the money.

Any parent worth their salt will protect their investment. The wretched ones are always preying on the naive and virtuous. Placing a barrier in their way is smart. And given the economy and its increasing hardships. You have to be 50 shades of shrewd to avoid a problem. Because a lot of people are pretending.

I saw a poll yesterday directed to me and they asked if it was more important for her to be a virgin or debt free. And the overwhelming response concerning virginity was no. It wasn’t a factor for them. But the majority agreed that having a partner who’s debt free would be nice. Although they’re aware it’s unlikely to occur. That’s a reflection of what’s happening in society and the financial strain many are experiencing.

I agree with him and I’ve witnessed the wisdom of that perspective with my daughter. We put a plan in place with the future in mind. She isn’t meeting someone and making a decision based on emotions or hormones. There’s too much at stake. You can’t choose a life partner until you know who you are and where you’re heading. And I think it’s important to be honest about the life you want and specific. Then you’ll have an idea of what it takes to get there and who you require beside you to do so.

That’s our approach. Some people prefer to leave things to chance or figure them out as they go.

~bella

 

[Delvianna]

The quality of men and women has dramatically diminished overall and the majority choose their companion with little to no parental input or wise counsel. As for remaining at home, you’ll minimize a lot of temptations and problems that arise when you live at home not to mention the money.

Any parent worth their salt will protect their investment. The wretched ones are always preying on the naive and virtuous. Placing a barrier in their way is smart. And given the economy and its increasing hardships. You have to be 50 shades of shrewd to avoid a problem. Because a lot of people are pretending.

I saw a poll yesterday directed to me and they asked if it was more important for her to be a virgin or debt free. And the overwhelming response concerning virginity was no. It wasn’t a factor for them. But the majority agreed that having a partner who’s debt free would be nice. Although they’re aware it’s unlikely to occur. That’s a reflection of what’s happening in society and the financial strain many are experiencing.

I agree with him and I’ve witnessed the wisdom of that perspective with my daughter. We put a plan in place with the future in mind. She isn’t meeting someone and making a decision based on emotions or hormones. There’s too much at stake. You can’t choose a life partner until you know who you are and where you’re heading. And I think it’s important to be honest about the life you want and specific. Then you’ll have an idea of what it takes to get there and who you require beside you to do so.

That’s our approach. Some people prefer to leave things to chance or figure them out as they go.

~bella

I agree but I think hes taking it too far to say it's a requirement. God never forces us, and I don't think parents should force their adult children either. To say the father has absolute authority IS a recipie for disaster and also saying the father picks out the spouse implies no input from the daughter. This is the case in one instance where I read her father "forbid" her from going to college. Influence is good, but preaching dictatorship is not.

 

[bèlla]

I agree but I think hes taking it too far to say it's a requirement. God never forces us, and I don't think parents should force their adult children either. To say the father has absolute authority IS a recipie for disaster and also saying the father picks out the spouse implies no input from the daughter. This is the case in one instance where I read her father "forbid" her from going to college. Influence is good, but preaching dictatorship is not.

Each household must determine how to conduct their affairs while honoring the Lord. I wouldn’t describe anything as abusive without substantial proof. A difference of perspective or custom doesn’t make it so. Arranged marriages exist in many circles both religious and otherwise and approval is usually a must in wealthy families.

It isn’t unheard of and blanket statements aren’t helpful for obvious reasons. Everyone’s circumstances and priorities differ. What matters to one may be unimportant to the next and that’s okay.

~bella

 

[Delvianna]

Each household must determine how to conduct their affairs while honoring the Lord. I wouldn’t describe anything as abusive without substantial proof. A difference of perspective or custom doesn’t make it so. Arranged marriages exist in many circles both religious and otherwise and approval is usually a must in wealthy families.

It isn’t unheard of and blanket statements aren’t helpful for obvious reasons. Everyone’s circumstances and priorities differ. What matters to one may be unimportant to the next and that’s okay.

~bella

Which is true, I'm just stating my viewpoints and why I didnt automatically list him as a false teacher, but more of a warning for others to make their own discernment against.

 

[bèlla]

She is.
Thanks for sharing!

I haven’t heard her in years. Her book Battlefield of the Mind is good. She wrote it long ago. But I decided to check her out and looked on YouTube. She has a sermon on the Ways We Waste Time and I’m sure it will be edifying. If you don’t see me around you’ll know why. ;-)

~bella

 

[timothyu]

No, on both since it's a person that is doing it.

