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Newsome pushed back against Democracy to achieve his political goals

eclipsenow

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Did Texas vote in an independent council? Answer - no they did not. Is the Governor operating within his rights - yes he is.
Which is why American Democracy has been downgraded from a "FULL" democracy to "FLAWED" democracy by The Economist
 
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eclipsenow

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Because none of that actually addresses the points I made.



Where precisely did they create a mechanism for referendum?



The existence of the Senate may have been a compromise between large and small states, but if they wanted so badly for the people to have direct control over everything they would've just made it be directly elected by the whole state from the start. They didn't do that.

As for your claim of it becoming corrupt, accusations of corruption in the choosing of Senators appear to have been rather exaggerated, though they sure made good polemics by those who wanted reform. This is not to say the Senate did not run into some serious issues that required an adjustment to how it worked, however. Sometimes state legislatures would deadlock and be unable to choose a Senator. But it seems to me the biggest problem with the Senate is that it eventually turned state legislature races into proxy elections. Just as no one cares who the electors they vote for in a presidential election are so long as whoever they vote for will then vote for the person they want, people started not caring much about who they were voting for in a state congress race and caring far more about the identity of the Senator that person would vote for.

The 17th Amendment did fix those, but unfortunately created some new issues that weren't there before. You mention issues of corruption, but requiring people to campaign statewide probably made them far more beholden to special interests because you need serious cash to be able to reach everyone in a state (the smallest state is nearly 600K, and the largest nearly 40 million people!). There's also how it appears to have played a big role in changing the filibuster from something to make sure everyone got a chance to talk into a blunt cudgel used to prevent bills that had majority support in the Senate from advancing. There's a pretty good writeup here of the ideas behind the Senate, what worked with it, what ended up going wrong with it, and how while the 17th Amendment fixed some of those issues, it did create some new ones:

I think its points are pretty valid. (that said, I can't say I find the follow-up post detailing the author's suggestion on how to fix it particularly feasible)

Regardless, the indirect election of the Senate was a reflection of how the founders were against giving the people too much direct power in government. There's no shortage of quotes from them talking about the dangers of excess democracy, such as this one by John Adams (noted in the above link):

"Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes exhausts and murders itself. There never was a Democracy Yet, that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to Say that Democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious or less avaricious than Aristocracy or Monarchy. It is not true in Fact and no where appears in history. Those Passions are the same in all Men under all forms of Simple Government, and when unchecked, produce the same Effects of Fraud Violence and Cruelty."

This is why they set up things like checks and balances and the indirectly elected Senate and how the President was (supposed to) not be directly elected. He then uses the government France set up after the French Revolution as an example of excell of democracy gone bad:

"What can I Say of The Democracy of France? I dare not write what I think and what I know. Were Brissot, Condorcet, Danton Robespiere and Monsiegnieur Equality less ambitious than Cæsar, Alexander or Napoleon? Were Dumourier, Pichegru, Moreau, less Generals, less Conquerors, or in the End less fortunate than <him> he was.?"

Now, some people obnoxiously pull out quotes like this to try to win push pedantic claims like "the United States isn't a democracy", which is dumb because the word has expanded in meaning since then and is used to refer to countries like the United States. Regardless, it's still pretty clear that the founding fathers were not particularly big fans of the idea of giving the general public direct and complete power over the government and certainly not that referendums were good ideas (as easily shown by the fact the constitution doesn't give it as an option). Maybe you think they were wrong. Maybe they were. But it's pretty clear their ideas of self-governance did not include or even come close to granting the people the ability to pass laws directly by popular vote.

Interesting. I think most Australian political thinkers say Australia is a "Representative Democracy". There are a few different perspectives within that that might conflict. I forget the exact terms - but there are debates about how much freedom a Representative politician is meant to have in Representing his electorate. EG: Do they mainly Represent the 'standard' policy of their party? Or do they have the freedom - if convinced by good argument against that party line - to pursue other policies?

EG: Imagine a REPUBLICAN discovering about standard OECD healthcare offering universal cover at half the price. Imagine they start to promote the idea of NATIONALISING half America's hospitals to be government owned and operated? (Yeah - just imagine that? One may as well imagine pink unicorns vomiting rainbow oil into all your cars so the country smells like cinnamon doughnuts!)

Are they performing "Representative Democracy"?

Back in the day - I remember Jed Bartlett on The West Wing saying "America isn't a Democracy, it's a Republic."
At the time I was taken aback - but I can see the place for saying that in broadening our understanding of the phrase "Representative Democracy".
 
