Limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

If you receive the free gift of salvation by your free will then how could you brag about anything? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Sounds like bragging rights to me

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Sounds like bragging rights to me

Calvinists can brag that they're chosen by God

 

[Brightfame52]

Calvinists can brag that they're chosen by God

People like you brag on their will

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

People like you brag on their will

What you're saying is ridiculous

 

[Brightfame52]

What you're saying is ridiculous

No its the Truth, freewill boasting

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

No its the Truth, freewill boasting

Then you can also boast if you live like a derelict and you use your free will to get free money from the government. Or if you just use your free will in anything. Like I said you're being ridiculous.

 

[Brightfame52]

Then you can also boast if you live like a derelict and you use your free will to get free money from the government. Or if you just use your free will in anything. Like I said you're being ridiculous.

freewillers are boasters

 

[tall73]

Yet Jesus said:

““I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.” (Joh 10:11 NKJV)

Not, "The good shepherd gives His life for the whole world."

In context He was contrasting the shepherds of Israel, who served their own interests, rather than the sheep. He is recalling OT passages that speak about the leaders of Israel, and how God will reject them, and will Himself Shepherd the sheep. He is the true Good Shepherd, who doesn't abuse the sheep, but lays down His life for them.

For instance:

Ezekiel 34:1-24​

1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”​

​

7 ‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 8 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”— 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the LORD! 10 Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”​

​

11 ‘For thus says the Lord GOD: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord GOD. 16 “I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”​

​

17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”​

20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord GOD to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken. (NKJV)​

The Lord says He will Shepherd His sheep, and also His servant David.

Jesus is God in the flesh, and the Son of David.

John 10 follows closely on the heals of chapter 9, where the pharisees had just put a man out of the synagogue because He recognized that His healing by Jesus was a work of God. They should have been praising God for this healing of the man, and instead they kicked him out.

They were mistreating God's sheep to protect their own authority. And Jesus points out that they are false shepherds.

Later on in the same chapter, He tells some of His hearers that they are not of His sheep:

““But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.” (Joh 10:26 NKJV)

And to the same group, who He just said were not His sheep, because they were not following Him, He then said:

John 10:37-38 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (NKJV)​

​

Jesus appeals to them to become His sheep and follow Him.

 

[Brightfame52]

@tall73

Jesus appeals to them to become His sheep and follow Him

False, Jesus Sheep are His prior to them ever hearing His voice and following Him Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[tall73]

​

@tall73


False, Jesus Sheep are His prior to them ever hearing His voice and following Him Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Those following God are His sheep. And those following God heard Jesus' voice. Jesus in His incarnation called to those who already knew the Lord, and they heard the voice of their True Shepherd.

But also, He appeals to those He just called not His sheep to believe:

John 10:38 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (NKJV)​

​

This is similar to chapter 5 where He indicated they did not have the word of His Father abiding in them.

John 5:32-47​

32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.​

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (NKJV)​

​

• They did not believe in Jesus
• They did not have God's word abiding in them
• They did not seek honor that comes from God but from Men
• They did not believe Moses or the Scriptures
• They are not willing to come to Him that they may have life.

But, Jesus mentioned all of this, not to condemn them, but so that they may be saved:

34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved.​

Those who were following God were sheep, and they recognized the voice of their Shepherd when the Word made flesh appeared. They were already believing the Scriptures. They were already believing the testimony of John. They already had God's word abiding in their heart.

Those Jesus is appealing to in chapter 5 and chapter 10 still could believe and be saved, and He wants them to, and He says these things so they might be saved, and that they may believe on the testimony of :

• Moses
• Scripture
• John the Baptist
• The miraculous works, or signs
• The Father

@Spiritual Jew @Jack Terrence and @zoidar pointed some of these things out to you.

Jesus pointing back to John's witness is important because John was the messenger that prepared the way.

​

It was this witness that the pharisees and lawyers rejected, even though God's purpose for THEM was that they be baptized in repentence, ready to receive their King:

Luke 7:29-35 29 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.​

​

And in John 5 he then calls them to go back to where they got off track, receive John's testimony, receive that of Moses and Scripture, receive it based on the miracles, receive it based on the testimony of the Father, and be saved. He mentions it so they may be saved.