What I am saying is the false message is first and foremost and sets out the messenger as false. But this also means that the Christian religion has been off-track since it re-joined the world of man that Jesus rejected in the desert, hence the list of false teachers would be endless to date.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wow. So far in the 4 replies received there is a total ignoring of the post question, or advice..that wasn't asked for nor applicable, or assumptions made that are false, or a tip toeing around the post question, indirectly answering.
Interesting.
I listed some I see as false preachers/teachers in my post.
But following the Bible's lead on doing this is what I'm looking for in seeing who you think are false preachers/teachers that are well known to most.
Exposing those who stray from the truth and naming them is done in the New Testament, in fact the apostle Paul and even John himself named a few of them in their epistles:
- Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. ~ 1 Timothy 1:20
- This you know, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me, of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. ~ 2 Timothy 1:15
- And their word will eat as does a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus, who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. ~ 2 Timothy 2: 17-18
- Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. ~ 2 Timothy 2: 3:8
- For Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. ~ 2 Timothy 4:10
- Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: of whom be you ware also; for he has greatly withstood our words. ~ 2 Timothy 4:14-15
- I wrote to the church: but Diotrephes, who love to have the preeminence among them, receive us not. Why, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he does, prating us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither he himself receive the brothers, and forbids them that would, and cast them out of the church. ~ 3 John 1:9-10
- Woe to them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. ~ Jude 1:11

So there is nothing wrong with naming names of false preachers/teachers. Christians are supposed to warn others of those who are false preachers/teachers. There is nothing unBiblical about doing so. You aren't judging them as in their value as a fellow human being.....you are discerning whether they are false preachers/teachers leading people astray.
So maybe some will reply to the actual point of the post in sharing some names of those they see as false preachers/teachers.

I think it’s more productive to just discuss theology instead of naming people who preach incorrectly. Simply providing names doesn’t demonstrate what’s wrong with their theology, it’s not edifying anyone because it’s not educating anyone. It’s just pointing fingers at others who might actually be true followers in Christ who simply misunderstand the scriptures but in reality actually walk in the Spirit.

 

[BeckyJ]

Do warnings count? Because I've been on the fence about Voddie Bauchman for a while. While I have heard some unbiblical teachings (Like calling children vipers in diapers), you could say that some of it is over stuff thats widely debated or things that aren't necessarily a big deal. But I've seen him on interviews and him preach and he comes off very prideful and arrogant and some of his decisions aren't the greatest (like doing a gofundme to raise money for heart surgery when the money raised questions about transparency in initial estimates of the cost of the procedure where they didnt answer questions about specifics of where the money was going or saying daughters should live at home until they're married where the father selects the husband). But I'm not sure if that's enough to classify as "false teacher". While there are interviews of people who say his teachings led to problems within their home (abuse of father-daughter role since he teaches that fathers word is absolute), I could say some of what he says is dangerous or bad, but I dunno where I stand, I guess I'll throw his name out there if anyone wants to dig further into him.

Voddie Baucham is close to a false teacher, though the line is somewhat vague depending on the topic.
I've marked and avoided him from a Biblical perspective since he's near the edge.
Some things I agreed with him on and some I didn't.
I haven't listened to him for years, but going from the things you've shared...
Children are not vipers in diapers. If any parent thinks that, it says more about them than anything.
I never thought he came across any more prideful and arrogant than other preachers/teachers in the public eye do. Some can be very arrogant and prideful, but just keep it hidden better.
To the gofundme...I never heard he did that, but given some of the crazy things some do a gofundme for, I have no issue if someone needs it for a legit medical thing...the costs are crazy.
I have no issue with a daughter living at home for as long as she needs to. I didn't move out until my mid 20's. Now days with things being so expensive, I don't blame those who are still living at home tbh.
Yeah, the father being the only one selecting the husband isn't something I'm into, but for some it works. Look at the divorce rates tbh, too many people make horrible choices on their own due to a variety of reasons, so if the dad wants to put his 2 cents in, that's fine. After being happily married several years myself, I do think more people should atleast get their parent's opinion on a potential mate. Those of us who are married can sometimes notice something off about the person/relationship, that the one in it can't see. So I think there should be some parental insight sought usually.
To the farther's word is absolute, I agree with it to a point. In that under a certan age a kid should obey their parents unless the parent is asking them to do something that is illegal or unBiblical. Most parents don't, so the child who is under 18 and still living at home should obey them. I know some are of the mindset that the child under 18 should be able to do what they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone. That's not good.
I know someone who knows one of his daughters. She says the daughter, who is married, is a normal young woman with a good heart. So the private things Voddie has done in his own home with his 9 children I think are risky to judge since the whole story we haven't been privy to.
But from a Biblical perspective that he preaches/teaches from we can discern/judge if it's right or wrong, I think it's fair to put Voddie in the Warning status since some of his teachings/preachings on Biblical things aren't as they should be.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[BeckyJ]