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Bradskii

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Interesting. I think most Australian political thinkers say Australia is a "Representative Democracy". There are a few different perspectives within that that might conflict. I forget the exact terms - but there are debates about how much freedom a Representative politician is meant to have in Representing his electorate. EG: Do they mainly Represent the 'standard' policy of their party? Or do they have the freedom - if convinced by good argument against that party line - to pursue other policies?
Tricky question. But we can ask it a different way. When you vote for your local MP, do you vote for how that person can benefit you and your locality? Or are you voting for the party you want to see in government.

If I vote in the local council elections I want someone to represent what I want. If I vote in state elections I vote for a combination of what I'd like and what's best for NSW. When it comes to federal elections I vote what I think is best for the country. And at times, in some areas of policy, that will have a negative impact on me.

I wanted Labor to win because I thought they'd do best for the country. But I didn't vote for them last time out because in my electorate (Wentworth) it was more of a two horse race between the Liberal and an independent. So I voted for the independent to try to keep the Liberal out. Simply because I thought their policies were nonsensical (nuclear power, for example).

I remember when Peter Garrett (of Midnight Oil fame) ran for Labor a few years back (against my son in law as it turns out, who was part of a failed attempt to get the Democrats up and running again). He was asked about some of the policies that Labor had at the time with which he disagreed. He felt he had to 'toe the line' (his words), bat for the team. and support those policies. Else become an independent. And he thought he'd have more influence as a Labor MP.
 
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Do most States in the USA have 2 houses for State legislation? (Not all Australian States do.)

Yes. I believe Nebraska is the only exception, with only one house (it was bicameral originally, but was changed to unicamera in 1934).

If so - is not the Upper House / Senate usually Proportional Representation (PR) of the entire state already?

Zero states use proportional representation right now as far as I am aware.

What would be the benefit in having 2 legislative assembly bodies like this?
That's actually a good question I'm surprised I never thought about before. Why do almost all the states have bicameral legislatures?

With the federal government, the reasons are fairly obvious. The primary reason for splitting the Senate and House on the federal level, aside from obvious inspiration from the House of Lords/House of Commons setup Britain had, were:

1) A compromise between large states who wanted the congress to be population-based, and small states who wanted equal representation.

2) By having the House and Senate elected in a different manner (Senators were not elected directly by the people, but were chosen by the state legislature) you'd end up with a different kind of congressman in the Senate than the more populist House. This one is no longer applicable after it was changed in 1913 so Senators are elected by a statewide popular vote, but it is part of the original design.

3) While the House would be immediately receptive to changing opinions of voters, as all of it was up for election every two years, only 1/3 of the Senate could change every two years, creating greater stability and weathering shifts in opinion that ended up being fleeting.

But for state legislatures? #1 is irrelevant within states for obvious reasons, and #2 is irrelevant because I believe all chambers in all states are done by the same voting system (I think some states originally had them chosen in a different fashion, but that's not the case anymore), though someone can correct me on that. I believe #3 still holds, as it looks to me like upper houses of states normally have only half of their seats up for election every two years, compared to all the seats in the lower house... but I'm not sure that's enough by itself to explain a bicameral system.

Honestly, it might all boil down to "it's the way we've always done it" or "it's the way everyone else does it" as the basic reason for it being the case in states.
 
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eclipsenow

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Yes. I believe Nebraska is the only exception, with only one house (it was bicameral originally, but was changed to unicamera in 1934).

Zero states use proportional representation right now as far as I am aware.
Oh of course! Sorry - I've had health issues this month resulting in insomnia.

My primitive brain interpreted "Proportional Representation" as "NOT voting at the district level - the other one!" D'uh! Both can still be different versions of 'winner takes all'. Just because Australia has PR at the Senate level - does not mean all countries have it.

But of course PR has multiple representation that mathematically represents the outcomes - not like 'winner takes all' systems. I have trouble visualising how it would work at the district level. We have PR at the Federal Senate level where members are selected from across the whole State. Unless we were prepared to pay for far more politician's salaries - for more representation - surely those local districts would need to be much larger?

As ChatGPT sums up our Australian Senate: "Senators are elected by a single-transferable-vote (STV) form of PR (multi-member state/territory electorates). The House of Representatives is not proportional — it uses single-member seats with preferential (instant-runoff) voting."

We use quotas. The AEC says:
"To be elected to the Senate, a candidate needs to gain a quota of the formal votes. The quota is calculated by dividing the total number of formal ballot papers by the number of senators to be elected plus one, and then adding one to the result (ignoring any remainder).

