6,000 Years?

[Platte]

YEC, trying to extend the Garden conditions to the post-fall world generally.

Rain is not flooding. And of course, floods had always happened, and continue to happen.

There were no rainbows before the flood. Other than no rain can you explain how there were no rainbows?

 

[The Barbarian]

There were no rainbows before the flood.

The Bible doesn't say that. That's an addition men put into scripture to make it more acceptable to them.
It's a natural phenomenon. YECs claim that God is unable to use a natural phenomenon as a sign. But they are wrong.

 

[Job 33:6]

I have no idea what a solid dome is? I've never read that in the Bible.

Here are 2 things that you do NOT know.

1. Did people live to be 1000 years old before the Flood?
2. There was no rain before the flood?

If either (or both) of these are true...then you really have no idea about possible differences about the atmosphere before the flood

Job 37:18
New International Version
can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?

English Standard Version
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Amos‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭NASB

And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 NRSV

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11 ESV

the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2 ESV

And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20 NRSV

and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10 ESV

Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

And this isn't about a pre-flood vapor canopy. As many of the passages about the dome-firmament and the waters above, are throughout scripture, well after the flood.

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place forever and ever, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:6-8

Yet he commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:23

you set the beams of your chambers on the waters, you make the clouds your chariot, you ride on the wings of the wind,
Psalms 104:3

Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1

And this isn't about a pre-flood vapor canopy. As many of the passages about the dome-firmament and the waters above, are throughout scripture, well after the flood.

 

[Platte]

The Bible doesn't say that. That's an addition men put into scripture to make it more acceptable to them.
It's a natural phenomenon. YECs claim that God is unable to use a natural phenomenon as a sign. But they are wrong.

Here is what the Bible says.

“I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭9‬:‭13‬-‭16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Genesis 9:13-16 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the clou | King James Version (KJV) | Down

I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the clou

bible.com

 

[The Barbarian]

There were no rainbows before the flood.

That's not what the Bible says:
Genesis‬ ‭9‬:‭13‬-‭16 ‭I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

As you see, it doesn't say that there were no rainbows before the flood. Let's see how that would work physically if that were true...

No, I don't think so.

 

[Jipsah]

thats your argument for not taking the 6 days of Creation literally?

No. All scientific data shows the earth to be a lot older than that. Yeah, I know, you don't like science. But you don't like Scripture much either, when it says that a "day" in God's God's reckoning is incomparably longer than an earthly solar day. "1000 years is as a watch in the night", and "1000 years is as a day, and a day is as 1000 years". You just waive that Scripture of because it doesn't suit your doctrine. You also don't accept the Genesis account as to when The Sun, or any "sun", for that matter, is created. You just make up your own fictional "pre sun" to make your rubbish doctrine "work".

Yes and Adam would have taken longer than a day to be a fully grown adult.

One of your "days" or one of God's days? They'ew obviously not the same thing.

I'm sorry - and how does "gravity" affect Scripture.

Gravity is just a theory, innit? THerefore it doesn't count. Right? <Laugh>

When let go of an object in my hand - it will drop....that is a fact.

Nah, that's gravity, and gravity is merely a theory. That's your understanding of "science" isn't it?

The theory is we don't know for a fact why that happens.

Therefore gravity may be safely ignored, right?

Are you referring to the "light" that I made up that God saw in Genesis 1:4?

Nope, I'm talkuing about the fictional "sun" you made up to provide "evenings and mornings" before the real aun was created.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

That's good. Now, what constitutes an "evening" or a "morning"? The existence of light somewhere, or the earths position in relation to the sun? (BTW, I expect yet another bit of creative cosmology at this point, <Laugh>)

The most egregious bit of chicanery here is the outright denial of the understanding of "God's time" vs. human/solar time". You give the metaphorical rigid digit to both St Peter and Moses, cavalierly casting aside as worthless their explantion of God's reckoning of time. Your respect for these mighty men of God only only extends to such times as what they said suits your purpose in supporting your specious doctrine.

