The Conjunction of Opposites

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Not as Lucifer though -- as Satan.

Picture me as a captain in the Navy -- Captain Joe.

Then "iniquity is found in me" and I get a dishonorable discharge; whereupon I go out and spend the rest of my life looting and pillaging and murdering people.

Is "Captain Joe" doing those things? did the Navy create a murderer?



Yes -- Lucifer and Satan are one and the same.

But under two different names, they get two different sets of credit: one good, one bad.



Lucifer, as a created angel, was a son of God.

Mormon then? They believe Satan i.e. Lucifer was Jesus' bro. <--- Definitely a cult belief

 

[AV1611VET]

Mormon then? They believe Satan i.e. Lucifer was Jesus' bro. <--- Definitely a cult belief

In de pen dent fund da men tall bap test.

 

[JulieB67]

Jesus was clear that Satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning,

Yes, in the beginning of life in the flesh for mankind this is true.

Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman], and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.

But the verses in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Job, etc before that make it clear he was perfect -without blemish until iniquity was found in him.

Where have you been? Not only a liar and murderer from the beginning, but a thief from day 1 of mankind,

And I see you continue to cherry pick certain verses leaving out the rest of the parable. Only a portion had the seed stolen from them. Some of it fell on good ground therefore not stolen.

If your claim is Satan only in future activity that not scripturally accurate whatsoever

No, that is not my claim. Only that at the present time it's much easier for mature Christians to resist his spirit When he's here disguised as that angel of light that's when we need to have the full gospel armor on and in place if one is here during that time period.

I believe Satan is not mankind

I never stated he was.

All have sin. Romans 3:9
Sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

These are still true ^^

You need to know the difference between living in sin/habitual sin and missing the mark/falling short. No one is without sin but there is a difference.

Case in point, you pointed out 1st John 3:8 but fail to see verse 7 for what it is and we can tie both together so we can see the difference.

I John 3:7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous."

I John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."

John is making the distinction but you cannot.

Oh? What is that? Because I see fault in Satan not PEOPLE? You should know better

Believe me, no one will be able to drag Satan along with him when they're standing in Judgment.

There is no excuses available for the devil. Why are you providing them is a more accurate question.

Who's making excuses? Show me where I provided any excuses? He's a dead man walking so to speak bound for the Lake of Fire.

Show me where Jesus preached salvation for DEVILS.

Don't know where you're getting that from my posts. Read my statement above.

Are you claiming you have no sin

Never stated that, not in any of my posts.

Yeah. So when you don't fall short you're sinless? Or do you have a ritual that makes you sinless? Or a belief that made you sinless.

Never stated any of this- you lie. Is the devil at work here? Hmm....Apparently- according to you.

If you think that extends to the tempter think again

Again, more lies. My posts have never stated any of this.

Again, if you think this subject is just about you, you haven't even set foot on the wrestling match yet

That verse is geared towards any sincere Christian or do you think Paul is wasting his time along with everyone else?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Yes, in the beginning of life in the flesh for mankind this is true.

Satan has no flesh body. It's an adverse antiChrist spirit

Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman], and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.

But the verses in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Job, etc before that make it clear he was perfect -without blemish until iniquity was found in him.

Obviously not perfect by the time of the garden event.

And I see you continue to cherry pick certain verses leaving out the rest of the parable. Only a portion had the seed stolen from them. Some of it fell on good ground therefore not stolen.

I've always said as Jesus taught us, that man shall live by every word of God. Not just the ones we like, which is what you're doing. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

No, that is not my claim. Only that at the present time it's much easier for mature Christians to resist his spirit When he's here disguised as that angel of light that's when we need to have the full gospel armor on and in place if one is here during that time period.

Point being the tempter and his own operate within mankind.

You need to know the difference between living in sin/habitual sin and missing the mark/falling short. No one is without sin but there is a difference.

You're merely looking at the external act of sin. IF the tempter operates within, then the worst sinner who has been involved within inserting that temptation, and it really doesn't matter much from that observation. Every sin is technically within, because of that bad actor, not because of your external act of sin, or lack thereof.

