Limited atonement !

[zoidar]

Believing is a benefit of having had ones sins already atoned for, one doesnt believe because thy were not one of the Sheep Christ atoned for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Ok, but the Scripture doesn't say we believe because our sins have already been atoned for. You don't find that a problem?

 

[Brightfame52]

Ok, but the Scripture doesn't say we believe because our sins have already been atoned for. You don't find that a problem?

It doesn't need your sound bite, you don't find that a problem?

 

[zoidar]

It doesn't need your sound bite, you don't find that a problem?

I wanted to make you think.

 

[Brightfame52]

I wanted to make you think.

God has done that for me

 

[Brightfame52]

Paul preached particular effectual atonement for his Gospel, using the scriptures for his guide 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

What OT scripture would he be referring to ? Im sure Isa 53 is one of them Isa 53:10-12

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The sins of His seed and or the many not all mankind, scripture never states that.

 

[zoidar]

Paul preached particular effectual atonement for his Gospel, using the scriptures for his guide 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

What OT scripture would he be referring to ? Im sure Isa 53 is one of them Isa 53:10-12

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The sins of His seed and or the many not all mankind, scripture never states that.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

The world sounds pretty inclusive to me.

 

[David Lamb]

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

The world sounds pretty inclusive to me.

Not all-inclusive, though. Atonement is limited to whoever believes in Jesus Christ, not every single person. We surely all believe that, whether we are followers of the Doctrines of Grace or not.

 

[Brightfame52]

Did Christ die for those represented in this world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

 

[Brightfame52]

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

The world sounds pretty inclusive to me.

Well its on you to prove that world in these verses means everyone without exception since it doesnt say that.

 

[Brightfame52]

Christs atoning death is limited to them He is and was a representative head for, now was that for all the entire world ? No it was not Eph 1:22-23

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[zoidar]

Not all-inclusive, though. Atonement is limited to whoever believes in Jesus Christ, not every single person. We surely all believe that, whether we are followers of the Doctrines of Grace or not.

The difference is you believe salvation is limited within the atonement of Christ, where I believe salvation is limited within the individual, not in the atonement.

 

[zoidar]

Did Christ die for those represented in this world Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Ok, so the word world in John 3:16 must be limited since Jesus only prays for his apostles in John 17:9?

 

[zoidar]

Well its on you to prove that world in these verses means everyone without exception since it doesnt say that.

Well, it does.

“For God so loved the world (whoever in the world, believer or unbeliever), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world (those in the world who don't believe - see John 12:47), but that the world (those in the world who believe) might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
— John 12:46-47

You see it makes no sense "world" in John 3:16 refers to only the elect, since "world" in John 3:17 refers to unbelievers.

 

[zoidar]

Christs atoning death is limited to them He is and was a representative head for, now was that for all the entire world ? No it was not Eph 1:22-23

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

I don't see those verses referring specifically to the atonement. Btw it says "all things" in v.22.

 

[Brightfame52]

Ok, so the word world in John 3:16 must be limited since Jesus only prays for his apostles in John 17:9?

Limited to only His elect

 

[Brightfame52]

Well, it does.

“For God so loved the world (whoever in the world, believer or unbeliever), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world (those in the world who don't believe - see John 12:47), but that the world (those in the world who believe) might be saved through Him.
— John 3:16-17

I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
— John 12:46-47

You see it makes no sense "world" in John 3:16 refers to only the elect, since "world" in John 3:17 refers to unbelievers.

You just gave yourself more scriptures to exegete, all you have proven thus far is you can pick out verses with the word world in them

 

[Brightfame52]

I don't see those verses referring to the atonement. Btw it says "all things" in v.22.

He is the Head and Saviour of His Body, not all mankind Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

 

[zoidar]

You just gave yourself more scriptures to exegete, all you have proven thus far is you can pick out verses with the word world in them

How can you translate John 3:16 to refer to the elect and still make sense of John 3:17? I would like you to show me that. The way I translate it is the only posibility, as far as I see it.

 

[zoidar]

He is the Head and Saviour of His Body, not all mankind Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Of course he is the savior of the body, believers. He is not savior of unbelievers... and everyone can become a believer, be part of the body.

 

[Brightfame52]

How can you translate John 3:16 to refer to the elect and still make sense of John 3:17? I would like you to show me that. The way I translate it is the only posibility, as far as I see it.

Anyone knows world in the bible has a diverse of meanings, so you need to prove the meaning you assume, like all mankind without exception. So exegete all your references to world please, thats your responsibility