Will MAGA condemn Texan gerrymandering and sign a petition for all States and Feds to have independent Commissions handling redistributions?

[eclipsenow]

MAGA complain about redistribution of electoral divisions in California - but don't realise how hypocritical it is unless they ALSO condemn the exactly same practice that started it in Texas.
MAGA complain about it in California - but don't propose anyone can DO anything about it.

Would you sign a petition for establishing universal American Electoral Committees - with universally bipartisan, objective, mathematically and constitutionally confined AEC's at the Federal and State level?

We have this down in Australia. The Australian Electoral Commission handles things at the Federal level - and we have various State bodies that do it as well.

It's why we are rated a FULL democracy - and the USA is rated FLAWED.

We're only 124 years old - and yet Australia has no gerrymandering. Our last cases were not really gerrymandering but 'weighted' electorates with some wonky stats due to city and rural issues in larger geographic states like Queensland and WA - but they were sorted decades ago.

 

[chevyontheriver]

MAGA complain about redistribution of electoral divisions in California - but don't realise how hypocritical it is unless they ALSO condemn the exactly same practice that started it in Texas.
MAGA complain about it in California - but don't propose anyone can DO anything about it.

Would you sign a petition for establishing universal American Electoral Committees - with universally bipartisan, objective, mathematically and constitutionally confined AEC's at the Federal and State level?

We have this down in Australia. The Australian Electoral Commission handles things at the Federal level - and we have various State bodies that do it as well.

It's why we are rated a FULL democracy - and the USA is rated FLAWED.

We're only 124 years old - and yet Australia has no gerrymandering. Our last cases were not really gerrymandering but 'weighted' electorates with some wonky stats due to city and rural issues in larger geographic states like Queensland and WA - but they were sorted decades ago.

Would WOKE condemn Illinois gerrymandering and California gerrymandering and the gerrymandering that goes on in woke controlled states? Should I hold my breath? I don't think so.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Neither side will condemn this undemocratic process; instead, each will blame the other for cheating while engaging in similar behavior themselves. As a result, our political environment has become a place where integrity and doing the right thing are no longer valued virtues.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Neither side will condemn this undemocratic process; instead, each will blame the other for cheating while engaging in similar behavior themselves. As a result, our political environment has become a place where integrity and doing the right thing are no longer valued virtues.

The boundaries of districts are a state responsibility. The only requirement is that more or less the same number of people is in each district. So there is no Federal government control of district boundaries. But do you think that would automagically fix anything?

 

[probinson]

MAGA probably won't, but people not beholden to any party will.

 

[Zaha Torte]

MAGA complain about redistribution of electoral divisions in California - but don't realise how hypocritical it is unless they ALSO condemn the exactly same practice that started it in Texas.
MAGA complain about it in California - but don't propose anyone can DO anything about it.

Would you sign a petition for establishing universal American Electoral Committees - with universally bipartisan, objective, mathematically and constitutionally confined AEC's at the Federal and State level?

We have this down in Australia. The Australian Electoral Commission handles things at the Federal level - and we have various State bodies that do it as well.

It's why we are rated a FULL democracy - and the USA is rated FLAWED.

We're only 124 years old - and yet Australia has no gerrymandering. Our last cases were not really gerrymandering but 'weighted' electorates with some wonky stats due to city and rural issues in larger geographic states like Queensland and WA - but they were sorted decades ago.

I don't know why we should consider Australia to be a good example for anything let alone this.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Would WOKE condemn

I'd sign the petition.

 

[chevyontheriver]

MAGA probably won't, but people not beholden to any party will.

MAGA won't. WOKE won't. The 'D' and the 'R' need to be replaced for it to get fixed. Both the 'D' and the 'R' need to be replaced. Are you on board with that? Most people aren't. Which is why we are going to continue to have gerrymandering in places like Illinois and California and even Texas.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I'd sign the petition.

You must not live in a state gerreymandered by Democrats.

Actually a decent programmer should be able to develop a program that equalizes district populations while minimizing district boundaries. But that would be too logical.

