Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

[Chesterton]

I personally don’t need it in this context, but there are certainly times that going through something provides relevance and context that reshapes people’s opinions.

It sounds like you're talking about some species of human I don't believe I've ever met. Like people who never think about things. Like a man whose daughter was killed last week by a drunk driver and says "I never thought drinking and driving was a big deal, but now I'm really against it!"

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I have empathy. Why should I care what he said about it? And I care even less about what villains trying to vilify him within an hour after his violent death say about him.

Wait, who’s vilifying him? I’m certainly not. His opinions were the worst but that is zero excuse to attack or assassinate/murder him. He has every right to freedom of speech without fear of assassination, regardless of his viewpoints and my opinion on them. In a free society, we cannot just shoot people we don’t like.

What is it in “American President?” “You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." Americans don’t need to agree but they do need to not resort to violence to subdue somebody who’s saying something you don’t want to hear. I said it when Trump was shot, I’ll say it again here.

 

[Chesterton]

Wait, who’s vilifying him?

The Leftist social media hounds.

I’m certainly not.

I didn't say you were.

 

[High Fidelity]

What gets me is just how sensless this was. Yeah he was an agitator who absolutely contributed to this toxic environment we're in but also no, he doesn't deserve to be a victim of this toxic environment we are in. No one does. I feel for everyone that witnessed this. The video of it is sickening. I feel for his family and friends who don't just see him through a phone screen like I do. I feel for Charlie. He did not deserve this.

I have seen some stuff in my life, but that video has really stuck with me.

Far from the first time I've seen things like it, or worse, but never in that context.

The exchange of ideas, regardless of how heated or contested, should not result in this.

And now things will probably get far worse.

 

[wing2000]

Violence is never a solution.
These are dark times in our country.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Oh for Pete’s sake. Try to let go of your need to be right in every argument and try ignoring the responses you feel are beneath you somehow. It’s not only about you and your pov. I replied to a post I agreed with. Get over it.

Do you need a Snickers, my dude? Because you’re being all wound up over fighting with ghosts only you can see.

So, more directly and distinctly since you’re apparently in a bit of a mood, I was doing you a courtesy to let you know we were discussing a different topic so you could join us in that topic because you appeared interested and the thread is 6 pages long. That’s it.

You want to keep talking about flours when we are talking about flowers, have at it. Enjoy.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I had never heard of Mr. Kirk before today. I am sorry for him and his family, but I am also sad for us...that this is the world we now live in where senseless violence can descend on anyone at any time unabated. God help us all.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

It sounds like you're talking about some species of human I don't believe I've ever met. Like people who never think about things. Like a man whose daughter was killed last week by a drunk driver and says "I never thought drinking and driving was a big deal, but now I'm really against it!"

Well, I’m that species of human, so I’m glad to meet you. I’m an extremely empathetic person, but I can list probably a dozen things that I didn’t realize the true weight or concern of until I myself or somebody I love went though it. Moving from the abstract in the cheap seats to front row of a very concrete circus provides a lot of perspective. I’m not at all ashamed to say there are opinions I held quite strongly until experiencing a topic in the real as opposed to the hypothetical.

To be frank, I can’t think of anybody who doesn’t get a degree of perspective when an idea goes from being a “what would I do if?” to a “what am I going to do now.”

 

[Tropical Wilds]

The Leftist social media hounds.

I didn't say you were.

One can never be sure if they’re the leftist social media hound you’re upset with this thread because they were the leftest social media hound you were upset with in the last thread. So just making sure.

 

[Chesterton]

Well, I’m that species of human, so I’m glad to meet you. I’m an extremely empathetic person, but I can list probably a dozen things that I didn’t realize the true weight or concern of until I myself or somebody I love went though it. Moving from the abstract in the cheap seats to front row of a very concrete circus provides a lot of perspective. I’m not at all ashamed to say there are opinions I held quite strongly until experiencing a topic in the real as opposed to the hypothetical.

To be frank, I can’t think of anybody who doesn’t get a degree of perspective when an idea goes from being a “what would I do if?” to a “what am I going to do now.”

Glad to meet you, too. C. S. Lewis had a couple of terms for people like you, but I know I shouldn't include them here.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Glad to meet you, too. C. S. Lewis had a couple of terms for people like you, but I know I shouldn't include them here.