 

[tall73]

You haven't disproven limited atonement all you have done is just quoted verses

If you try to claim that, then you are contradicting 1 John 2:1-2 which says He sacrificed Himself for the sins of the whole world and John 3:16 which says that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. The world includes all people including the ones mentioned in John 3:19 who choose to love darkness rather than the light that went into the darkness in the world. It includes the false prophets and teachers that Peter said deny the Lord who bought them (2 Peter 2:1).

Of course those who are not His sheep do not believe. That does not mean they were not capable of believing.

Right, which is why Jesus invites those same ones He called not His sheep, to believe:

​

John 10:38 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (NKJV)​

You clearly only look at some of scripture rather than taking all of scripture into account and there is no excuse for that. God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and your doctrine contradicts that. God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30)

Indeed.

and your doctrine says that some people are not even able to obey that command, which makes no sense for God to make that command of all people everywhere in that case. There are so many scriptures that you are not taking into account here.

1 Timothy 4:10-11​

10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 11 These things command and teach. (NKJV)​

​

 

[tall73]

If you receive the free gift of salvation by your free will then how could you brag about anything? Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Yes, there is no boasting, because we are saved not through works, but believing in Jesus:

Romans 4:1-4 1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. (NKJV)​

 

[tall73]

I valued and responded to God's love, loving Him in return.

Yes, God first loved us, demonstrating that love in Christ, and we respond, to Him, and to each other:

​

1 John 4:8-11 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. (NKJV)​

 

[tall73]

Christs death is limited to them He obtained Eternal Redemption for, since what He obtains for us He lives to ensure the application of it Heb 9:12

neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now by His own Blood signifies His Death, which by it He obtained eternal redemption for certain ones. Now who are they?

That passage is referring not only to Christ's blood, which fulfilled the shedding of blood in all the sacrifices of the earthly sanctuary, but to Christ's ENTRY into the true tabernacle, into God's presence, to present His sacrifice.

Particularly in mind is the Day of Atonement entry, by means of blood.

Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)​

Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.​

​

• He entered once for all
• He entered as High Priest
• He entered the sanctuary not made with hands
• He entered the Holy Places
• He entered by means of/through His own blood as contrasted with entry by means of blood of bulls and goats

​

The day of atonement in the earthly provided atonement for the sins of all the assembly of Israel, and for the sanctuary where God dwells in their midst:

15 “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness. 17 There shall be no man in the tabernacle of meeting when he goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself, for his household, and for all the assembly of Israel. Leviticus 16:15-17 (NKJV)​

The sins and transgressions of the people require atonement of all the people, and even the sanctuary.

This was done by the High Priest for "all the assembly of Israel".

However, not all actually benefited from it. Those who did not afflict their souls when the high priest was atoning for them were cut off from the people. The provision was made, they could avail themselves, but did not.

29 “This shall be a statute forever for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether a native of your own country or a stranger who dwells among you. 30 For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the LORD. 31 It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. 32 And the priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as priest in his father’s place, shall make atonement, and put on the linen clothes, the holy garments; 33 then he shall make atonement for the Holy Sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tabernacle of meeting and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. Leviticus 16:29-33 (NKJV)​

26 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: 27 “Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the LORD. 28 And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before the LORD your God. 29 For any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people. 30 And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31 You shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” Leviticus 23:26-32 (NKJV)​

The provision was made for all. But those who did not regard it were cut off, and did not benefit.

And we see the same in Hebrews. The true sanctuary, heaven itself, needed cleansing, per Hebrews, due to sin. Jesus entered into God's presence on our behalf, to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Hebrews 9:23-26​

23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.​

​

Hebrews 1:3 affirms that having Himself made purification for sins, Jesus sat down at the right hand of God:

3 Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, having Himself made purification for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.​

​

Jesus finished all the blood work, once for all, and that is sufficient to cleans those who come to Him (He has granted greater access than in the earthly). We go to Him at the throne of grace to receive mercy and grace:

Hebrews 4:14-16​

14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (NKJV)​

This is why Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for not only our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2​

2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV)​

He made provision for the whole assembly.