 

[essentialsaltes]

You must not live in a state gerreymandered by Democrats.

Not yet, but come November it might be.

 

[DaisyDay]

I don't know why we should consider Australia to be a good example for anything let alone this.

A gratuitous insult highlighting an ignorance of Australia! He explained exactly why.

 

[Zaha Torte]

A gratuitous insult highlighting an ignorance of Australia! He explained exactly why.

What insult?

And no - he gave no reasons.

He claimed that Australia was superior because they are a "full democracy" - which he has no basis for claiming.

The US is a Constitutional Republic.

And no one has convinced anyone that redistricting is somehow wrong in any way.

 

[Saucy]

No. What's hypocritical throwing a tantrum because Texas did it when Democrats have done it many times over in Michigan, Illinois, California, etc, etc, etc. They also want to pack the court and turn everything they can in their favor because they can't stand losing.

 

[eclipsenow]

Would WOKE condemn Illinois gerrymandering and California gerrymandering and the gerrymandering that goes on in woke controlled states? Should I hold my breath? I don't think so.

I'm Australian - and just look on in sadness at all this weird undemocratic wrangling of districts - where politicians decide how they are going to choose their voters - not the other way around!

But to your point. As the kids say in primary school - "He started it!"
Newsome didn't want to have to go this route - but Texas is forcing his hand.

See - when the left see MAGA doing undemocratic rubbish like this - we hear echoes.
We see Trump telling revved up crazies near the Capitol to "Fight or you're not going to have a country left!"
We hear Trump pressuring the Georgia Secretary of State. "“All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have."
We hear the narcissism and flagrant disregard for the law and democratic processes that is Trump's Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
More than 230 doctors say Trump is too unstable to be president in open letter
Especially when he is asked "Do you think the President should uphold the Constitution?"
Trump: "I don't know."

Trump's NPD makes him an extremely dangerous person to be in the Oval Office. Over 230 psychiatrists at the link above tried to warn the world - but his racist 'othering' of immigrants spoke too loudly, his constant condemning of Biden's economics without looking at the facts, and his anti-science anti-climate anti-vax message got through to the anti-reality forces within MAGA.

I despair for America's future under this regime!

And if your only answer is to try and turn around and blame The Gavinator of California for doing the same thing - then you're not being honest with yourself! Texas started it. I condemn the whole SYSTEM for even allowing it!

Australia is only 124 years old - and we have sea-to-shining-sea commissions that handle this stuff. Our Parliament's cannot touch it!

America as a Federation is nearly twice that - 236 years old. Why haven't you guys sorted this out yet?

 

[eclipsenow]

The boundaries of districts are a state responsibility. The only requirement is that more or less the same number of people is in each district. So there is no Federal government control of district boundaries. But do you think that would automagically fix anything?

State or Federal control of redistributing at the State level is not the point!
You obviously skipped over my OP.
Go back and read it again.
See what Australia does.
Or you're just going to sound uninformed on this thread.

 

[eclipsenow]

I don't know why we should consider Australia to be a good example for anything let alone this.

I'll tell you why, with evidence, and I would be very interested if you can argue against this position based on actual evidence (not just your opinion or gut feels or whatever!)

Many independent democracy-watch agencies rate Australia a FULL democracy - and America a FLAWED democracy.
That means America has significant 'democratic decline' - as measured some of these characteristics:

• Free and fair elections are degraded;
• Liberal rights of freedom of speech, press[22] and association decline, impairing the ability of the political opposition to challenge the government, hold it to account, and propose alternatives to the current regime;
• The rule of law (i.e., judicial and bureaucratic restraints on the government) is weakened, such as when the independence of the judiciary is threatened, or when civil service tenure protections are weakened or eliminated.
• An over-emphasis on national security as response to acts of terrorism or perceived antagonists.
• Democratic backsliding - Wikipedia

So who has rated American poorly? The Economist Democracy Index. There are 4 grades from FULL to AUTOCRACY - so congratulations - America has taken their first step in that direction!

