Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2)

[rjs330]

How do we know that that boatload of folk actually are jihadists? How do we know they have a bunch of bombs? How do we know they are heading towards America? It would help to know their names to be sure that they are what you're claiming they are.

Its called intel. Intel you aren't privy to because it could compromise the Intel and those providing it. Dont be foolish.

 

[rjs330]

Let's see their names and alleged crimes. All eleven of them.

Nonsense utter nonsense.

 

[wing2000]

We know that they were members of the narc cartels and that's all I need to know.

No, we do not know that.

 

[wing2000]

Nonsense utter nonsense.

Why?

When the US government takes out terrorists, it's common practice to annouce who we got.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The Sacklers have been put in their place, and lessons were learned.

How did that happen? Did it involve courts and trials? Maybe that can be tried with drug crimes instead of death from above.

 

[wing2000]

Its called intel. Intel you aren't privy to because it could compromise the Intel and those providing it. Dont be foolish.

Sharing details of those killed does not reveal sources and methods.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Its called intel. Intel you aren't privy to because it could compromise the Intel and those providing it. Dont be foolish.

I don't have to see it, but a court should see it. Otherwise we have a star chamber and extrajudicial executions.

 

[wing2000]

Executive Orders come and Executive Orders go.

By the will of the Executive. You can't charge a sitting president for disobeying an Executive Order. And a sitting president won't prosecute a subordinate for disobeying the EO of a previous president that the sitting president disagrees with.

And there's nothing Congress can do about a president who ignores the EO of a previous president.

The president is not under the jurisdiction of the UCMJ, and the Supreme Court has given him unprecedented qualified immunity.

Yes, you alraady made the point. Prior followed the EO. This one obviously did not....because he can.
He could care less about the reputation of the U.S. Military, our country or International law.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

There are many angles to this conversation, but one very important one is this...

A family man who snorts coke on weekends every now and then accidentally buys pure powder fentanyl from someone on the street... And dies instantly.

Coke is bad, no doubt. But the man didn't deserve that kind of death. Some of your comrades think it's okay if that happens - I don't.

They make testing kits so you can be sure the stuff you got is what you actually wanted and is (generally) safe for consumption. I would still stay away from the stuff as it is most likely cut with a ton of other nasty stuff but at least you can be sure there’s no fentanyl in it.

 

[rambot]

The private health insurance companies make the best decisions that give the best outcome to both the insured and the shareholders.

Sometimes up here in Canada I just call random shareholders for their opinions on things. I spoke to a hedge fund manager about my Graves Disease.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Yes, that's correct @essentialsaltes. Dont look so suprised..! The cartels are responsible for all the addictions and deaths of the American citizens, by providing knowingly addictive substances. They know *exactly* what they're doing, and they know what their products do to people. The consumer is the victim.

...Especially when it's known that the mentally ill tend to self medicate, statistically.

Self-Medication of Mental Health Problems: New Evidence from a National Survey - PMC Self-Medication of Mental Health Problems: New Evidence from a National Survey - PMC

What are we as a country doing to help these victims on our end? Of course, you can blow up all the dinghies in the Caribbean but that’s not going to put addicts in the US into the rehab and mental health programs they desperately need to kick their addictions. I would more believe your sincerity on this matter if I saw we were actually doing something to help these people directly and not just blowing up random boats way out off the coasts of Venezuela.

 

[Vambram]

No, we don't actually know that. The government has said that they were, but the government (especially the current administration) has been known to lie and stretch the truth when it suits its aims. And how is anyone going to disprove their claims?

Yeah. I'm a big believer in the Constitution. Aren't you? I'm also a believer in government accountability. If there's a trial, then We the People can see the evidence and hear any defense that the accused make, and know, once the verdict is rendered, whether the accused truly are guilty of the charges. If the government can just unilaterally declare people to be terrorists or drug traffickers and summarily execute them, how are we to know the truth? All we'll ever get is the government's side of the story. Didn't you and the rest of the Trump supporters on this site just spend the last 4 years harping on about how the government was unjustly charging people with crimes?