Formula for determining a Senate quota​

(Number of formal ballot papers / (Number of senators to be elected + 1)) rounded down + 1 = Senate quota

Example of determining a Senate quota​

This is how the quota for NSW was calculated at the 2013 Senate election.
(4 376 143 / (6 + 1)) + 1 = 625 164
Therefore the quota, or number of votes required to be elected, in NSW at the 2013 federal election was 625 164.



SIDE EFFECT of PR at the STATE LEVEL IF YOU USE PREFERENCES

Where France has multiple elections to decide their preferences, we do it all in the one vote. Basically, "If I can't have the (minority) Greens, which I put first - I'll have Labor, then 3rd option, then 4th option, etc." The PRIMARY votes are counted, and if the Greens don't get in, the Greens pile gets picked up and sorted into the other parties by preference.

But weird things can happen. Some protest voters put both the major parties down near the last. We've had just a few occasions where the preferences flowed and elected people with only a TINY fraction of the overall vote! The weirdest outcome? The 2014 Australian Motorist Enthusiast Party elected Ricky Muir with a record-low primary vote of 0.51 percent or 17,122 first preferences! But once the secondary, third, and fourth preferences were divided up - he got in.

Generally, I prefer our system to the Gerrymandering and other practices in America. If the occasional aberration like this is the cost of doing business our way - I'll pay it! ;)
That's actually a good question I'm surprised I never thought about before. Why do almost all the states have bicameral legislatures?

With the federal government, the reasons are fairly obvious. The primary reason for splitting the Senate and House on the federal level, aside from obvious inspiration from the House of Lords/House of Commons setup Britain had, were:

1) A compromise between large states who wanted the congress to be population-based, and small states who wanted equal representation.
Yes.
2) By having the House and Senate elected in a different manner (Senators were not elected directly by the people, but were chosen by the state legislature) you'd end up with a different kind of congressman in the Senate than the more populist House. This one is no longer applicable after it was changed in 1913 so Senators are elected by a statewide popular vote, but it is part of the original design.
Side topic: The House selecting the Senate sounds very much like today's EU. I really hope they Federate into a new Super-Power called "Europe" and can tidy up that system - as it's weird and fragile as it stands. I do NOT want it to splinter and leave us prone to more European wars - nor do I want it to suffer more Brexits!
3) While the House would be immediately receptive to changing opinions of voters, as all of it was up for election every two years, only 1/3 of the Senate could change every two years, creating greater stability and weathering shifts in opinion that ended up being fleeting.
Yes - having 2 systems run like this with different timings means there would be some overlapping stability. There's a smallish movement in Australia that wants to Abolish our Federation (get rid of the State Governments) and move to a National unitary legislative government that makes ALL laws and collects taxes, and Local Governments (like larger municipalities) that receive the tax money on a per capita basis and provide services. We could save SO much money in running our excessive State governments that have our mere 27 million population completely over-governed!

To get to the point: one proposal had about 50 regional Local governments, with only ONE Local district having an election every month across something like a 4 year cycle!

Just imagine the implications? (I can't remember if this was Senate or Lower house.)
But for state legislatures? #1 is irrelevant within states for obvious reasons, and #2 is irrelevant because I believe all chambers in all states are done by the same voting system (I think some states originally had them chosen in a different fashion, but that's not the case anymore), though someone can correct me on that. I believe #3 still holds, as it looks to me like upper houses of states normally have only half of their seats up for election every two years, compared to all the seats in the lower house... but I'm not sure that's enough by itself to explain a bicameral system.

Honestly, it might all boil down to "it's the way we've always done it" or "it's the way everyone else does it" as the basic reason for it being the case in states.
Sure! A certain moment in history gets to decide these things - and unless a REALLY generous constitutional reformation process was put in place - it's just gonna stay that way!

Australia's constitution needs a radical overhaul in some areas, but the reform process itself is utterly constipated. Citizen petitions cannot trigger a constitutional reform - only political parties - and they tend to ask the wrong questions at the wrong time. We've only had under a quarter of referendums answer YES.

Where as some European nations have a BUILT IN system where once a decade, a citizen's panel is selected (a bit like a jury) and they'll have a long chat, and then go to the nation about any issues of the day that might need a referendum!
 
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You just keep repeating the assertion that everything I say is "leftist tripe" etc - but you have not replied to show what mechanisms are going to prevent your country collapsing into a Dictatorship.
Yes everything you said is leftist tripe.