 

[Jipsah]

thats your argument for not taking the 6 days of Creation literally?

No, it's [pointing out your hypocrisy in demanding that Genesis must be taken literally despite both scientific and scriptural evidence that is is not, yet dismissing our Lord's own Words in the instution of the Holy Communion as merely metaphorical. It's rather like discarding the cornflakes and eating the box.

Yes and Adam would have taken longer than a day to be a fully grown adult.

A solar day, yes, obviously. But oncde again, how long do Moses and St. Peter tell is one of God's "Days" Lokks like, once again you're hoist on your own petard

I'm sorry - and how does "gravity" affect Scripture.

It doesn't. It's Just A Scripture, right? And therefore of no significance. <Laugh>

When let go of an object in my hand - it will drop....that is a fact. The theory is we don't know for a fact why that happens.

So there's theories you like, and theories yiu don't like. How very scientific! <ROFL>

Are you referring to the "light" that I made up that God saw in Genesis 1:4?

No, I'm refering to the "light source" you invented about 20 posts back. The one you ned to make evenings and mornings when there's no sun.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Tweren't no sun yet, though, was there? Just some more rubbish you have to invent to plug hols in your hand wrought doctrine.

 

[davetaff]

Hi
Why does everyone keep rabbiting on about before the flood what God created before the flood except for Noah and everything on the ark was destroyed in the flood when he stepped of the ark it was a clean slate the only thing missing was man in the image of God Noah and his sons where not in Gods image,
The multitude Christ presented to the Father at the end of the 6 days of creation each day 1000 years began with Noah not very complicated maybe it's hard to understand because its so simple.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Platte]

No, it's [pointing out your hypocrisy in demanding that Genesis must be taken literally despite both scientific and scriptural evidence that is is not, yet dismissing our Lord's own Words in the instution of the Holy Communion as merely metaphorical. It's rather like discarding the cornflakes and eating the box.

A solar day, yes, obviously. But oncde again, how long do Moses and St. Peter tell is one of God's "Days" Lokks like, once again you're hoist on your own petard

It doesn't. It's Just A Scripture, right? And therefore of no significance. <Laugh>

So there's theories you like, and theories yiu don't like. How very scientific! <ROFL>

No, I'm refering to the "light source" you invented about 20 posts back. The one you ned to make evenings and mornings when there's no sun.

Tweren't no sun yet, though, was there? Just some more rubbish you have to invent to plug hols in your hand wrought doctrine.

We do agree that there was light before the sun and there was also an evening and a morning.

A light source and a rotating earth is what you need to produce an evening and a morning

 

[The Barbarian]

We do agree that there was light before the sun and there was also an evening and a morning.

A light source and a rotating earth is what you need to produce an evening and a morning

If that was true, moonrise would be morning. If one has to redefine words to make an argument work, that's pretty good evidence that the argument is false.

 

[Platte]

If that was true, moonrise would be morning. If one has to redefine words to make an argument work, that's pretty good evidence that the argument is false.

I’m not sure of your education level, so don’t be offended by what I’m gonna say next. But you do realize that while we do get light from the moon, the actual light source of the moon is the sun.

 

[Jipsah]

We do agree that there was light before the sun and there was also an evening and a morning.

No, we do not, Yes, light before the sun. No, no evenings and mornings before the sun. You don't know what evening and morning mean, right?

A light source and a rotating earth is what you need to produce an evening and a morning

Oh, a light source. Sure, which one would that be? No sun yet... hmmm... Oh, it must be the one that you invented a few posts back, the one never mentioned in the Scripture you're so very Sola about.

Unlike our Lord's "Take, eat, this is My Body", which it simply a metaphor, No Big Deal, just a little memorial snacky once in awhile. But the "days" of Genesis, well that's different! That's means 6 by-cracky 24 hour human solar days down to the second! Never mind that Scripture says God's "days" are vastly different than ours, and there wasn't any sun to delimit solar "days", or any humans to make note of it, it's Absolutely Critical to believe that the Days of Creation were *precisely* like our modern human solar days, or God will probably condemn us to hell. Right?