Therefore, we are to approach boldly, rather than draw back, so we may receive the benefits of His completed sacrifice:

Hebrews 10:19-39​

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.​

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

​

32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:​

37 “For yet a little while,​

And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.​

38 Now the just shall live by faith;​

But if anyone draws back,​

My soul has no pleasure in him.”​

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. (NKJV)​

He has confidence that those hearing will not draw back to perdition, to fearful expectation of judgment, with no more sacrifice for sins, but will continue in the faith, and draw near to Christ through the way He made.

Those who are saved are those who come to Him, trust in Him, and remain in Him. But the provision was there for all to be cleansed,. Purification was made for all sins, and for the heavenly things themselves.

But some reject it and are cut off, going to perdition.

Recall back in Chapter 1 vs 14

Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Yes, and the author immediately warns against NEGLECTING so great a salvation already provided:

​

Hebrews 1:14 - 2:4​

14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? 1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? (NKJV)​

 

[tall73]

Thats the regenerated one, quickened, then they show they are quickened when they call upon the name of the Lord in Faith Ps 80:18

So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

This person understood that, you dont

Will a person seek God if they are not born again?

 

[tall73]

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

The world sounds pretty inclusive to me.

Well its on you to prove that world in these verses means everyone without exception since it doesnt say that.

Anyone knows world in the bible has a diverse of meanings, so you need to prove the meaning you assume, like all mankind without exception. So exegete all your references to world please, thats your responsibility

Well, it does.

“For God so loved the world (whoever in the world, believer or unbeliever), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world (those in the world who don't believe - see John 12:47), but that the world (those in the world who believe) might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
— John 12:46-47

You see it makes no sense "world" in John 3:16 refers to only the elect, since "world" in John 3:17 refers to unbelievers.

Yes, God sent His son into the world, because He loved the world, in order to save the world.

And some in the world believed and were saved. And some did not believe and were not saved. and those who rejected the light that came into the world were also in the world:

John 3:16-21​

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.​

​

17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.​

​

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​

​

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.​

​

20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” (NKJV)​

The Light has come into the world. The people of the world react in two ways:

1. Some of the men of the world love darkness rather than the Light. They are condemned.​

​

2. Some come to the Light. They are saved.​

All the people of the world, into which the Light came, are present, in two groups--those who believe, and those who do not.

The Son of Man came down from heaven, into the world. He is lifted up. And those who believe will not perish. But He is lifted up for all to believe, or not:

John 3:12-15​

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. (NKJV)​

 

[Brightfame52]

​

Those following God are His sheep. And those following God heard Jesus' voice. Jesus in His incarnation called to those who already knew the Lord, and they heard the voice of their True Shepherd.

But also, He appeals to those He just called not His sheep to believe:

John 10:38 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (NKJV)​

​

This is similar to chapter 5 where He indicated they did not have the word of His Father abiding in them.

John 5:32-47​

32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.​

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (NKJV)​

​

• They did not believe in Jesus
• They did not have God's word abiding in them
• They did not seek honor that comes from God but from Men
• They did not believe Moses or the Scriptures
• They are not willing to come to Him that they may have life.

But, Jesus mentioned all of this, not to condemn them, but so that they may be saved:

34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved.​

Those who were following God were sheep, and they recognized the voice of their Shepherd when the Word made flesh appeared. They were already believing the Scriptures. They were already believing the testimony of John. They already had God's word abiding in their heart.

Those Jesus is appealing to in chapter 5 and chapter 10 still could believe and be saved, and He wants them to, and He says these things so they might be saved, and that they may believe on the testimony of :

• Moses
• Scripture
• John the Baptist
• The miraculous works, or signs
• The Father

@Spiritual Jew @Jack Terrence and @zoidar pointed some of these things out to you.

Jesus pointing back to John's witness is important because John was the messenger that prepared the way.