Out country is not sliding into a dictatorship. That's leftist tripe.
You're replying with a "Left" vs "Right" mindset - the Pork vs Beef sausages. The policy outcomes you hate from Obama, and the wonderful policies that angel Trump has enacted to kick start a new "Golden Age" in America.
Yes Obama was the great divider and his leftist policies were bad for America. I dont agree with all of Trump's policies. Most of his policies have been good, but not all. In fact some may actually be counter productive to rhe whole agenda. But we'll have to wait and see.
Do you WANT to live in an autocracy?
Of course not. We aren't going to. Newsome wants to rig stuff more than its already rigged in California.
 
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eclipsenow

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Yes everything you said is leftist tripe.

Out country is not sliding into a dictatorship. That's leftist tripe.

Yes Obama was the great divider and his leftist policies were bad for America. I dont agree with all of Trump's policies. Most of his policies have been good, but not all. In fact some may actually be counter productive to rhe whole agenda. But we'll have to wait and see.

Of course not. We aren't going to. Newsome wants to rig stuff more than its already rigged in California.
I note there is STILL no evidence about what is happening to fight these trends? But then again - I need to moderate my expectations from you given you're MAGA and call all the evidence to the contrary "leftist tripe".

As an Australian concerned for the fate of the world should America get a bit 1930's Germany, I should not expect someone who probably endorsed everything in Project 2025 as "Democracy" to have any concerns in the first place. You of course LOVE all those extra powers the President is taking upon himself! Tariffs - when Congress used to do that. Kicking out ordinary public servants - just because they have not sworn an oath to Trump. Illegal quid-pro-quo deals to get Mayors out of trouble as long as they swear allegiance to 'the cause'. Refusing to hand over the Epstein files when it was a major campaign promise to 'drain the swamp'.

Little by little nibbling away at the rule of law.
When does the showdown over tariffs kick off?
THAT will be interesting! We'll see what kind of tantrums Trump 'truths' about.
(And I'm using that term with the utmost irony.)

No problem at ALL while it's Trump doing these things.​

That is - until Newsom or Kamala get the same powers!​

Then it will be the end of the world! A conspiracy! The end of democracy! :oldthumbsup: :oldthumbsup: :doh: :doh:

 
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Pommer

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Do most States in the USA have 2 houses for State legislation? (Not all Australian States do.)
If so - is not the Upper House / Senate usually Proportional Representation (PR) of the entire state already?
What would be the benefit in having 2 legislative assembly bodies like this?

I thought one idea behind a "lower house" (Legislative Assembly in Aussie States) was that it was meant to be made up of voices representing local districts.

Then, because that process itself is so controversial, it was moderated by an Upper House (Senate) which was based on PR?

That's 2 ways of expressing and cross-checking the will of the people. (A few of our States do not have 2 houses though.)
Part of the gerrymandering problem is the fact that the United States (for whatever reason(s)), fixed the number of representatives in the house at 435. This was originally done over a century ago, and set in stone in 1929, when the population was a mere 121,000,000.

If we (again) tied a representative’s seat to a fixed number of constituents the House would likely swell to a few thousand and most of the gerrymandering problem would melt away.

This isn’t likely to happen unless the salaries & perks of the job were severely reduced…by the very people who would need to vote to make it so.

Still, a boy can dream!
 
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rjs330

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I know SCOTUS has ruled that gerrymandering is okay, but I never have liked it myself.

But i dont know how exactly how to fix that. There has to be a way to create equitable districts in a state where everyone can have a say. Places where democrats and republicans can have a representative for them. I just dont know how to do that without gerrymandering to some extent.
 
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eclipsenow

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But i dont know how exactly how to fix that. There has to be a way to create equitable districts in a state where everyone can have a say. Places where democrats and republicans can have a representative for them. I just dont know how to do that without gerrymandering to some extent.
It will never happen because - like here in Australia with one of our biggest faults - the Constitutional Reform process itself needs Reform. We're stuck in prejudices and norms of over a century ago, you guys 3 centuries ago!

But - if Americans REALLY demanded it and went through enormous upheaval to have a Constitutional Reform - you could modernise your democracy by:-
Abandoning the College system.
Adopting Proportional Representation - with all the shakeup that would involve.
Holding elections on a Saturday.
Allowing Citizen petitions for referendums - over a certain % gets a referendum.
Holding once a decade citizen juries to talk through a subject to take to the nation on referendum.

Those last 2 are especially important, as they consult the will of the people - and encourage enormous debate and fresh perspectives - on the very Operating System of the country itself!

You never know. Citizens might have the latest data from the social sciences and decide to end the war on drugs, radically curb firearms for individuals (and allow them to be locked up at the local militia headquarters overnight as I read the Second Amendment), and maybe demand that the Feds buy 70% of your hospitals and own and operate them on behalf of ALL Americans.