I haven’t heard her in years. Her book Battlefield of the Mind is good. She wrote it long ago. But I decided to check her out and looked on YouTube. She has a sermon on the Ways We Waste Time and I’m sure it will be edifying. If you don’t see me around you’ll know why. ;-)

~bella

You can listen to any false teacher you want.

 

[BeckyJ]

What I am saying is the false message is first and foremost and sets out the messenger as false. But this also means that the Christian religion has been off-track since it re-joined the world of man that Jesus rejected in the desert, hence the list of false teachers would be endless to date.

The false message goes no where without a false teacher/preacher sharing it.
Christianity itself hasn't been off track with anything. Now some who claim to be christian have gotten off track, but that's a different issue.
Yes, the list of false teachers/preachers is long, but that doesn't surprise God and it shouldn't surprise us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I only found this rule saying: "Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed."

As far as I can tell your recall is in error...in that the rule I just found shows it only applies to those in this forum.
So yes, those outside of the forum can be called fake Christians or False Teachers and thing like that as far as I can tell.

Would you say that holding to the traditions of men over the teachings of Christ would be considered a false theology like for example turning away millions of people who are in need because they crossed a boarder illegally? Would you say that someone who supports this idea is a false teacher?

 

[bèlla]

You can listen to any false teacher you want.

I’m perfectly capable of gleaning where needed and avoiding what I find unprofitable. I’m not that delicate where I can’t chew the fat and spit out the bones which comes with maturity. I don’t get wrapped up into false this or that. Most of it is subjective and someone always disagrees.

~bella

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The false message goes no where without a false teacher/preacher sharing it.
Christianity itself hasn't been off track with anything. Now some who claim to be christian have gotten off track, but that's a different issue.
Yes, the list of false teachers/preachers is long, but that doesn't surprise God and it shouldn't surprise us.

Becky, we can compile list upon list of all those whom any of us thinks qualify as a "false teacher," but doing so doesn't clearly, distinctly, systematically nor comprehensively identify what the exact "official" teaching is or as to what it should be. It also doesn't indicate any kind of official set of hermeneutical criteria by which any of us can definitively say, "Yeah, that person is off and I know that that person isn't a real Christian."

We need to be careful with all of this, even if some of the most extreme examples stand out like a sore thumb. This thread is in the Christian Philosophy section of the forums and as a self-identified 'Christian Philosopher,' I'm slightly concerned because without exacting criteria (if they can even be had), we run the risk of anathematizing each other way too easily. And with the way the discussion is going so far with just notional heuristics being alluded to, it would be all too easy to make someone like myself out to be a "false teacher." If any of my fellow Trinitarian Christian brethren think to take it upon themselves to decry what I say (even though I'm not a teacher per say-----just an amateur philosopher), I can't say that I think they're justified epistemologically in doing so.

Who here has the supreme word on what has to constitute "orthodoxy"? (.... uh oh, here's comes the dogpile!! )

 

[bèlla]

I think it’s more productive to just discuss theology instead of naming people who preach incorrectly. Simply providing names doesn’t demonstrate what’s wrong with their theology, it’s not edifying anyone because it’s not educating anyone. It’s just pointing fingers at others who might actually be true followers in Christ who simply misunderstand the scriptures but in reality actually walk in the Spirit.

I agree and it broaches on slander too much for my tastes. Many believe they can say what they want to online and that isn’t true. Cease and desist requests and defamation suits happen frequently and some of them are initiated by christian pastors and teachers.

Piers Morgan had an infamous situation not that long ago. He permitted someone to come on his channel and make allegations against a well-known person without qualifying the statements as alleged and the papers were filed that evening. He had to recant and apologize the following day. Deservedly so.

Don’t get me wrong. You can say what you want to at home. But when you do the same in print or with a microphone in public there has to be a line because words can be harmful.