Well, now I’m fascinated because CS Lewis and Tolkien were both big proponents of the idea there’s what you know and you believe, then there’s how life shapes what you now know and believe as a result. “Til We Have Faces” was basically entirely about that shift, and it was kind of genre-defining for insight and character growth through awareness. I find it near impossible to believe that CS Lewis had a term for it that was so negative that it can’t be shared on the forum, especially since he was a big proponent of the philosophy in basically all of his books in one way or another.

Are you maybe confusing the words “apathy” and “empathy?” So when I say I have empathy, but that takes a whole new relevance when I see it up close and personally, you think I’m saying I don’t care until it happens to me? Because that’s certainly not what I’m getting at…

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Violence is never a solution.
These are dark times in our country.

It's especially concerning given the type of free speech advocate he was.

From what I can tell, Charlie wasn't a guy who only sling controversial viewpoints in a "bubbled environment", and then sign off for the day.

He was one of the few people who give anyone who was opposed to him ample opportunity to challenge him through debate.

And while I obviously don't agree with all of his views, his approach was something that you can't say for every pundit. A lot of times, they go and get in their 30-second soundbytes and jabs on a "safe network" with no opposition and preach only to the amen corner.

I've been watching some of his clips, seems like his approach was "here's an open mic, if you disagree with me, by all means state your case"

Seems as if some hyper-partisan people see "disagrees with me + I can't beat them in a debate" as a double threat.

For all the scummy stuff that Alex Jones has done and said, I'm not aware of anyone trying anything like this with him (likely because he's easy enough to beat in the marketplace of ideas)

Possible that people see "Ideas I disagree with" + "sliver of truth in some of it, so they're convincing in some aspects" as a particularly "enraging" type of political opponent?

Political discourse (like any other game)... If someone has to "cheat" or "rig the game", that's likely emblematic of being frustrated because they can't win fair and square.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

MSN

They're evidently looking for someone that was captured on video running across the roof just after the shooting.

 

[wing2000]

He was one of the few people who give anyone who was opposed to him ample opportunity to challenge him through debate.

I agree. If people no longer feel safe to exchange ideas and engage in debate, America is done.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I agree. If people no longer feel safe to exchange ideas and engage in debate, America is done.

...not to mention.

As much as this has to scare other conservative political activists, progressive political activists will likely being reigning in their appearances and presentations as well due to fear of retaliation attacks.

So whoever this assassin was, they did a disservice to their own tribe as well.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I agree. If people no longer feel safe to exchange ideas and engage in debate, America is done.

I think America is pretty much gone. Both sides of the political sides, are to extreme. Both sides don't want to compromise.

 

[Chesterton]

Well, now I’m fascinated because CS Lewis and Tolkien were both big proponents of the idea there’s what you know and you believe, then there’s how life shapes what you now know and believe as a result. “Til We Have Faces” was basically entirely about that shift, and it was kind of genre-defining for insight and character growth through awareness. I find it near impossible to believe that CS Lewis had a term for it that was so negative that it can’t be shared on the forum, especially since he was a big proponent of the philosophy in basically all of his books in one way or another.

Are you maybe confusing the words “apathy” and “empathy?” So when I say I have empathy, but that takes a whole new relevance when I see it up close and personally, you think I’m saying I don’t care until it happens to me? Because that’s certainly not what I’m getting at…

Lacking empathy, and realizing you were wrong about something you previously believed, are two different things.

 

[Chesterton]

MSNBC OUTDOES ITSELF!

In some truly Pulitzer Prize deserving reporting, we learn that:

1. the shooter may have been a Kirk supporter firing off a gun in happy celebration of Kirk being there;

2. Trump may use this assassination as justification for sending troops into Orem, Utah as he did in D.C.; and

3. if you have awful thoughts and express them with awful words you should expect awful actions.

 

[Servus]

What happened is tragic and shocking, but assassinations have taken place for centuries. And before bullets there were arrows.

 

[RileyG]

I think America is pretty much gone. Both sides of the political sides, are to extreme. Both sides don't want to compromise.

It’s so sad. I wish we all, regardless of political affiliation, can get along.

I’m not pointing fingers at anyone.

I can only pray for peace.