Those 3 would transform America, and make her healthy, wealthy and wise.
 
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JSRG

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As an Australian concerned for the fate of the world should America get a bit 1930's Germany, I should not expect someone who probably endorsed everything in Project 2025 as "Democracy" to have any concerns in the first place.

Ah, Project 2025, the boogeyman of Democrats. A document so awful that... they have to actually make up stuff about it to attack it.

Now, I sure haven't read much of the thing; it's obscenely long. Maybe there's some absolutely horrible stuff in it. But I can't help but notice that people make all kinds of claims about it that... aren't true. Now, if Project 2025 was so awful and so extreme, why don't people actually point to the horrible and extreme things in it instead of making stuff up about it?

At the Democratic National Convention, they had comedian Keenan Thompson do a presentation about how bad it was... except as is well explained in this article, the stuff he presented was mostly misrepresented:

So I'm left again with the question: If it's so awful, where is the awfulness? Yeah, there's a whole lot of stuff there that a liberal or Democrat would object to, given it's bunch of policy suggestions by conservatives, but the dramatic claims people make just don't seem to hold up.

Of course, now you have liberals or Democrats make up big lists of stuff that is in Project 2025 that Trump is doing to prove that Trump was totally into it despite him saying he wasn't... except now they're (much more commonly) talking about the stuff that's actually in it, rather than the exaggerations made formerly. More importantly, a Republican president is always going to have some crossover with the suggestions of other Republicans. As was well pointed out here (same author as above):

This gives us a fairly simple heuristic you can use to see whether it’s even plausible that Trump got one of his ideas from Project 2025:
  1. Did he do it in his last term, before Project 2025 existed? If yes, then it obviously didn’t come from Project 2025.
  2. Did he actively campaign on it in 2024, the same campaign where he repudiated Project 2025? If yes, then it obviously wasn’t a secret he foisted on an unsuspecting public, and he probably didn’t get the idea from Project 2025 at all!
When you go through the 37 executive orders Politico cites as “evidence” that Trump was lying on the campaign trail, this simple heuristic eliminates 35 of them.

What's funny is--and this is also noted in the article--it looks to me like the things people complain the most about Trump's actions (including the ones you go on to complain about) are things that aren't even in Project 2025, or that Project 2025 suggested a far more measured version of.
 
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JSRG

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Part of the gerrymandering problem is the fact that the United States (for whatever reason(s)), fixed the number of representatives in the house at 435. This was originally done over a century ago, and set in stone in 1929, when the population was a mere 121,000,000.

If we (again) tied a representative’s seat to a fixed number of constituents the House would likely swell to a few thousand and most of the gerrymandering problem would melt away.

I'm not so sure it would go away.

Let's suppose we were to increase it to 3,000 (you suggest a few thousand). The US population is about 300 million, so that's 1 per 100,000 people. Now let's consider North Carolina. It has a population of 11 million, and its lower house has 120 people. That gives about 90,000 people per representative, which is less than that... which hasn't stopped it from being one of the most gerrymandered states in the country.

The most guaranteed way to end gerrymandering would be to enact proportional representation, at least partially. Obviously, fully proportional representation would instantly end it, but that brings in its own problems (I think there's strong benefits to having geographic-based representation), so it's better to have a legislature be partially proportional and partially district-based. While this leaves gerrymandering as a possibility, it's much harder because if one party tries to gerrymander, voters can just vote for other parties in the proportional part of the vote to kick that party out, and the new ones can change the maps. However, to manage this, you'd need an increase in the house. Which brings us to the next point.

This isn’t likely to happen unless the salaries & perks of the job were severely reduced…by the very people who would need to vote to make it so.

Still, a boy can dream!
It's unlikely salaries or perks would need to be reduced. The increased amount of money would be a drop in the bucket compared to US federal spending.

Members of the House of Representatives get $174,000 each year. You suggested a few thousand, but let's go extreme and go for ten thousand (the original goal, back when the country had a much smaller population, was to have 30,000 people per representative, and with a population of about 300 million, you'd need to go that high to match that). That many people would be $1.7 billion per year, and of course there's presumably other expenses to factor in. I'm not sure how much those other expenses would make it, but but let's double it and suppose we're talking $3.4 billion. That is, to be fair, a lot of money. However, the United States government spent $6.8 trillion last year. This means the payment of a House of Representatives with ten thousand people would be about 0.05% of the money the US government spent last year (1/2000th). That's a fairly small percentage.