You can subscribe to the fantasy that your sin is better than the other people's because it's not overt, but your less than overt sin really has nothing to do with sin and Satan, if you follow the logic.

Satan isn't any less the sinner in anyone.

Case in point, you pointed out 1st John 3:8 but fail to see verse 7 for what it is and we can tie both together so we can see the difference.

I John 3:7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous."

I don't ascribe any sin to the person, just so you know, per Paul, 2 Cor. 5:19

That does NOT mean sin's are not counted. They are counted against devils.

I John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."

John is making the distinction but you cannot.

You only want one side of the equation but not the other is all. Why would you have any problem condemning the tempter in you or anyone else???

In fact why don't you see that condition in others to begin with???

Why don't you admit you're tempted internally by the tempter and then this one sided good word only game might stop.

Believe me, no one will be able to drag Satan along with him when they're standing in Judgment.

You mean like this?:

Zech. 3:1-3
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

No Satan in the picture? Guess again.

Contrary to what you want to believe Jesus showed us all that Satan and devils were in mankind, period.

That hasn't changed. All have sin. Sin is of the devil. Paul himself had a devil in his own flesh, 2 Cor. 12:7 and had temptations in his flesh and mind. Romans 7:7-13, Gal. 4:14

So, yes, it's never just you or I or anyone else involved in these questions. It's us and the adversary and or his own

Who's making excuses? Show me where I provided any excuses? He's a dead man walking so to speak bound for the Lake of Fire.

I may have mistaken you for a Christian universalist, which I am, who actually loves our neighbors as ourselves.

My apologies.

 

[JulieB67]

Satan has no flesh body

I never stated he had a flesh body. But he does have a body. Angels look just like we do. Regardless of whether they're fallen or not.

Obviously not perfect by the time of the garden event.

No, of course not.

've always said as Jesus taught us, that man shall live by every word of God. Not just the ones we like, which is what you're doing.

Yes, every verse matters and we need to know them but not every verse applies to everyone, that's your problem. You lump everyone together and when taking the Bible as a whole, that's clearly not the case.

Point being the tempter and his own operate within mankind.

The problem is you only see him as a spirit. He's very real, body and will be here pretending to be an angel of light. That's the true deception that will take over the entire world.

ou're merely looking at the external act of sin. IF the tempter operates within, then the worst sinner who has been involved within inserting that temptation, and it really doesn't matter much from that observation. Every sin is technically within, because of that bad actor, not because of your external act of sin, or lack thereof.

Not all sin is the same and can be lumped together and not every heart and mind that sins is the same. God knows who's sincerely trying to put his will over their own or who continues to sin without caring. Even in the old testament we see different sins being broken down and the offerings for certain ones, etc.

I don't ascribe any sin to the person, just so you know, per Paul, 2 Cor. 5:19

You need to go up a few verses and see that only those in Christ are reconciled to him.


I Corinthians 5:15 "And that He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him Which died for them, and rose again.

According to your beliefs this verse is impossible.

As well as this verse-

II Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more."

And this one -

II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."


II Corinthians 5:18 "And all things are of God, Who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;"

II Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the world of reconciliation."

The entire world has a chance and that's what that means. He's the savior for the entire world. He's it. But we have to be in Christ for that reconciliation. Or else you have made a mockery of the cross if all you do is going around and sinning and blaming Satan at every turn thinking it doesn't matter.

You mean like this?:

Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire before anyone stands in Judgement. That is a fact.

may have mistaken you for a Christian universalist, which I am, who actually loves our neighbors as ourselves.

No, I believe as Christ taught in the Second Death. He taught that the Lake of Fire was the Second Death and anyone not found in the book of life was thrown in. That's not for just Satan and his angels. They are not in the book of life. So we are talking about everyone else.

Do I believe in eternal torment? No. I believe as Christ taught about the Second death and Paul as well -in eternal destruction. Christ states fear the one that can destroy both body and soul in hell. And then we see in Revelation exactly what he's talking about.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

In de pen dent fund da men tall bap test.

Satan as Lucifer and at some point as God's son is assuredly NOT any fundy baptist position.

