Will MAGA condemn Texan gerrymandering and sign a petition for all States and Feds to have independent Commissions handling redistributions?

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

The boundaries of districts are a state responsibility. The only requirement is that more or less the same number of people is in each district. So there is no Federal government control of district boundaries. But do you think that would automagically fix anything?

Do I think we can fix any thing? No I do not.

We can’t even agree on what’s wrong with our politics, so how can we solve problems? The OP asked if conservatives should condemn the undemocratic map in Texas, but your response was California and Illinois do it too.

If we can't even admit what is wrong without blaming others, solutions will remain out of reach.

 

[DaisyDay]

What insult?

And no - he gave no reasons.

He did.

He claimed that Australia was superior because they are a "full democracy" - which he has no basis for claiming.

He gave you the basis.

The US is a Constitutional Republic.

And a representational democracy, John Birch Society's argument not withstanding.

And no one has convinced anyone that redistricting is somehow wrong in any way.

No one has even tried. Are you deliberately fudging the difference between simple redistricting, which is mandated under some circumstances, and gerrymandering? Because that's how it appears.

 

[eclipsenow]

He did.

He gave you the basis.

And a representational democracy, John Birch Society's argument not withstanding.

No one has even tried. Are you deliberately fudging the difference between simple redistricting, which is mandated under some circumstances, and gerrymandering? Because that's how it appears.

Thanks for the backup.

As per usual - when MAGA logical inconsistencies are confronted with their own hypocrisy, and real world data, they just ... disappear!

What's a good emoji for "Whoosh - outtahere!"

 

[chevyontheriver]

Do I think we can fix any thing? No I do not.

Well then ....

We can’t even agree on what’s wrong with our politics, so how can we solve problems? The OP asked if conservatives should condemn the undemocratic map in Texas, but your response was California and Illinois do it too.

We can't agree, that's for sure. And a central part of that inability is those who see gerrymandering as only a Republican problem.

If we can't even admit what is wrong without blaming others, solutions will remain out of reach.

What is wrong is that Democrats and Republicans gerrymander when in power. But you see it as only a problem with Republicans. That's a problem of ideological blinders. And I can't fix that.

 

[eclipsenow]

Well then ....

We can't agree, that's for sure. And a central part of that inability is those who see gerrymandering as only a Republican problem.

I understand why Newsom had to respond to Texas - because Trump and his NPD are a threat to American democracy. This is just another MAGA attack on democratic norms. WE pick the people select the politicians - they don't SELECT US!

In this case this year, playground rules apply: "They started it!" See - when MAGA started it - MAGA don't get to whine when someone else then does it in reply. It was not on California's radar this year. MAGA put it there!

IF MAGA don't like gerrymandering (except they started it this time) - how about they criticise the party that actually started it this time?

I am against gerrymandering - and wish Texas hadn't started it!

If I were American, I would sign a petition against gerrymandering, and for independent, mathematically determined Commissions.

Would you?

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am against gerrymandering - and wish Texas hadn't started it!

Gerrymandering is almost as old as the hills. To say Texas started it is naive in the extreme.

If I were American, I would sign a petition against gerrymandering, and for independent, mathematically determined Commissions.

Would you?

I'm against gerrymandering, but when either party is in power they slide into using it. I'm much more keen on getting rid of both big parties in favor of parties more attuned to the center. They want their power and their ideologies even against the interests of those they are supposed to represent. They can't push their ideologies without power, so they need to maintain power by whatever means available. Murder works to silence opposing voices too.

 

[eclipsenow]

Gerrymandering is almost as old as the hills. T

So is Monarchy. Is that what you want to head towards?
America gets a "FLAWED" democracy rating - and there are only 2 more categories to Full Autocracy.

to say Texas started it is naive in the extreme.

Context. Read the words around my other words. Texas started it this year. ( know the origins of gerrymandering are within just a few decades of your country forming - when governor Gerry redistricted his electorate into the "monstrous salamander."

I'm against gerrymandering, but when either party is in power they slide into using it.

There is no mention of California intending to use it until Texas threatened to.

I'm much more keen on getting rid of both big parties in favor of parties more attuned to the center.

Then you're for compulsory voting. Otherwise - how would achieve this?
Australia has compulsory voting which means politicians must appeal to the bored middle - not the frenzied edges.
When the system is voluntary - political dialogue must become a frenzied sideshow just to get those energised enough about the whole thing to vote!

They want their power and their ideologies even against the interests of those they are supposed to represent. They can't push their ideologies without power, so they need to maintain power by whatever means available. Murder works to silence opposing voices too.

And then lobbyists come in and corrupt the whole thing anyway. Big money gets involved.