And that's of course a crazy 10,000 members, which, while having some potential benefits, seems like it could easily lead to a lot of logistical issues (one would have to, at least, build an all new House of Representatives building). A more modest increase to a few thousand, as you suggest, would be less. Supposedly, the House of Representatives building can hold about 1750 people... or, at least, that's what I saw someone say and link to this article, but it's paywalled so I can't verify it. If that is true, it could at least be increased to that (or, if someone wants a more even number, increased to an even 1500). At the very least I see no reason why it can't be increased to 800, which would actually still be less than the House of Lords in the United Kingdom (828), which is the largest chamber of any legislature in the world if you don't count China's largely for-show legislature.
 
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eclipsenow

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Ah, Project 2025, the boogeyman of Democrats.
I guess that's why so many former Republican Trump staffer's are speaking out against it?

I guess that's why Australia's ABC’s flagship current affairs program “4 Corners” ran a special on Project 2025?
It's all those Democrats! Riiiiiiight.

ABC then shared the full interview with the former CIA director.

”Leon Panetta says countries are governed either by leadership or by crisis. He tells Four Corners that democracy would be threatened if Trump was to be re-elected as President of the United States and says, ‘it was bad enough the first time’. Panetta speaks about what he sees as Trump’s disregard for intelligence, focus on power, desire to mobilise the military and what that would mean for the United States. In this interview, Panetta shares his fears about America’s future and exposes the troubles of the first Trump administration.”

Panetta said:-
* Trump did not really take any interest in intelligence briefings. (I'm guessing that's Trump's NPD kicking in - HE wants to be the one that speaks - and cannot admit he needs to learn anything!)
* Without an adequate appreciation of intelligence - does America even have a Commander in Chief?
* His threatening NATO weakens the western world.
* Trump should not be let near a political party - let alone be a Candidate for the White House.

And we have seen all this come to pass!

Also alarming - Erica Newland served as an attorney at the Department of Justice under Donald Trump.

I was quite stunned that Trump was returned to office.


A document so awful that... they have to actually make up stuff about it to attack it.

Some probably did. But it's not just the document - but the new relationships described both in - and in the creation of - this document.
Now, I sure haven't read much of the thing; it's obscenely long.

You're not wrong there! Project 2025 is 920 pages, and even Mein Kampf was only 720 pages long.
Maybe there's some absolutely horrible stuff in it.

Watch the 4 Corners and the 2 interviews above. Snopes summarised a few key points I'm concerned about:-

  • Changing how the FBI operates. According to the plan, the agency is "completely out of control," and the next conservative administration should restore its reputation by stopping investigations that are supposedly "unlawful or contrary to the national interest." Also, the document calls for legislation that would eliminate term limits for the FBI's director and require that person to answer to the president.
And now there's a "Big Lie Believer" and conspiracy theorist Kash Patel in charge.

  • Eliminating the Department of Education. The plan explicitly proposes, "Federal education policy should be limited and, ultimately, the federal Department of Education should be eliminated." The report also calls for bans on so-called "critical race theory" (CRT) and "gender ideology" lessons in public schools, asking for legislation that would require educators who share such material to register as sex offenders and be imprisoned.
One may as well say "Thought crime".
  • Reversing Biden-era policies attempting to reduce climate change. The document's authors call for increasing the country's reliance on fossil fuels and withdrawing from efforts to address the climate crisis — such as "offices, programs, and directives designed to advance the Paris Climate Agreement."
This one is less about backsliding on democratic integrity, and more about a policy outcome I really care about. But hey - if America wants to kneecap itself economically - well - that's history now.
  • Stopping cybersecurity efforts to combat mis- and disinformation. The document recommends the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency to stop its efforts to curtail online propaganda campaigns, arguing the federal government should not make judgment calls on what's true and what isn't.
Because that kind of thing is inconvenient when Trump wants to push his narcissistic "Big Lie".
  • Changing immigration policies. Authors want the federal government to deprioritize DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), the program that temporarily delays the deportation of immigrants without documentation who came to the U.S. as children; phase out temporary work-visa programs that allow seasonal employers to hire foreign workers; impose financial punishments on so-called "sanctuary cities" that do not follow federal immigration laws, and divert tax dollars toward security at America's border with Mexico. (While the Biden campaign claims Project 2025 calls for "ripping mothers away from their children" at the border, there's no explicit mention of separating families. Rather, it calls for stronger enforcement of laws governing the detainment of immigrants with criminal records and restricting an existing program that tracks people in deportation proceedings instead of incarcerating them. In some cases, those changes could possibly play a role in border control agents detaining a parent while their child continues with immigration proceedings.)
And by handing it over to private corporations on a profit-per-detainee model - people with minor paper work glitches (NOT illegal immigrants) on friendly business trips from Canada are being detained for up to 2 weeks!
  • Reversing protections against discrimination in housing. The Biden campaign emails reference a portion of the document that calls for repealing a decades-old policy—strengthened under Biden—that attempts to prevent discrimination and reduce racial disparities in housing. Project 2025 also recommends making it easier to sell off homes used for public housing — a benefit to real estate developers — but result in fewer cheap housing options for poor and low-income families. The Facts About Project 2025: The Pro-Trump Proposal To 'Reshape America'
But watch the 4 Corners pieces. This was just Snopes.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Having more Democratic control in the State doesn't seem to be a good thing for Californian businesses

