Trump says suspect in custody in killing of Charlie Kirk

[Chesterton]

Did I say Charlie Kirk deserved to be killed? No I did not! In the other thread I started when he was shot, I said "I don’t agree with Charlie Kirk on much, if anything, but I do want to see him recover." What happened to Kirk is inexcusable and has no place in this country.

Okay. So you distinguished between the transgender "community" and the Left. Are they separate? Is there a large community of conservative Christian trans folk that I'm unaware of?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Your post would have carried some weight if you used examples from both sides of the political fence. Unfortunately you couldn't bring yourself to do that. So rather being a proffered solution to what is so wrong with the US, it's an example of the problem itself.

How ironic...

Care to provide an example? Because I highly suspect January 6th had nothing to do with the shooter's motives for killing Kirk.

 

[BPPLEE]

If true, then it was Charlie Kirk's own words and attitude towards the transgender community, and not rhetoric from the left, that angered Tyler Robinson and led to his decision to assassinate him.

First you throw shade on the idea that the shooter's room mate was trans now you're using it to blame Kirk for his own murder.
Heads I win, tails you lose

 

[Freth]

Something I think that is flying over some heads...

If Charlie was full of hate, why would he spend time out of his day to go and debate with people he hated? He didn't yell at them. He calmly reasoned with them. Why risk his life to bring a message to people if he hates them? Aren't there more productive ways to hate people?

He started a grass roots organization to help young people. Is Turning Point hateful too? If so, where is the hate?

Now let's contrast the supposed hate Charlie had for others with the hate that caused a young man to decide the answer was to shoot Charlie.

See the difference? If not, God help you.

 

[Bradskii]

Care to provide an example? Because I highly suspect January 6th had nothing to do with the shooter's motives for killing Kirk.

There are a boat load of examples that anyone could give about any variation of political position you'd like to consider where something was done or said that was wrong. But you chose not to. Your post was a plaintive cri de coeur from the right. 'Look what they do to us!' Oh, woe is you...

Again, it was perfect example of the one sided political partisanship that is the actual problem that you have that was the cause of this particular death. When you insist on an 'us v them' situation and the rhetoric is cranked up to 11 on both sides then you will get people at each extreme deciding that 'something needs to be done'.

You've seen the message from the forum when you logged on earlier. Someone had the good sense to warn everyone about it. That it actually needed to be said, to be spelled out, and in a Christian forum, should give you pause for thought.

 

[Bradskii]

Okay. So you distinguished between the transgender "community" and the Left. Are they separate? Is there a large community of conservative Christian trans folk that I'm unaware of?

I don't get that. What has your political views and your religious beliefs have to do with considering your gender?

 

[Bradskii]

Something I think that is flying over some heads...

If Charlie was full of hate, why would he spend time out of his day to go and debate with people he hated?

To advertise his views, of course. To show people who supported his views how he could stick it to the opposition. Did I really need to point that out?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

There are a boat load of examples that anyone could give about any variation of political position you'd like to consider where something was done or said that was wrong. But you chose not to. Your post was a plaintive cri de coeur from the right. 'Look what they do to us!' Oh, woe is you...

Again, it was perfect example of the one sided political partisanship that is the actual problem that you have that was the cause of this particular death. When you insist on an 'us v them' situation and the rhetoric is cranked up to 11 on both sides then you will get people at each extreme deciding that 'something needs to be done'.

You've seen the message from the forum when you logged on earlier. Someone had the good sense to warn everyone about it. That it actually needed to be said, to be spelled out, and in a Christian forum, should give you pause for thought.

So basically the only example is that conservatives say things that liberals think are mean. Are you suggesting that Trump's mean tweets killed Charlie Kirk? And yes, this is a culture war, and Kirk's death has done more for his cause than anything else he has done. This an us vs them situation.

 

[JosephZ]

First you throw shade on the idea that the shooter's room mate was trans now you're using it to blame Kirk for his own murder.
Heads I win, tails you lose

That's not what I'm doing at all. I still don't know whether or not the shooter's roommate is transgender, and neither does anyone else. You will notice that I said in the first post: "I'm not so sure that's true." and "I’m not saying what they’re saying in those articles can’t be true, but I don’t trust them on their own. Until there's confirmation, I would take claims like this with a huge grain of salt." And then I said in the next post, "if true."

Now if it does turn out to be true that the shooter was in a relationship with a transgender person, then it would be natural to conclude that it was something Charlie Kirk said that made him angry enough to kill him.

