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ViaCrucis

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I know many Christians are hesitant to connect "following Jesus" with what's often called "social justice". But I believe there's compelling biblical support - even in passages like Micah 6:8 - that following Jesus compels us to pursue justice, including in societal forms.

What do you think - does Scripture call us to systemic justice, or is the focus primarily on individual devotion?

I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially after watching this video:

It's not even a question. Social justice is simply part of what Christianity is.
It requires a radical redefinition of Christianity to get something else.

I'm a Lutheran. Dr. Luther once said that the Christian lives by faith in Christ and by love of neighbor. These two things comprise the entire Christian existence. We can't have one without the other.

St. James tells us that faith without works is dead.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Clare73

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It's not even a question. Social justice is simply part of what Christianity is.
It requires a radical redefinition of Christianity to get something else.

I'm a Lutheran. Dr. Luther once said that the Christian lives by faith in Christ and by love of neighbor. These two things comprise the entire Christian existence. We can't have one without the other.

St. James tells us that faith without works is dead.

-CryptoLutheran
"Social," "environmental," "climate," etc. justice is a function of the populace.

Justice is the function of government.
 
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FreeinChrist

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"Social," "environmental," "climate," etc. justice is a function of the populace.

Justice is the function of government.
Not really. It is something each person should do.

Check out Micah 6:8
Mic 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

As a person of God, we are required to be just and love mercy. That would include responding when we see inequities, and mistreatment.
 
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Larniavc

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God does not always agree
A main reason why a lot of people in society are no longer practicing Christian religionists.
 
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Larniavc

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I'm a Lutheran. Dr. Luther once said that the Christian lives by faith in Christ and by love of neighbor.
If there is one thing this site has shown me it is that only faith in Christ is important. Being decent to other people is purely optional.
 
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FreeinChrist

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If there is one thing this site has shown me it is that only faith in Christ is important. Being decent to other people is purely optional.
It is unfortunate if that is the impression you got.
True faith is shown in the fruit people show, and how they act.

Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

That kindness and goodness would be shown in how we treat other people and if we care about their circumstances and if we treat them fairly.
Seems to be a challenge these days.
 
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Larniavc

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That kindness and goodness would be shown in how we treat other people and if we care about their circumstances and if we treat them fairly.
Agreed. A good person is what you do not what you are.
 
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ViaCrucis

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"Social," "environmental," "climate," etc. justice is a function of the populace.

Justice is the function of government.

Another word for Justice is Righteousness.

There are two kinds of righteousness: Righteousness Coram Deo, that's the imputed righteousness which justifies; and Righteous Coram Mundus, that's the righteousness extended toward others.

The Christian is called to exhibit Righteousness, to live righteously. To live a godly life. That life is a life lived in our vocations toward our neighbors.

Do you disagree with this?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Clare73

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Another word for Justice is Righteousness.
Justice = dike, what is right, just; execution of a sentence, punishment, vegeance (2 Th 1:9, Jude 7, Ac 28:4)

Righteousness = dikaioslune, diakaioma, character or quality of being right or just (Ro 3:25, 26, Mt 5:6, Mt 3:15, 6:1, 33)
There are two kinds of righteousness: Righteousness Coram Deo, that's the imputed righteousness which justifies; and Righteous Coram Mundus, that's the righteousness extended toward others.
The Christian is called to exhibit Righteousness, to live righteously. To live a godly life. That life is a life lived in our vocations toward our neighbors.
Do you disagree with this?
Probably, just without all the Latin.

The imputed righteousness (dikaiosis) is the righteousness of Christ reckoned through faith to the born again, as a result of justification (sentence of acquittal, pronouncement of sinlessness, by remittal of sin, through faith in the person and atoning work of Christ).

The rIghteousness extended (dikaiosune) is our right action.
 
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Freth

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Google defines...
  • Social justice as justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society.
    • Distribution as the action of sharing something out among a number of recipients.
      • Wealth as an abundance of valuable possessions or money.
      • Opportunity as a set of circumstances that make it possible to do something.
      • Privilege as a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.
      • Society as the aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.

Social justice is not justice at all if it is unjust to take money from someone and give it to someone else, and it is unjust for some to have privilege and others not.

Notice what Jesus said to the rich young ruler.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Jesus didn't say, "Social justice! Strip him of his title and give it to someone else! Take all of his possessions and redistribute them!" He left it in the hands of the rich young ruler to do right by his fellow man by choice, not by force.

By the way, forcibly taking something from someone to give to someone else is theft.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Justice = dike, what is right; execution of a sentence, punishment, vegeance (2 Th 1:9, Jude 7, Ac 28:4)

Righteousness = dikaioslune, diakaioma, character or quality of being right or just (Ro 3:25, 26, Mt 5:6, Mt 3:15, 6:1, 33)

Probably, just without all the Latin.

The imputed righteousness (dikaiosis) is the righteousness of Christ reckoned through faith to the born again, as a result of justification (sentence of acquittal, pronouncement of sinlessness, by remittal of sin, through faith in the person and atoning work of Christ).

The rIghteousness extended (dikaiosune) is our right action.

The difference between justice and righteousness is semantics.

Righteousness is a Germanic-based word; Justice is a Latin-based word.

There's no distinction between the two in Hebrew and Greek. Biblically speaking, justice and righteousness are identical.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Social justice is not justice at all if it is unjust to take money from someone and give it to someone else,

If it is unjust to have money transferred from one person to another, then every time you make a purchase it is an unjust act, every time you pay the bills, every tax, every purchase, every time an employer pays their employees.