But credit for a creative spelling to avoid overt lying

So what is the real cult behind such a claim other than Mormon?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I never stated he had a flesh body. But he does have a body. Angels look just like we do. Regardless of whether they're fallen or not.

The term angel itself does not connote anything other than being a messenger. Can apply to God, man or devils

Yes, every verse matters and we need to know them but not every verse applies to everyone, that's your problem.

Stated Jesus on this many times, that man shall live by every Word of God.

It is your claim that can't hold up to that and only likes the good words, and never the bad.

You lump everyone together and when taking the Bible as a whole, that's clearly not the case.

Scripture is addressed to both mankind and devils.

Since these two parties are clearly overlapped in the flesh, it's pretty easy to see applicability across the board, for everyone.

The problem is you only see him as a spirit.

We are not given any depictions of Satan with his own flesh body including reproductive organs. Though some cults do actually believe that is the case. Maybe you're involved with one???

He's very real, body and all and will be here pretending to be an angel of light. That's the true deception that will take over the entire world.

And that would be quite entirely heretical

Not all sin is the same and can be lumped together and not every heart and mind that sins is the same. God knows who's sincerely trying to put his will over their own or who continues to sin without caring. Even in the old testament we see different sins being broken down and the offerings for certain ones, etc.

All sin is the same in regards to being of the devil, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15, John 8:44 etc etc

You need to go up a few verses and see that only those in Christ are reconciled to him.

Were such people not subject to internal temptations of the tempter you'd have a point but that was never the case

I Corinthians 5:15 "And that He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him Which died for them, and rose again.

According to your beliefs this verse is impossible.

Only if we are falsely led to completely ignore the tempter in the equations

There are actions of believers and there are actions of the tempter. BOTH transpire in believers.

Some believers actually tell the truth about it.

As well as this verse-

II Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more."

And this one -

II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."


II Corinthians 5:18 "And all things are of God, Who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;"

II Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the world of reconciliation."

People can be reconciled to the fact. The fact won't change whether reconciled to it or not. Devils can not be reconciled to the fact, even if claiming they are.

The entire world has a chance

I don't adhere to the gambling gospel narratives, where it's a "chance" to win and whoopee, you got a winning ticket and most didn't.

and that's what that means. He's the savior for the entire world. He's it.

You certainly can lip service that claim but you definitely do not believe it. In your position He's actually not capable of saving anyone by His Own Power and can only be activated by YOUR POWER. I consider that utter nonsense.

But we have to be in Christ for that reconciliation. Or else you have made a mockery of the cross if all you do is going around and sinning and blaming Satan at every turn thinking it doesn't matter.

I don't believe God is eliminated by your chance or anyone else's chance at activating Him or more accurately for most, NOT activating Him. That entire notion is actually repulsive, and certainly NO GOD.

Satan will be thrown into the Lake of Fire before anyone stands in Judgement. That is a fact.

Glad we agree on something.

No, I believe as Christ taught in the Second Death. He taught that the Lake of Fire was the Second Death and anyone not found in the book of life was thrown in. That's not for just Satan and his angels. They are not in the book of life. So we are talking about everyone else.

Do I believe in eternal torment? No. I believe as Christ taught about the Second death and Paul as well -in eternal destruction. Christ states fear the one that can destroy both body and soul in hell. And then we see in Revelation exactly what he's talking about.

Were there a single named person in the entire Bible said to be eternally tortured or eternally annhilated you'd have a point. There's not even a named person even threatened with such a fate.

Fact is, we shall ALL be changed. 1 Cor. 15:51-52. As we have born the image of the earthy, we shall be "made" into quickening spirit. And this by no work of ourselves. It is a One Way Street with ONE WALKER who has predetermined the entirety of the matters, The Body of the Son. Exactly none of this was left to "CHANCE."

No mere mortal has the power to make one hair black or white, let alone "make themselves" holy or eternal.

 

[AV1611VET]

Satan as Lucifer and at some point as God's son is assuredly NOT any fundy baptist position.

But credit for a creative spelling to avoid overt lying

So what is the real cult behind such a claim other than Mormon?