All I see here is complaining that a narco cartels boat carrying illegal drugs meant to kill Americans was destroyed.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Imagine making profits by destroying all that's left that was good, of the lives of handicapped individuals? Preying on the most vulnerable of all..? It's disgusting.

Execute all fentanyl smugglers..

Why stop at the smugglers?

Fentanyl is a pharmaceutical drug. Maybe we should be going after the manufacturers who are making tens of billions off their products that are knowingly ending up in a black market and getting innocent people killed.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Yes, God's people should care. If Trump committed a terrorist act on Venezuela. American people look bad. Our military look bad. And so do the Christians. Since the people, that voted for Trump. They Claims to be Christians. Trump just basically had Americans do a terrorist act on Venezuela. Just like Osama Bin Laden did on 911. I'm sure other countries are noticing this.

It’s ok. Some believe these people will all eventually have to answer to God.

 

[johansen]

America did NOT committ a terrorist act against Venezuela. What America did is destroy a boat with cartel members that was carrying illegal drugs meant to kill Americans. This is justice and self defense.

it still looks bad but no one would bat an eye if some other small country did the same to some other small country.
its 11 kartel operators.

its not 10,000,000 people in south africa who profited off of the past civil war.

you want justice? lets just go kill everyone on the planet who has killed someone or voted for someone who killed someone. -that's like 99% of the planet.

 

[johansen]

All I see here is complaining that a narco cartels boat carrying illegal drugs meant to kill Americans was destroyed.

yep, wah, wah wah.

Fentanyl is a pharmaceutical drug. Maybe we should be going after the manufacturers who are making tens of billions off their products that are knowingly ending up in a black market and getting innocent people killed.

one of the things i've been thinking about lately is that there is a balance of forces and power between "the state" and "the people"

it is, in fact, in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA's best interest, to let the pharmaceutical companies make as much money as possible off the weak and the dying. stocks must go up, which profits everyone who can have a stock portfolio--usually not the weak or the dying.

it is not in the "christian society" of "america's" best interest to encourage or even allow the government of the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" to profit off of ... well... anything. yet they happily thank me for my military service and dutifully pay their taxes.

 

[RDKirk]

it still looks bad but no one would bat an eye if some other small country did the same to some other small country.

It's already dropped out of the headlines in the US.

"The pace of repression outstrips our ability to understand it. And that is the real trick of the Imperial thought machine. It’s easier to hide behind forty atrocities than a single incident.” -- Karis Nemik, "Star Wars: Andor"

 

[wing2000]

All I see here is complaining that a narco cartels boat carrying illegal drugs meant to kill Americans was destroyed.

Instead of engaing on the points made, you chose to mischaracterize the arguments being made.

The fact is, the Navy could have interdicted the vessal, arrested the the alleged narcos for questioning, prosection etc and disposed of the boat. Instead, the POTUS chose to blow it out of the water.

 

[johansen]

The fact is, the Navy could have interdicted the vessal, arrested the the alleged narcos for questioning, prosection etc and disposed of the boat. Instead, the POTUS chose to blow it out of the water.

which would result in the destruction of hardly 1 man years worth of narcotics and would result in those 11 people back at it again within a few years.

 

[wing2000]

which would result in the destruction of hardly 1 man years worth of narcotics and would result in those 11 people back at it again within a few years.

We don't know how much (if any) narcotics were destroyed. And we don't know if 11 people were are all involved in narcotics.
So let's say 4 of the 11 where traffickers....except instead of narcotics they were tafficking the 7 other individuals on the boat. Those who study drug trafficking note it would be unsual to have a drug shipment manned by an 11 man crew....for a small boat....

Is it really better to shoot first and ask questions later? (or in this case, shoot first, and continue to do so without asking any questions...the adminstration has promised to continue these type of operations).