Which is why I have a thread on Sortition - another method of democratic representation that bypasses all this for a lottery system much like a jury.

 

[chevyontheriver]

So is Monarchy. Is that what you want to head towards?

Huh? Where did THAT come from?

America gets a "FLAWED" democracy rating - and there are only 2 more categories to Full Autocracy.

You found a new favorite rating system? One that confirms to you the American descent into Fascism? Well, cool for you.

Context. Read the words around my other words. Texas started it this year.R

Redistricting goes on based on the census that happens every ten years. Gerrymandering happens when the party in charge decides to game the system like the Democrats have been doing in Illinois for a long long time. They do it in a lot of states. So do Republicans where they can. This year, last year, next year hardly matters. It just happens whenever the partisans can do it.

( know the origins of gerrymandering are within just a few decades of your country forming - when governor Gerry redistricted his electorate into the "monstrous salamander."
View attachment 370032

I'm so glad you now know that gerrymandering has a long history.

There is no mention of California intending to use it until Texas threatened to.

Are you implying that no districts in California have ever been gerrymandered before?

Then you're for compulsory voting. Otherwise - how would achieve this?

Where did I say I was for compulsory voting?

Australia has compulsory voting which means politicians must appeal to the bored middle - not the frenzied edges.
When the system is voluntary - political dialogue must become a frenzied sideshow just to get those energised enough about the whole thing to vote!

I'm not for that at all. Electoral decisions controlled by the apathetic? Sounds like a recipe for disaster too.

And then lobbyists come in and corrupt the whole thing anyway. Big money gets involved.

I'm much more in favor of Jefferson's idea that there needs to be a revolution now and again to clear out the reigning special interests.

Which is why I have a thread on Sortition - another method of democratic representation that bypasses all this for a lottery system much like a jury.

I have seen this sort of work in jury selection for criminal trials. It might have some use in city councils or legislatures. Or it might lead to even less competence in government.

 

[eclipsenow]

Huh? Where did THAT come from?

Just my hyperbolic style. If it's getting too annoying - I'll try to reign it it. I was just making the point that you seemed relaxed about gerrymandering always being a thing. I'm not relaxed about America's democratic decline at all! Gerrymandering is just one of the many things that had to go wrong for various agencies that monitor the global democracy index to rate America "Flawed".

You found a new favorite rating system? One that confirms to you the American descent into Fascism? Well, cool for you.

The Economist Intelligence Unit is not new, exactly - but is young. It's about 20 years old.

https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/democracy-index-2024/

V-Dem - a large global democracy watch group - also gives America a similar score.

https://v-dem.net/documents/61/v-dem-dr__2025_lowres_v2.pdf

Redistricting goes on based on the census that happens every ten years. Gerrymandering happens when the party in charge decides to game the system like the Democrats have been doing in Illinois for a long long time. They do it in a lot of states. So do Republicans where they can. This year, last year, next year hardly matters. It just happens whenever the partisans can do it.

This year matters because I'm asking about this year. Texas started it, so California replies - and MAGA screams "That's not fair! Don't do what we're doing!" I mean - huh?

Are you implying that no districts in California have ever been gerrymandered before?

Of course not - but at least California took a step away from Gerrymandering in 2008 by creating a fully Independent (not just advisory!) electoral Commission! I have run out of blogging time today - but I started to research how many states already had Independent Commissions and apparently it's only 7 to 10. I asked AI which party had been in power to create Commissions and it said 4 Democratic controlled States vs 3 Republicans. So it's hardly definitive out of a sample of only 7 before I can cheer on the Democrats as having the edge! Again - I've run out of time.

Where did I say I was for compulsory voting?

You didn't - I was being cheeky.

I'm not for that at all. Electoral decisions controlled by the apathetic? Sounds like a recipe for disaster too.

Sometimes - but the political dialogue in Australia is calmer than in the USA. (But "The Social Dilemma" is happening here as well. See the doco on Netflix.)

I'm much more in favor of Jefferson's idea that there needs to be a revolution now and again to clear out the reigning special interests.

Well - then depending on what that means - maybe we agree. What would that revolution look like in your mind? What would prevent them creeping back in straight after? Gerrymandering started within a few decades of the USA being founded!

I have seen this sort of work in jury selection for criminal trials. It might have some use in city councils or legislatures. Or it might lead to even less competence in government.

That discussion is being had right now over here. Indeed - I can't win. The very person who lamented the loss of 'professional politicians' - and opening the parliament to the uneducated rubes - then accused me of trying to set up a technocracy when I replied that maybe we could set an educational requirement on the Sortition pool?