You're not even trying to understand, are you?

I'm done with this.

I pray God will enlighten you.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

You're not even trying to understand, are you?

I'm done with this.

I pray God will enlighten you.

I won't be accepting holy Satan anytime soon because it's non existing in scripture for either Satan or Lucifer

 

[JulieB67]

We are not given any depictions of Satan with his own flesh body

I didn't say he had a flesh body. I said he had a body.

In your position He's actually not capable of saving anyone by His Own Power and can only be activated by YOUR POWER. I consider that utter nonsense

Is this verse utter nonsense?

John 3:18 "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."


He does the saving, he is the way to atonement. But it doesn't mean we don't have to accept him and sin the rest of our lives without a care in the world and expect to be saved. That's nonsense. And not biblical.

Devils can not be reconciled to the fact

Who's said anything about devils being reconciled? That's why it's hard to converse with you at times. You continue to make claims that no one has stated, etc. Satan and his are bound for the Lake of Fire period. That's a fact.

I don't believe God is eliminated by your chance or anyone else's chance at activating Him or more accurately for most, NOT activating Him. That entire notion is actually repulsive, and certainly NO GOD.

God is not eliminated in any aspect. But we have to believe in truth.

You keep stating the very opposite. That no one is condemned. As I stated only those in Christ are reconciled. But again, you don't believe that even when the verses are being posted right in front of you.

That's why God is so long suffering because he doesn't want anyone to perish. But there is a condition -repentance. That change of heart and mind -a new way of thinking. That comes with true acceptance and belief in Christ. If it's true repentance. And before you start another round of "no one is sinless, etc" I am not stating that but repentance comes with a new way of thinking. If that's not the case, repentance has not set in yet. It's that simple. Is it hard to overcome certain things? Yes of course but the "want" has to be there. And of course it's God that tries the heart and mind. He knows.

Why do you continually ignore all the verses about repentance?​

And that would be quite entirely heretical

It was prophesized long ago that he would sit on the throne in the sides of the north and proclaim to be God. That has not happened yet. If one is here during that time and not prepared to have the gospel armor on to fight the the wiles (trickery) of the devil so they can stand in "the evil day" than they would be like the 'foolish virgins' on watch. He and his angels will be here putting on a show and most of the world will fall for it.
As Paul states, our gathering back together will not proceed until that happens first. And that's why he teaches about having the gospel armor on during that time. He and Christ both give strict warnings about not being deceived by any means. He that endures to the end shall be saved. And you don't don a disguise unless eyes are on you. Who's our real Angel of Light? Of course Christ is. But he will be here "instead of Christ" He comes first. The Thessalonians were confused on the timing and Paul set them straight.

or eternally annhilated you'd have a point. There's not even a named person even threatened with such a fate.

Than you're not living by every word as you proclaim. Christ himself stated to fear the one that can destroy both body and soul in hell. He tells us in his Revelation to the churches that only those that had repented and overcame when they had fallen would "not" have their names blotted out of the book of life. What is the opposite of life? Death. Just as Paul was a witness to -everlasting destruction. And no one has to be named. Judgement Day has not arrived. But he makes it clear who's bound for the Lake of Fire. Anyone not written in the book of life. Satan and his angels are not in the book of life. No matter how much you skip that fact. Judgement Day is for everyone and all they've done, good or bad. And anyone not found in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. That is the second death.

Christ also states blessed are those that are in the first resurrection because the second death has no power over them. Meaning those who don't take part still have that threat over them. But you are claiming Christ is speaking untruths and that no one has that threat over them. And you talk about taking power and truth away?

I'll stick to Christ's teachings and warnings.

You claim to live by every word of God but you ignore (like Christ's teachings to the churches about repentance) so much to keep to your doctrine. We have to take the bible as a whole.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

“The opposites always balance one another—good and evil, beauty and ugliness, love and hate, spirit and matter. Heaven and hell are born together. The dissolution of opposites is the precondition of the highest consciousness.”

That's an interesting philosophical musing, but I don't put much stock in Carl Jung's view on theoretical psychology.