Example:

MURRAY, Utah--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Beyond, Inc. (NYSE:BYON) has issued the following statement from Marcus Lemonis, Executive Chairman of Bed Bath & Beyond:​
We will not open or operate retail stores in California.​
This decision isn’t about politics — it’s about reality. California has created one of the most overregulated, expensive, and risky environments for businesses in America. It’s a system that makes it harder to employ people, harder to keep doors open, and harder to deliver value to customers.
The result? Higher taxes, higher fees, higher wages that many businesses simply cannot sustain, and endless regulations that strangle growth. Even when the state announces a budget surplus, it’s built on the backs of ordinary citizens who are paying too much and businesses who are squeezed until they break.
At Bed Bath & Beyond, our responsibility is to our customers and our shareholders. We will not participate in a system that undermines both. Instead, we are investing in a California strategy that works: 24–48-hour delivery, and in many cases, same-day service. Californians will continue to get the products they love through BedBathandBeyond.com — but without the inflated costs created by an unsustainable model.​
We’re taking a stand because it’s time for common sense. Businesses deserve the chance to succeed. Employees deserve jobs that last. And customers deserve fair prices. California’s system delivers the opposite. That’s why Bed Bath & Beyond will serve California customers directly through BedBathandBeyond.com, on our terms, and with their best interests at heart.​
— Marcus Lemonis
Executive Chairman, Bed Bath & Beyond​
 
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And it is not just Republicans speaking out about his push:

Below are statements from various sources explicitly opposing California Governor Gavin Newsom’s bid to gerrymander congressional districts, as outlined in the provided references. These statements reflect criticism from political figures, organizations, and commentators who argue against Newsom’s proposal to redraw California’s congressional maps in response to Republican-led redistricting efforts in Texas.


  1. Assembly member Alex Lee, Head of the State Legislature’s Progressive Caucus: “Trying to save democracy by destroying democracy is dangerous and foolish. By legitimizing the race to the bottom of gerrymandering, Democrats will ultimately lose.”
  2. Anonymous Democratic Political Consultant: “The idea of taking away the power from the citizens and giving it back to the politicians — the optics of that is horrendous and indefensible.
  3. Former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger: “I hate the idea of the Republicans redrawing the district lines in Texas, as much as I hate what the Californians are trying to do. We are not going to go into a stinking contest with a skunk. We are moving forward.” Schwarzenegger’s chief of staff, Daniel Ketchell, added: “His position is that two wrongs don’t make a right. He is still committed to independent redistricting in every state around the country. He thinks we have to get rid of gerrymandering to get rid of gridlock and have politicians who actually care about what the people think.”
  4. California Republican Party Chair Corrin Rankin: “Now, Newsom wants to take that power back, rush through secret maps, and spend hundreds of millions so he and his friends can choose their voters instead of voters choosing their representatives. He calls it transparent and temporary but it is really a calculated power grab that dismantles the very safeguards voters put in place.”
  5. Assemblymember Tom Lackey: “No matter what the justification is, why would we engage in behavior that is considered unacceptable by those who elected us?”
  6. Assemblymember Alexandra Macedo: “We will defeat this, if it’s not here in the Capitol, it will be in a courtroom or it will be at the ballot box.”
  7. Assemblyman Carl DeMaio: “The public cannot have a voice if they do not know what’s going on. What Governor Newsom and the legislators are trying to do is prevent the public from knowing what’s going on before it’s too late.”
  8. California Assembly Republican Leader James Gallagher: “We’re going to do everything we can to stop this Gavinmander from moving forward.”
  9. National Republican Congressional Committee Spokesperson Christian Martinez: “Gavin Newsom’s latest stunt has nothing to do with Californians and everything to do with consolidating radical Democrat power. [It’s] a pathetic 2028 presidential pipe dream.”
  10. Charles Munger Jr., Donor and Architect of California’s Independent Redistricting Commission: “Any attempt to undermine the nonpartisan California Redistricting Commission will be strongly opposed in the courts and at the ballot box.” Munger’s Protect Voters First campaign included messaging arguing that gerrymandering “suppresses minority thought, and racially discriminates against Black, brown, and other politically underrepresented neighborhoods.”
  11. Russell Yee, Republican Member of California’s 2020 Redistricting Commission: “While he understood Newsom’s frustration, the only solution is redistricting reform at the federal level.”
  12. Senator Shannon Strickland: “Governor Newsom, this is nothing more than a power grab. The Golden Gate Bridge toll was supposed to be temporary. You’re still paying the toll.”

