Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

[Desk trauma]

not the children trained teachers is what we re talking about.

Half measures leaving children vulnerable.

 

[Aldebaran]

I think on average your cure would be worse than the disease in terms of deaths by firearm at schools.

How many lives do you believe were saved at the Catholic school today by the teachers being unarmed?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Perhaps if discussions about things didn't always devolve into "We gotta do something about all these guns!", then maybe you wouldn't hear replies about how gun bans aren't the answer, and never have been.

Well not banning them sure doesn't seem to be working out all that well. You're working harder to defend why people should be allowed to shoot kids in schools than you are to justify why kids should go to school without the fear that they're the ones the far right will be sacrificing on the altar of being able to own a gun.

As for your basically "More guns aren't the answer", response to my suggestion of arming teachers, then why on earth do the police get called to these shootings to stop the shooter if more guns aren't the answer. Are the police showing up unarmed? Or do they bring guns (AR15s no less!) to the scene and use them to stop the shooter?

What on earth are you talking about? When people call the police for help, they're not calling for guns, they're calling for a mass of specially trained individuals who's primary aim is the protection of public safety in emergency situations... The police go through months and in some cases years of specialized training, maintain continuing education on gun use, proving their fitness to own and use a gun, and when they discharge a gun they go through an entire process that shows that they discharged it rightly and ethically. The also have an entire crisis tree they use before discharging their weapons, usually as a late mid or last line response. This isn't Police Academy where people show up and give them weapons and tell them to go nuts. In a crisis they're not calling police because they're hoping for Officer Tackleberry to show up and start blasting away, they're hoping for people trained in public safety, evacuation, and police response.

What you're saying is as silly as saying "Well when a fire breaks out in a classroom they call the fire department, so clearly we should just hand teachers fire extinguishers and that's enough to stop fires."

 

[Aldebaran]

Half measures leaving children vulnerable.

And today we saw the results of no measures. Looks like they were still vulnerable. Is that acceptable?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Well not banning them sure doesn't seem to be working out all that well. You're working harder to defend why people should be allowed to shoot kids in schools than you are to justify why kids should go to school without the fear that they're the ones the far right will be sacrificing on the altar of being able to own a gun.


What on earth are you talking about? When people call the police for help, they're not calling for guns, they're calling for a mass of specially trained individuals who's primary aim is the protection of public safety in emergency situations... The police go through months and in some cases years of specialized training, maintain continuing education on gun use, proving their fitness to own and use a gun, and when they discharge a gun they go through an entire process that shows that they discharged it rightly and ethically. The also have an entire crisis tree they use before discharging their weapons, usually as a late mid or last line response. This isn't Police Academy where people show up and give them weapons and tell them to go nuts. In a crisis they're not calling police because they're hoping for Officer Tackleberry to show up and start blasting away, they're hoping for people trained in public safety, evacuation, and police response.

What you're saying is as silly as saying "Well when a fire breaks out in a classroom they call the fire department, so clearly we should just hand teachers fire extinguishers and that's enough to stop fires."

banning things has a poor track record anyway. In facts sometimes it just makes things worse/

 

[Tropical Wilds]

so you are saying that because something affects me would sedely mean that things change?

I don't know what "sedely" is.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

You said that very few people you knew oe had heard of wanted to ban all guns. I was pointing out that in general the ones they do want to ban the high mags and/or assault weapons account for the fewest gun deaths. If you want to save as many lives as possibile why would you want to ban the guns that account for the fewest number of deaths?

Again, you need to work with the other guy on your branding then get back to me.

 

[Desk trauma]

And today we saw the results of no measures. Looks like they were still vulnerable. Is that acceptable?

Kids getting shot at school? Yes that is acceptable here in the US. There will be a few days, maybe a few weeks, of hand wringing then that’s it. Rinse and repeat at the next one.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I don't know what "sedely" is.

suddenly sorry

 

[durangodawood]

How many lives do you believe were saved at the Catholic school today by the teachers being unarmed?

I sense a dire misunderstanding of statistics and rational analysis here.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

not the children trained teachers is what we are talking about.