​

It was this witness that the pharisees and lawyers rejected, even though God's purpose for THEM was that they be baptized in repentence, ready to receive their King:

Luke 7:29-35 29 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.​

​

And in John 5 he then calls them to go back to where they got off track, receive John's testimony, receive that of Moses and Scripture, receive it based on the miracles, receive it based on the testimony of the Father, and be saved. He mentions it so they may be saved.

They are Christ's sheep before they follow him and that is why they do end up following him

 

[Brightfame52]

Right, which is why Jesus invites those same ones He called not His sheep, to believe:

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John 10:38 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (NKJV)​

Indeed.

1 Timothy 4:10-11​

10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 11 These things command and teach. (NKJV)​

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Jesus called none but his sheep!

 

[Brightfame52]

That passage is referring not only to Christ's blood, which fulfilled the shedding of blood in all the sacrifices of the earthly sanctuary, but to Christ's ENTRY into the true tabernacle, into God's presence, to present His sacrifice.

Particularly in mind is the Day of Atonement entry, by means of blood.

Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)​

Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.​

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• He entered once for all
• He entered as High Priest
• He entered the sanctuary not made with hands
• He entered the Holy Places
• He entered by means of/through His own blood as contrasted with entry by means of blood of bulls and goats

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The day of atonement in the earthly provided atonement for the sins of all the assembly of Israel, and for the sanctuary where God dwells in their midst:

15 “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness. 17 There shall be no man in the tabernacle of meeting when he goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself, for his household, and for all the assembly of Israel. Leviticus 16:15-17 (NKJV)​

The sins and transgressions of the people require atonement of all the people, and even the sanctuary.

This was done by the High Priest for "all the assembly of Israel".

However, not all actually benefited from it. Those who did not afflict their souls when the high priest was atoning for them were cut off from the people. The provision was made, they could avail themselves, but did not.

29 “This shall be a statute forever for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether a native of your own country or a stranger who dwells among you. 30 For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the LORD. 31 It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. 32 And the priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as priest in his father’s place, shall make atonement, and put on the linen clothes, the holy garments; 33 then he shall make atonement for the Holy Sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tabernacle of meeting and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. Leviticus 16:29-33 (NKJV)​

26 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: 27 “Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the LORD. 28 And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before the LORD your God. 29 For any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people. 30 And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31 You shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” Leviticus 23:26-32 (NKJV)​

The provision was made for all. But those who did not regard it were cut off, and did not benefit.

And we see the same in Hebrews. The true sanctuary, heaven itself, needed cleansing, per Hebrews, due to sin. Jesus entered into God's presence on our behalf, to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Hebrews 9:23-26​

23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.​

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Hebrews 1:3 affirms that having Himself made purification for sins, Jesus sat down at the right hand of God:

3 Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, having Himself made purification for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.​

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Jesus finished all the blood work, once for all, and that is sufficient to cleans those who come to Him (He has granted greater access than in the earthly). We go to Him at the throne of grace to receive mercy and grace:

Hebrews 4:14-16​

14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (NKJV)​

This is why Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for not only our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2​

2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV)​

He made provision for the whole assembly.

Therefore, we are to approach boldly, rather than draw back, so we may receive the benefits of His completed sacrifice:

Hebrews 10:19-39​

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.​

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

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32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:​

37 “For yet a little while,​

And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.​

38 Now the just shall live by faith;​

But if anyone draws back,​

My soul has no pleasure in him.”​

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. (NKJV)​

He has confidence that those hearing will not draw back to perdition, to fearful expectation of judgment, with no more sacrifice for sins, but will continue in the faith, and draw near to Christ through the way He made.

Those who are saved are those who come to Him, trust in Him, and remain in Him. But the provision was there for all to be cleansed,. Purification was made for all sins, and for the heavenly things themselves.

But some reject it and are cut off, going to perdition.





Yes, and the author immediately warns against NEGLECTING so great a salvation already provided:

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Hebrews 1:14 - 2:4​

14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? 1 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. 2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? (NKJV)​

He obtained eternal redemption for The heirs the sheep

 

[Brightfame52]

Will a person seek God if they are not born again?

Absolutely not, now they may seek a false god but not the true God