 

[Chesterton]

Something I think that is flying over some heads...

If Charlie was full of hate, why would he spend time out of his day to go and debate with people he hated? He didn't yell at them. He calmly reasoned with them. Why risk his life to bring a message to people if he hates them? Aren't there more productive ways to hate people?

He started a grass roots organization to help young people. Is Turning Point hateful too? If so, where is the hate?

Now let's contrast the supposed hate Charlie had for others with the hate that caused a young man to decide the answer was to shoot Charlie.

See the difference? If not, God help you.

Yes, he was always fair. Anyone could step up to the mic and talk with him, and no matter how weird, stupid or hateful their ideas were, he was always polite and civil with them.

 

[Chesterton]

I don't get that. What has your political views and your religious beliefs have to do with considering your gender?

That's what I'm waiting for Joseph to answer. But I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Freth]

What I think is sad and ironic at the same time is that Charlie was talking with someone about transgenderism, and he never got to finish what he was saying, because a bullet ripped through his neck and killed him. This speaks to the heart of the issue, that some want to silence others, because they don't like what they're saying. Charlie could've lived to be a hundred years old, and I'm pretty confident he would've never shot someone over differing views.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

To advertise his views, of course. To show people who supported his views how he could stick it to the opposition. Did I really need to point that out?

He was demonstrating what used to be common place at college universities when they actually cared about open discussion and a free exchange of thought. If you feel that he was only trying to "stick it to the opposition," it was because his opponents positions were so flawed.

 

[Bradskii]

So basically the only example is that conservatives say things that liberals think are mean.

You wrote your post. No-one else. You chose the examples. You can edit it to give a more balanced view. Or not. I'd guess not.

 

[JosephZ]

That's what I'm waiting for Joseph to answer. But I won't be holding my breath.

I really don't know how to answer it, but there are going to be some transgender people who identify as both conservative and Christian.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Okay. So you distinguished between the transgender "community" and the Left. Are they separate? Is there a large community of conservative Christian trans folk that I'm unaware of?

The one Christian trans person I know was disowned by her parents when she transitioned.

Something I think that is flying over some heads...

If Charlie was full of hate, why would he spend time out of his day to go and debate with people he hated? He didn't yell at them. He calmly reasoned with them. Why risk his life to bring a message to people if he hates them? Aren't there more productive ways to hate people?

You’re having trouble grasping it because you’re assuming everything he did was sincere and not part of a performance. His public persona, his “debates” and dunking on people, his propagandizing were all part of a schtick. His whole public persona was built around a facade of “speech” and exchange of ideas.

I’d add that there’s a phenomenon prevalent on the right (maybe on both sides, who knows) of saying terrible stuff about people on the left with a straight face and without really thinking about the magnitude of what those words mean. The result is a disconnect between the message conveyed by a person’s words and what’s conveyed by their (relatively more pleasant) demeanor.

 

[Chesterton]

I really don't know how to answer it, but there are going to be some transgender people who identify as both conservative and Christian.

Never heard of that. Guess I'll have to be generous and take your word for it?

 

[Bradskii]

That's what I'm waiting for Joseph to answer. But I won't be holding my breath.

He just used the terms 'transgender community' and 'the left' in a way that implied that they are not one amorphous entity. I wouldn't have thought that it needed to be specifically stated.

 

[Freth]

The one Christian trans person I know was disowned by her parents when she transitioned.


You’re having trouble grasping it because you’re assuming everything he did was sincere and not part of a performance. His public persona, his “debates” and dunking on people, his propagandizing were all part of a schtick. His whole public persona was built around a facade of “speech” and exchange of ideas.

So you're saying his whole life was a fraud? He even fooled his wife who loved him dearly, and his countless friends who spoke of his kindness and faith after his death. It was all a facade to fool us all.

 

[Chesterton]

The one Christian trans person I know was disowned by her parents when she transitioned.

One person is not exactly a large community.

You’re having trouble grasping it because you’re assuming everything he did was sincere and not part of a performance. His public persona, his “debates” and dunking on people, his propagandizing were all part of a schtick. His whole public persona was built around a facade of “speech” and exchange of ideas.

That's as old as human history. In the Greco-Roman world, rhetoric was the most esteemed of disciplines. It was taught in every school. These days it has a bad connotation, but there's nothing wrong with it. People from the Left do it all the time.