These statements highlight opposition from both Republicans and some Democrats, focusing on concerns about undermining California’s independent redistricting commission, the risk of escalating a partisan gerrymandering war, and the perceived threat to democratic principles. Critics argue that Newsom’s plan contradicts the voter-approved nonpartisan redistricting process established in 2008 and 2010, and some see it as a politically motivated move tied to his potential 2028 presidential ambitions.
 
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Having more Democratic control in the State doesn't seem to be a good thing for Californian businesses

Example:
Is that why BBY closed *all* of their stores? California regulation?
 
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Is that why BBY closed *all* of their stores? California regulation?
From their CEO. His own words:

This decision isn’t about politics — it’s about reality. California has created one of the most overregulated, expensive, and risky environments for businesses in America. It’s a system that makes it harder to employ people, harder to keep doors open, and harder to deliver value to customers.
The result? Higher taxes, higher fees, higher wages that many businesses simply cannot sustain, and endless regulations that strangle growth. Even when the state announces a budget surplus, it’s built on the backs of ordinary citizens who are paying too much and businesses who are squeezed until they break.


It was in the link
 
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From their CEO. His own words:

This decision isn’t about politics — it’s about reality. California has created one of the most overregulated, expensive, and risky environments for businesses in America. It’s a system that makes it harder to employ people, harder to keep doors open, and harder to deliver value to customers.
The result? Higher taxes, higher fees, higher wages that many businesses simply cannot sustain, and endless regulations that strangle growth. Even when the state announces a budget surplus, it’s built on the backs of ordinary citizens who are paying too much and businesses who are squeezed until they break.


It was in the link
The protestations of a company with no retail outlets that they won't open a retail store in a particular jursdiction for [reasons] are meaningless. I also refuse to open a retail store in California, but I don't even have a business, so why would anyone care?
 
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The protestations of a company with no retail outlets that they won't open a retail store in a particular jursdiction for [reasons] are meaningless. I also refuse to open a retail store in California, but I don't even have a business, so why would anyone care?
Even though the brand is making a comeback with plans to open 300 new stores across the U.S., it has explicitly stated it will not reopen any in California. The company’s executive chairman called California “too costly and overregulated” for profitable operations. So for now, California residents can only shop from Bed Bath & Beyond online.​
yeah, who cares - they had 90 stores at one point, are planning on opening 300 - just not in California.​
Nothing to see here.​
oh, wait...​
Is anyone else doing the same? Let's look​
mac.JPG
and why are they?​
Why the Pullback?
• High real estate and labor costs
• Strict environmental and labor regulations
• Shift to online shopping and remote work
• Gen Z’s preference for social media-driven purchases
This isn’t just about retail—it’s part of a broader trend of companies rethinking their physical footprint in California
 
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Even though the brand is making a comeback with plans to open 300 new stores across the U.S., it has explicitly stated it will not reopen any in California. The company’s executive chairman called California “too costly and overregulated” for profitable operations. So for now, California residents can only shop from Bed Bath & Beyond online.​

yeah, who cares - they had 90 stores at one point, are planning on opening 300 - just not in California.​
We'll see if that happens. It would be a pale shadow of what they once were.
Nothing to see here.​
oh, wait...​
Is anyone else doing the same? Let's look​
and why are they?​
The only retailer opening fewer or closing preferentially in California is BBB. The rest of your table describes closing stores in Cali and elsewhere or moving HQ to another state.
Why the Pullback?
• High real estate and labor costs
Which is why prices tend to be higher in Cali, right?
• Strict environmental and labor regulations
Are they going to be developing stores in protected environments, or are they going to build/lease them in existing "big box" shopping centers or malls?
• Shift to online shopping and remote work
• Gen Z’s preference for social media-driven purchases
A trend that Cali seems to be further along than other states as has been the case for (checks watch...) nearly 3 decades.
This isn’t just about retail—it’s part of a broader trend of companies rethinking their physical footprint in California
And what has this to do with your claim that the redistricting is anti-democratic?
 
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