It would also mean that God is unjust, since God proscribed literal wealth redistribution in many different ways in His Torah. From the tithe, to various forms of monetary compensation. The Jubilee, too, must be considered utterly unjust as every Jubilee it was required that ownership of property was returned to the original owners, all debts were ended, and slaves received manumission.

Are you sure you want to argue that transferring money from one person to another is unjust?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Freth

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If it is unjust to have money transferred from one person to another, then every time you make a purchase it is an unjust act, every time you pay the bills, every tax, every purchase, every time an employer pays their employees.

It would also mean that God is unjust, since God proscribed literal wealth redistribution in many different ways in His Torah. From the tithe, to various forms of monetary compensation. The Jubilee, too, must be considered utterly unjust as every Jubilee it was required that ownership of property was returned to the original owners, all debts were ended, and slaves received manumission.

Are you sure you want to argue that transferring money from one person to another is unjust?

-CryptoLutheran

Theft, as in the commandment (Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal). It is unjust to steal.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Theft, as in the commandment (Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal). It is unjust to steal.

Bold of you to accuse God of commanding theft. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

So, again, are you sure this is the argument you want to be making?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Freth

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Bold of you to accuse God of commanding theft. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

So, again, are you sure this is the argument you want to be making?

-CryptoLutheran

You're talking about giving of your own free will. I'm talking about social justice being theft if it is taken without permission; i.e. not given. If social justice is taking then it is theft, which is against the law of God. That was the point. The other point made was that Jesus didn't take the rich young ruler's possessions, He asked him to give it of his own free will.
  • Giving: freely transfer the possession of (something) to (someone); hand over to.
  • Theft: the action or crime of stealing.
  • Stealing: the action or offense of taking another person's property without permission or legal right and without intending to return it; theft.
Examples:
 
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Clare73

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The difference between justice and righteousness is semantics.

Righteousness is a Germanic-based word; Justice is a Latin-based word.

There's no distinction between the two in Hebrew and Greek. Biblically speaking, justice and righteousness are identical.

-CryptoLutheran
But "justice" and "righteousness" are not 100% equivocal in NT usage (post #94).

"Just" and "righteous" would be equivocal.
 
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ViaCrucis

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But "justice" and "righteousness" are not 100% equivocal in NT usage (post #94).

"Just" and "righteous" would be equivocal.

You applied your own interpretive spin.

Let's take the word δικαιοσύνη (dikaiosune), looking at a broad range of lexicons "justice" is given as a definition of the word:


There's a reason we use the word "justification" and also then speak of "imputed righteousness"; because it is equally as valid to speak of "imputed justice"; to speak of how one is made right or just, before God; or speaking more properly in the context of Reformation theology--how one is declared right or just before God. Justification is God declaring a person righteous/just because of the imputed or reckoned justice/righteousness of Jesus; that I am not the one who has righteousness or justice of my own by which I am righteous and just before God--but Jesus is. And as an act of pure grace, appropriated to me through faith, God reckons--imputes--Christ's justice and righteousness to me.

To be righteous is to be just; to have righteousness is to have justice, to do righteousness is to do justice; and these are all synonymous with being right, to do what is right--that which is good and right. And biblically speaking, it is specifically in the context of God's revealed Law: God declares through the Law what is good and right--what is just or righteous; and thus the moral imperative is to do that which is good and right (just or righteous). God declares murder to be wrong, "Do not murder"; therefore the right thing to do is to not murder; if I murder I transgress the Divine Law that says "Do not murder".

There is this righteousness or justice; that is to be in a state of "rightness" before God which exists solely through the merciful declaration that I am forgiven and fully pardoned, and that I have imputed to me the justice of Christ by which I am just before God as a pure act of mercy. But there is also that justice, that righteousness, which I am commanded to exhibit to my neighbor, to exhibit here in the world toward others, in my community, in my family, to all God's creatures, to the whole of creation itself. And that is righteousness Coram Mundus, righteousness before the world, also called righteousness Coram Hominibus, righteousness before human beings.

The whole of justice toward others is wrapped up in this: That I am to act justly, rightly, in regard to and toward others. That I am called, as the Prophet Micah says, to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with God.

It is a just act that I feed the hungry, to deprive my neighbor of food is unjust. And it is never a hyper-individualistic personal justice; because I am not a moral island and the Bible doesn't pretend that people are moral islands--we have moral obligations by the simple fact that we exist in communities, in societies--that we exist as neighbors in neighborhoods: in families, friend-groups, villages, towns, cities, and states. I exist in relation with all other people with whom I share the earth, from the miniscule to the majuscule; from those with whom I share the same house, the same village, the same rivers, the same wells, the same trees, the same mountains all the way to the same planet. I exist within a complex interconnected web of humanity--and I have an obligation, from God, to be a good neighbor.

Social justice is a moral obligation that rests upon the individual Christian AND the whole Christian Church in her total catholic capacity as the worldwide community of disciples of Jesus; to exist in relation to the rest of the world bearing the commandments of God. And that means I cannot say that feeding the hungry is someone else's responsibility and wash my hands of it, neither can I say that it is only the responsibility of individuals and not the responsibility of communities at large--it is both. If I see a hungry man, I am to give him bread; and I am to also support social conditions which enable the hungry to have bread. It's not either-or; it's both-and. That is Divine Justice, as revealed in Scripture. And to which I am called to exhibit. Not because I will attain justice before God through my works; but because if I claim that I am a disciple of Jesus then that means exhibiting my faith through my works. There is no scenario where I can claim I am a Christian and then live lawlessly and in unrepentant sin without remorse: And to deny my neighbor of material good when I have the opportunity to do so, is transgression of the Divine Law.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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