So you think that teachers should be tainted to educate and serve as a police officer? Since that's two jobs with many years of specialized training, does that mean that the teachers should be paid the average of both professions? About $140k?

 

[Aldebaran]

Well not banning them sure doesn't seem to be working out all that well. You're working harder to defend why people should be allowed to shoot kids in schools than you are to justify why kids should go to school without the fear that they're the ones the far right will be sacrificing on the altar of being able to own a gun.

Misrepresentations like that are why you lose the argument.

What on earth are you talking about? When people call the police for help, they're not calling for guns, they're calling for a mass of specially trained individuals who's primary aim is the protection of public safety in emergency situations... The police go through months and in some cases years of specialized training, maintain continuing education on gun use, proving their fitness to own and use a gun, and when they discharge a gun they go through an entire process that shows that they discharged it rightly and ethically. The also have an entire crisis tree they use before discharging their weapons, usually as a late mid or last line response. This isn't Police Academy where people show up and give them weapons and tell them to go nuts. In a crisis they're not calling police because they're hoping for Officer Tackleberry to show up and start blasting away, they're hoping for people trained in public safety, evacuation, and police response.

In short, police are bringing more guns to solve a mass shooting problem.

What you're saying is as silly as saying "Well when a fire breaks out in a classroom they call the fire department, so clearly we should just hand teachers fire extinguishers and that's enough to stop fires."

It's certainly a good start. Fire extinguishers are all over the place in schools. If they weren't effective at putting out a fire, they wouldn't be mandated to be there and there would be more catastrophic fires at schools. I hardly ever hear of a school burning down during school hours.

 

[Aldebaran]

I sense a dire misunderstanding of statistics and rational analysis here.

And I notice a lack of an answer from you. Did you misunderstand the question?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

banning things has a poor track record anyway. In facts sometimes it just makes things worse/

They said, referencing nothing, citing nothing, and speaking abstractly of "things" and "worse."

 

[JosephZ]

Yet, by in large the ones the average person is looking to ban kill the fewest people overall the handguns ( which require the highest minimum age to purchase account for the most deaths, yet pepple do not generally talk about banning five to seven round handguns.

A ban on high-capacity magazines also applies to handguns. For example, my Springfield XD40 that I mentioned earlier came with two 12-round magazines. Magazines with higher capacities are available.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So you think that teachers should be tainted to educate and serve as a police officer? Since that's two jobs with many years of specialized training, does that mean that the teachers should be paid the average of both professions? About $140k?

It needs to be voluntary that is to say that a teacher should not be required to carry, however if they wish to do so and go through the proper classes I do not see the issue.

 

[durangodawood]

And I notice a lack of an answer from you. Did you misunderstand the question?

Its the wrong question for examining the effectiveness of the proposed remedy.

Its like me asking how many kids would be saved at this school if this kid couldnt get hold of a firearm.

 

[dogs4thewin]

They said, referencing nothing, citing nothing, and speaking abstractly of "things" and "worse."

Both alcohol and hard drugs should be prove that banning stuff has a poor track record ( as to what is mmeant by worse for example things were not as consistant so you had no idea what you were actually getting or how strong it would be.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Misrepresentations like that are why you lose the argument.

No, dead kids being less important than gun culture are why America always loses the argument.

In short, police are bringing more guns to solve a mass shooting problem.

In short, no, they're not. You have a really exceptionally poor outlook on the role of police if you think their primary purpose is to show up with guns.

It's certainly a good start. Fire extinguishers are all over the place in schools. If they weren't effective at putting out a fire, they wouldn't be mandated to be there and there would be more catastrophic fires at schools. I hardly ever hear of a school burning down during school hours.

It's not because of fire extinguishers It's because of the legislation and rules in place that prevent fires, and the acknowledgment that when one occurs the solution isn't to light another fire in another part of the room, and that all the fire extinguishers in the world won't stop a huge fire.

 

[Perpetual Student]

This is awful!

Thoughts and prayers are not enough.

What do you suggest on top of thoughts and prayers?