Upside down and backward; that Good Old Time American Religion! -sigh-

 

[Jipsah]

I’m not sure of your education level

That may not be a game you really want to play.

so don’t be offended by what I’m gonna say next. But you do realize that while we do get light from the moon, the actual light source of the moon is the sun.

Then replace the moon with a lightning bug, or a jar of lightning bugs. I mean, as long as we're entertaining different undefined "light sources" that you feel free to create ad hoc, why not?

 

[The Barbarian]

I’m not sure of your education level, so don’t be offended by what I’m gonna say next. But you do realize that while we do get light from the moon, the actual light source of the moon is the sun.

The Bible says that the moon is a source of light. So now, you want to deny scripture and play science? Technically, in engineering, the moon is also a light source.
AI Overview
Here are 20 sources of light, a mix of natural and artificial examples: Sun, stars, firefly (bioluminescence), lightning, fire, candle, lamp, light bulb (incandescent), LED (light-emitting diode), fluorescent light, laser, torch, glow stick (chemiluminescence), match, flashlight, neon sign, TV screen, phone screen, and the moon (reflection)

Google Search

There's really no way to make your beliefs fit scripture.

 

[The Barbarian]

That may not be a game you really want to play.

 

[Platte]

No, we do not, Yes, light before the sun. No, no evenings and mornings before the sun. You don't know what evening and morning mean, right?

Oh, a light source. Sure, which one would that be? No sun yet... hmmm... Oh, it must be the one that you invented a few posts back, the one never mentioned in the Scripture you're so very Sola about.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Actually the one God invented in verse 3

 

[The Barbarian]

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is why we know the creation story is figurative. By definition, there can be no mornings or evenings without a sun to have them. Scripture itself denies YEC.

 

[Platte]

The Bible says that the moon is a source of light. So now, you want to deny scripture and play science? Technically, in engineering, the moon is also a light source.
AI Overview
Here are 20 sources of light, a mix of natural and artificial examples: Sun, stars, firefly (bioluminescence), lightning, fire, candle, lamp, light bulb (incandescent), LED (light-emitting diode), fluorescent light, laser, torch, glow stick (chemiluminescence), match, flashlight, neon sign, TV screen, phone screen, and the moon (reflection)

Google Search

There's really no way to make your beliefs fit scripture.

AI Overview


The Moon is not a light source; it reflects light from the Sun. "Moonlight" is actually reflected sunlight that bounces off the Moon's surface, which is why we can see it.

Why the Moon isn't a light source:

• Stars produce their own light:
  Objects that produce their own visible light, like the Sun and other stars, are called light sources. They create light through processes like nuclear fusion.
  
  
• Planets and moons reflect light:
  Planets and moons, including our Moon, do not generate their own light. They appear bright because they reflect light from a nearby source, such as the Sun.

How we see the Moon:

1. 1. Sunlight hits the Moon:
   The Sun's light illuminates one half of the Moon at a time, creating a day side and a night side, similar to Earth.
   
   
2. 2. Light bounces off the surface:
   As this sunlight hits the Moon's surface, it bounces off in various directions.
   
   
3. 3. Some light reaches Earth:
   A small portion of this reflected light travels to Earth, allowing us to see the Moon. This reflected light creates the different phases of the Moon we observe.

 

[Jipsah]

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Actually the one God invented in verse 3

Broken record award, mate. What was the light source pre-sun? Yeah, light already existed, but evenings and mornings aren’t caused by the existence of light, are they? It’s intellectually pathetic stuff like this that’s pushing literate people away from dumb head evangelicalism.

 

[Platte]

but evenings and mornings aren’t caused by the existence of light, are they?

Actually yes - the existence of light (single light source) and a rotating Earth.