~bella

 

[Delvianna]

We are called to warn against false teachers. (Ephesians 5:11, Titus 1:9-11) Slander is making false statements about someone. So if someone is saying someone said something they didn't, that's wrong in general. But to say, watch out for this person and here is why, isn't unbiblical when we're told to avoid false teachers. How do you avoid someone you don't know is false? Paul didn't say, sit and learn from them so you can accept the good and toss the bad, he said avoid (Romans 16:17-18).

 

[bèlla]

We are called to warn against false teachers. (Ephesians 5:11, Titus 1:9-11) Slander is making false statements about someone. So if someone is saying someone said something they didn't, that's wrong in general. But to say, watch out for this person and here is why, isn't unbiblical when we're told to avoid false teachers. How do you avoid someone you don't know is false? Paul didn't say, sit and learn from them so you can accept the good and toss the bad, he said avoid (Romans 16:17-18).

I would never make an allegation against anyone I hadn’t heard firsthand. Media has its limitations and I’d want to feel the spirit in the room and observe them and others. I’ve attended prominent churches and had an opportunity to hear many speak. Both through conferences and fundraising events like Moody’s Founder’s Week.

I wasn’t listening on the radio or watching on a screen. I was seated in the third row looking them in the eye and watching their body language. And it wasn’t a one time thing. I’ve heard most of them several times and I don’t have a list. We walk in the measure of light we have and we’re all in different places.

A lot of people are petty and enjoy tearing others down. There’s a host of snark sites on the internet attesting to the same. Its become a sport for some and spirits of jealousy and envy are plentiful. I’m not going to say that every allegation is genuine and not rooted in the other.

~bella

 

[Delvianna]

I would never make an allegation against anyone I hadn’t heard firsthand. Media has its limitations and I’d want to feel the spirit in the room and observe them and others. I’ve attended prominent churches and had an opportunity to hear many speak. Both through conferences and fundraising events like Moody’s Founder’s Week.

I wasn’t listening on the radio or watching on a screen. I was seated in the third row looking them in the eye and watching their body language. And it wasn’t a one time thing. I’ve heard most of them several times and I don’t have a list. We walk in the measure of light we have and we’re all in different places.

A lot of people are petty and enjoy tearing others down. There’s a host of snark sites on the internet attesting to the same. Its become a sport for some and spirits of jealousy and envy are plentiful. I’m not going to say that every allegation is genuine and not rooted in the other.

~bella

Sure, I get what you're saying but there has to be a middle ground instead of swinging for extremes. If you go into a Church, watch someone online, sit in a conference and hear someone speak about something that is really bad to the point you'd classify them as a false teacher, then we are called to warn others about it about what they said. I don't agree with the extreme on the other side that compiles lists for petty reasons just to make themselves feel better for dragging others down either or truly if someone wrongfully bears false witness against them or claims they said something they didn't say, but just because those extremes exist, doesn't mean we stop altogether. Since we are to rebuke our own brethren, then rebuke the ones who are abusing this teaching for selfish or wrongful reasons, but I wouldn't tell people to stop doing it either in general.

For me personally, I've listened to the people I listed. While some of what I said about Voddie Bauchman is hearsay based on someone else's testimony, I personally avoid him for what I've witnessed but like I said, I'm not sure I would quite say he's a false preacher, just warning so someone who does listen to him can be on the alert and test to make sure what he's saying is accurate if they aren't so well versed in the scriptures. For the others, I would consider them dangerous enough that anyone could be swayed by their teachings and I would rather not have people fall into their trap. I saw personally what listening to prosperity gospel teachings morphed my best friend into, or even my moms boss for that matter. So for me personally, I'm listing people to avoid so the damage doesn't duplicate.

 

[bèlla]

then we are called to warn others about it about what they said.

I have never warned anyone about a specific person or teaching and it’s unlikely I will. Some lessons must be experienced firsthand. Others require the soil to be primed and that’s the Holy Spirit’s domain. And the last is borne from experience. You can only influence someone to the degree they permit and you’ll never exceed their threshold. If they don’t value your input they’ll never listen. That’s human nature.

Christians are quick to rush in without ever considering if its the right time or messenger. That’s why I ask if it’s a word from the Lord because I know it isn’t and I know when I’m in the presence of someone with a word of knowledge for me and those are the discussions I pursue when advice is shared.

I saw personally what listening to prosperity gospel teachings morphed my best friend into, or even my moms boss for that matter. So for me personally, I'm listing people to avoid so the damage doesn't duplicate.

What ensnares one person may have no effect on someone else. We’re susceptible in some areas and less so in others.

~bella