The global and largest database of democratic performance, the V-Dem Institute, calls their report "Democracy Trumped" and opens with this paragraph:

A Word from the Authors WE ARE PLEASED TO PRESENT the 9th annual Democracy Report 2025: 25 Years of Autocratization – Democracy Trumped? When we were finishing up the last touches on the Democracy Report three years ago, Russia launched its full-scale, illegal invasion of Ukraine. The war is still going on. But back then, the alliance backing this young, aspiring democracy was solid and included the United States of America.​

​

AS WE ARE finishing up this year’s Democracy Report, recently inaugurated President Trump is voting against NATO allies in the UN joining with autocracies like North Korea, Russia, and Sudan. Military support to Ukraine was just cut off, and the words coming out of the Trump administration echo Kremlin rhetoric. European leaders are scrambling to mount a sufficient response. The world is going through another convulsion.​

Have European thought-leaders ever reported on an American administration like this?

On page 9 they give the USA 0.7-0.8 compared to Australia's 0.9-1.0.
You have democratic decline.

There are others - but this will do for now.

 

[eclipsenow]

No. What's hypocritical throwing a tantrum because Texas did it when Democrats have done it many times over in Michigan, Illinois, California, etc, etc, etc. They also want to pack the court and turn everything they can in their favor because they can't stand losing.

Except we're not talking about ancient history - we're talking about this year's incident.

Texas does it? MAGA cheer. California does it? MAGA whine and complain!

It's quite simple: do you want more democracy or less?
Do you want to pick your politicians, or have them pick you?

IF you condemn this - it's not a pre-school shouting match of "They started it". (Which in this year would be MAGA! Oh - and by the way - California appear to have taken steps to make redistricting harder in that they have to overturn the current system to even attempt it - and that's no 100% guaranteed to happen.)

It's about universally and consistently condemning Gerrymandering where-ever it happens!
It's about demanding better of your system.

Can you honestly say that you would prefer an independent Commission that is bipartisan, run by experts, and mathematically constitutionally prescribed? If not - you want less democracy - not more.

If not - you don't mind a certain amount of democratic backsliding and heading towards autocracy.
Oh - as long as 'your side' wins. Otherwise it's the end of the world!?

But I thought democracy was about trying to invent a system that ensured freedom - no matter which 'side' got in! I thought it was more about a SYSTEM that meant you did not fear for your human rights if the OTHER guys got their hands on all those extra powers being accumulated by the current regime!

Hint: Every time you're tempted to cheer on Trump grabbing just that little bit MORE executive power - ask yourself this.

Would I be happy if Gavin Newsom won the next Federal election - and he got that extra power?​

If you cannot answer yes, then democratic backsliding is probably the reason!​

 

[Pommer]

Would WOKE condemn Illinois gerrymandering and California gerrymandering and the gerrymandering that goes on in woke controlled states? Should I hold my breath? I don't think so.

I’m sorry, I don’t know who the spokesperson is for this “WOKE” (organization?).

 

[eclipsenow]

I’m sorry, I don’t know who the spokesperson is for this “WOKE” (organization?).

I thought woke was a bit on the nose here as a term. Kind of like saying all MAGA are tobacco chewing gum toting rednecka sitting in their rocking chairs on their unpainted front verandas yelling "Get off ma lawn!"

But I wouldn't want to generalise!

 

[7thKeeper]

What insult?

And no - he gave no reasons.

He claimed that Australia was superior because they are a "full democracy" - which he has no basis for claiming.

The US is a Constitutional Republic.

And no one has convinced anyone that redistricting is somehow wrong in any way.

Really? Come on, no one is that daft.

I don't know why we should consider Australia to be a good example for anything let alone this.

"Good example for anything"... Really? You claim you don't see the insult there?

And I can't believe how many times this needs to be said, this HAS to be a talking point circulated around certain segments of the US conservative social circles despite how utterly wrong it is.

A Constitutional Republic IS a form of democracy. The USA is a democracy.